The Teaching Profession

[DGS49]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam (any state), medical board exams, the CPA exam, or the exams for getting a P.E. certification. It is just laughable.

(4). A Profession implicitly requires that you practice competently, or be subject to civil liability for MALPRACTICE, as well as being disbarred. A teacher who is a failure in a union-environment school district, will be back in the classroom year after year, albeit with more supervision and "help," but the actual number of public school teachers who are removed from the classroom because their students didn't learn anything is microscopic.

(5). Again - and very significantly - there is no teaching equivalent to the state Bar Association. The Bar Association (and its analogs in other Professions) creates rigorous and comprehensive requirements which must be met BEFORE you can enter into the practice, they require that practitioners stay up to date, they enforce not only competence but ethical standards, and they are in place for the benefit of the PUBLIC, not the practitioners. They are fully funded by the Professionals, through membership and other fees. The differences between a Professional association and, for example, the NEA, are profound and unbridgeable.

There are a lot of "professions" that people practice with great professionalism. Some of them require a lot of technical or industry-specific knowledge. Consider, engineers, chemists, designers, accountants, nurses, HR professionals, and so on. To say that these people are not "Professionals" is not an insult, it is merely a statement of fact. They go to school, learn some stuff, get a job, work hard, and make valuable contributions to their employers. Sometimes they even have to get a state license (e.g., beauticians).

But that is not what a Profession is, not what a Professional is. Teachers are not Professionals in any meaningful sense.

 

[Unkotare]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam ....

Go pass one then open your big, fat mouth.


Btw, I DO have a masters degree, dumbass. How does it feel to be wrong AGAIN? Seems to be your specialty.


Whatever it is that is making you feel so threatened by teachers, you need to get over it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam (any state), medical board exams, the CPA exam, or the exams for getting a P.E. certification. It is just laughable.

(4). A Profession implicitly requires that you practice competently, or be subject to civil liability for MALPRACTICE, as well as being disbarred. A teacher who is a failure in a union-environment school district, will be back in the classroom year after year, albeit with more supervision and "help," but the actual number of public school teachers who are removed from the classroom because their students didn't learn anything is microscopic.

(5). Again - and very significantly - there is no teaching equivalent to the state Bar Association. The Bar Association (and its analogs in other Professions) creates rigorous and comprehensive requirements which must be met BEFORE you can enter into the practice, they require that practitioners stay up to date, they enforce not only competence but ethical standards, and they are in place for the benefit of the PUBLIC, not the practitioners. They are fully funded by the Professionals, through membership and other fees. The differences between a Professional association and, for example, the NEA, are profound and unbridgeable.

There are a lot of "professions" that people practice with great professionalism. Some of them require a lot of technical or industry-specific knowledge. Consider, engineers, chemists, designers, accountants, nurses, HR professionals, and so on. To say that these people are not "Professionals" is not an insult, it is merely a statement of fact. They go to school, learn some stuff, get a job, work hard, and make valuable contributions to their employers. Sometimes they even have to get a state license (e.g., beauticians).

But that is not what a Profession is, not what a Professional is. Teachers are not Professionals in any meaningful sense.

You really cannot resist digging yourself deeper in that hole, can you?

Yes, I spent $6000 on a Master's degree that netted me a $700 a year pay raise.

True, there is no requirement to have a degree in the subject you teach, but you have to pass the certification exam and I know damn well you could not pass one without a degree in that area. I don't have a math degree because of residency requirements. I did have a degree in history also.

Your number 4 is simply not true except in a few isolated liberal dominated states.

My state has an Education Professional Standards Board. I guess you are unaware of that.

The NEA is a not a professional organization. It is a union, just like the Teamster's or United Auto Workers. You have been told that repeatedly. Why don't you learn?

My master's degree certifies me to be a school superintendent. Your law degree does not and never will.

 

[initforme]

So you want someone with a degree in chemistry making wads of money in the private sector to go teach for basically 1/4 the pay correct? Good luck. You are afraid to address this.

 

[OldLady]

When you look closely at PROFESSIONS (sometimes called "the learned professions"), there are a number of things that stand out.

Professions have a large body of esoteric knowledge, not known to the general public, which must be mastered in order to practice the Profession. And that knowledge is formally TESTED before one can practice in the Profession. If you don't pass the test, you CANNOT practice the Profession. For example, law, medicine, architecture, dentistry. Professionals must MAINTAIN their current knowledge of developments within the profession, usually through attending annual classes throughout their careers. This obligation never ends, as long as you want to retain your license.

Professions are self-regulated, and not controlled by the state. The Professional Associations are formed FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC, and not for the benefit of the practitioners. They guarantee TO THE PUBLIC that practitioners are competent, ethical, and up to date. The State can't make you a lawyer. Only the Bar Association can admit you to the practice of law. Same for medicine, professional accounting, professional engineering, and so forth. Obtaining a state license is NOT the same as entry into a Profession.

A professional can "hang up a shingle," and work as an independent entity. Although they sometimes work for a company or a government agency, their membership in the Profession is independent of that employment; they must keep their membership current and their education up to date. If they don't, they will lose their Professional license, and probably that job as well.

As for professional conduct and performing one's professional obligations, Professionals are held to a higher standard than anyone else. Most people who are sued for malfeasance "on the job" are held to a NEGLIGENCE standard - is the act or omission something that a reasonable person would have done or declined to do? A MALPRACTICE standard requires that a Professional conduct himself according to the CURRENT state of the professional art. He must know the latest laws and applicable court decisions, a doctor must know about pharmaceuticals, procedures, and diseases that may not even have existed when he graduated from Med school. A CPA must know the latest tax laws to the minute. It is a much higher standard than any non-Professional practitioner.

A Professional can be disbarred - prevented from working in the Profession - for malfeasance that does not rise to criminality. Improper accounting, for example.

In summary, there are not many professions. Law and medicine, obviously. Architecture. And when an accountant or an engineer chooses to be come a professional, he must meet educational standards, ethical standards, pass one hell of a test, and maintain professional competence throughout his career as a professional.

So, what about Teachers?

There is no objective body of knowledge about teaching that must be mastered. Teaching methods are in fact infinite in number, some successful and some not, and nobody is keeping track. Nor are teachers required to DEMONSTRATE any particular level of competence in their area of teaching expertise. (A semester of "student teaching"? Are you kidding?). Usually a certain number of college credits is sufficient, even in STEM areas, where you would expect competence to be absolutely mandatory.

There is no professional teaching organization that works to benefit the public, or guarantees that teachers are competent, ethical, or up to date. On the contrary, the major teaching organizations are akin to LABOR UNIONS, which function EXCLUSIVELY for the benefit of TEACHERS, and one could strongly argue, AGAINST THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC, by protecting lazy or incompetent teachers from ruin.

Teachers are NEVER held to a "malpractice" standard. Indeed, the very idea is laughable. ("My son can't do quadratic equations! I demand that the math teacher be dis-BARred!") They are not even held to a "negligence" standard, and can remain on the job year after year, leaving failure in their wake until their early retirement.

I think you get the idea. Teaching is NOT a Profession. Period. Many teachers display great "professionalism," in doing their work, but the sad fact is that such a standard is not required, and many teachers fall far short of that mark. Ironically, it is when teachers (and their representatives) are acting in the LEAST Professional manner (demanding more money and benefits for less work, year after year) that they DEMAND to be treated AND PAID as "professionals."

It is nauseating. A Good Teacher is a BLESSING to society, but Good Teachers don't have to DEMAND to be treated with respect; they just get it.

So you have no problem with teachers, just their unions? Try getting good teachers when they make even less than they do now. They invest five years of college to get their initial provisional certification; must teach under the supervision of a more experienced teacher for two years to get their full certification, and then it requires at least two college courses or equivalent educational training every five years to be recertified.
For what kind of return? Teachers don't do it for the money.
The national average starting teacher salary is $38,617, while the average teacher salary in America (non-starting) is $58,950.
Teacher Salaries in America

 

[OldLady]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam (any state), medical board exams, the CPA exam, or the exams for getting a P.E. certification. It is just laughable.

(4). A Profession implicitly requires that you practice competently, or be subject to civil liability for MALPRACTICE, as well as being disbarred. A teacher who is a failure in a union-environment school district, will be back in the classroom year after year, albeit with more supervision and "help," but the actual number of public school teachers who are removed from the classroom because their students didn't learn anything is microscopic.

(5). Again - and very significantly - there is no teaching equivalent to the state Bar Association. The Bar Association (and its analogs in other Professions) creates rigorous and comprehensive requirements which must be met BEFORE you can enter into the practice, they require that practitioners stay up to date, they enforce not only competence but ethical standards, and they are in place for the benefit of the PUBLIC, not the practitioners. They are fully funded by the Professionals, through membership and other fees. The differences between a Professional association and, for example, the NEA, are profound and unbridgeable.

There are a lot of "professions" that people practice with great professionalism. Some of them require a lot of technical or industry-specific knowledge. Consider, engineers, chemists, designers, accountants, nurses, HR professionals, and so on. To say that these people are not "Professionals" is not an insult, it is merely a statement of fact. They go to school, learn some stuff, get a job, work hard, and make valuable contributions to their employers. Sometimes they even have to get a state license (e.g., beauticians).

But that is not what a Profession is, not what a Professional is. Teachers are not Professionals in any meaningful sense.

You really cannot resist digging yourself deeper in that hole, can you?

Yes, I spent $6000 on a Master's degree that netted me a $700 a year pay raise.

True, there is no requirement to have a degree in the subject you teach, but you have to pass the certification exam and I know damn well you could not pass one without a degree in that area. I don't have a math degree because of residency requirements. I did have a degree in history also.

Your number 4 is simply not true except in a few isolated liberal dominated states.

My state has an Education Professional Standards Board. I guess you are unaware of that.

The NEA is a not a professional organization. It is a union, just like the Teamster's or United Auto Workers. You have been told that repeatedly. Why don't you learn?

My master's degree certifies me to be a school superintendent. Your law degree does not and never will.

I'm pretty sure I did have to get a B.A. in English Lit in order to be a h.s. English teacher. At least that's what they told me when I was in college.

 

[DGS49]

My God, why would I be jealous of "teachers"? I have a fucking doctorate. I'm a member of the bar. When employed I made more than any teacher in the state.

Those of you who are literate might note that I have not said a single word in this entire thread against teachers in general. I have merely pointed out the fact that teaching is not a "Profession," in any meaningful sense. I point it out because teachers' representatives and advocates frequently claim that teachers are Professionals when they demand "higher pay" or some other benefit or honor that they are seeking.

But it does a disservice to the true Professions, to the public, and to the English language to allow this falsehood to go unchallenged.

Aside from the extremely demanding hurdles to entering into a true Profession (few of which apply to being a public school teacher), Professionals do not join unions, they assume financial responsibility for their work product, they agree to being held to a high standard of ethical conduct, and will lose their certification if their are shown not to have lived up to that standard.

Teachers are wage slaves and government workers. Nothing to be ashamed of, but nothing to boast about either (I have been both). If a teacher wants to brag about being a great teacher, and back it up, I will join in the cheering section because a good teacher is a major community resource. I have several relatives and acquaintances in this category, including a brother who was the oldest "rookie" teacher in the history of the Los Angeles city school district. But making uncorroborated assertions in a forum like this...save your energy.

 

[Unkotare]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam ....

Go pass one then open your big, fat mouth.


Btw, I DO have a masters degree, dumbass. How does it feel to be wrong AGAIN? Seems to be your specialty.


Whatever it is that is making you feel so threatened by teachers, you need to get over it.

.

 

[Unkotare]

.....

Professions have a large body of ..... knowledge, not known to the general public, which must be mastered in order to practice the Profession. And that knowledge is formally TESTED before one can practice in the Profession. If you don't pass the test, you CANNOT practice the Profession. ....

Like the teaching profession.

.

 

[Unkotare]

Someone is a little over-excited about learning a new word, "esoteric," but doesn't know how to apply it correctly.

There are, of course, a series of tests required to be certified and licensed to teach. Teachers are, of course, required to take continuing education courses throughout their careers and to be evaluated on a very regular basis. The OP does, of course, have a raging hard-on about teachers for some reason. Maybe he got a well-deserved beating from one as a child (or as an adult) and has never gotten over it. In any case, he need not feel so threatened.

Teachers are educated, trained, tested, and constantly evaluated professionals.

...

 

[regent]

I think the average citizen knows little of the teaching business, and yet they are aware of what schools they attended and even some teacher's names. At one time schools were part of a district and when the citizens of the district voted in a new board, teachers were fired in wholesale lots and so tenure came into being replacing the spoils system.

 

[mgh80]

(1). Teachers are generally not required to have Masters degrees. Any state with such a requirement would be an outlier. (I suspect the poster who goes by the name of "Unkotare" does not have a Masters; he surely would have mentioned it). Most states have a requirement for additional COLLEGE (not necessarily GRADUATE) credits in order to get permanent certification, and many colleges profit from this requirement by offering ersatz "Masters" degrees for just a few credits more than are required for permanent certification, in order to induce teachers to come there for their supplementary credits. For the teachers, a Masters degree usually adds to their compensation. But these are bullshit Masters degrees. There is no thesis, no comprehensive exams. Academic rigor? Are you kidding? Mainly "methods" courses.

(2). In no state are K-12 teachers required to have a Bachelors degree in their subject area - not that that, by itself, would guarantee anything like "professional" competency. The general rule is, a degree in "education," with some number of credits in the actual subject area. The dearth of math and science teachers with MATH and SCIENCE (B.S.) degrees is a national disgrace, made worse by the artificial barriers that are in place to prevent mid-career scientists and engineers from becoming teachers. In any rational world, the preference would be for a Chemistry teacher being someone with a Chemistry degree, and a couple courses in "education," rather than the other way around.

(3). A professional-level examination in ENGLISH? Social Studies? Are you kidding me? There is nothing that could possibly be on such an exam that would be even remotely comparable to the scope of knowledge required to successfully take the Bar Exam (any state), medical board exams, the CPA exam, or the exams for getting a P.E. certification. It is just laughable.

(4). A Profession implicitly requires that you practice competently, or be subject to civil liability for MALPRACTICE, as well as being disbarred. A teacher who is a failure in a union-environment school district, will be back in the classroom year after year, albeit with more supervision and "help," but the actual number of public school teachers who are removed from the classroom because their students didn't learn anything is microscopic.

(5). Again - and very significantly - there is no teaching equivalent to the state Bar Association. The Bar Association (and its analogs in other Professions) creates rigorous and comprehensive requirements which must be met BEFORE you can enter into the practice, they require that practitioners stay up to date, they enforce not only competence but ethical standards, and they are in place for the benefit of the PUBLIC, not the practitioners. They are fully funded by the Professionals, through membership and other fees. The differences between a Professional association and, for example, the NEA, are profound and unbridgeable.

There are a lot of "professions" that people practice with great professionalism. Some of them require a lot of technical or industry-specific knowledge. Consider, engineers, chemists, designers, accountants, nurses, HR professionals, and so on. To say that these people are not "Professionals" is not an insult, it is merely a statement of fact. They go to school, learn some stuff, get a job, work hard, and make valuable contributions to their employers. Sometimes they even have to get a state license (e.g., beauticians).

But that is not what a Profession is, not what a Professional is. Teachers are not Professionals in any meaningful sense.

1) You're way off and ignorant.

2) In almost every state (if not every) there is an alternative certification program. Meaning that individuals who have majors other than education can absolutely become teachers. Yes MANY schools/districts prefer this in a way, because it makes individuals more balanced and outside experience is always a plus. I did and if you saw my certification and somebody who has an ed major-you wouldn't be able to say which one was which.

3) I guarantee you that you'd most likely fail an AP lang and/or AP lit exam.

4) I have NO TENURE and will NEVER receive it (and I"m ok with that)...try again.

5) Nobody here is suggesting that nurses, engineers, etc. aren't a profession-so your entire point is off topic and irrelevant.

 

[Kaykan]

You keep making up lies about teachers. It's either you are stupid or being deceitful. Which is it?

His kid was just suspended.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You keep making up lies about teachers. It's either you are stupid or being deceitful. Which is it?

His kid was just suspended.

Nah! I think he just likes being an ignorant asshole.

 

[Kaykan]

Nah! I think he just likes being an ignorant asshole.

I'm too lazy to look up his previous posts, so I'll take your word for it.

 

[DGS49]

Notice the non-responsive responses by the people here who say they are teachers. Most are on the order of "I know a guy who..." or "I'm better than that." Would it be unkind to say that these are stupid, irrelevant responses?

"mgh80," above is Exhibit A. My God, I hope he is not a teacher.

(1). Idiotic.
(2). Irrelevant. I stated that huge barriers are established in almost every state, to prevent mid-career professionals (small 'p') from being teachers. For example, a year with no wages, which student teaching. I did not claim that it is impossible to become a teacher mid-career, only that the hurdles are basically insurmountable, if you require money to live.
(3). Painfully irrelevant and stupid. The posters has no idea what my breadth of knowledge is, and even if true, what would that have to do with what I'm saying in this thread?
(4). Again, so what? What does that have to do with this thread?
(5). I could write a short pamphlet to cover all the ways why this point is illogical, irrelevant, and generally stupid.

Again, I HOPE this person is not a public school teacher, but I fear my hopes are in vain.

Jesus.

 

[Unkotare]

And the reason for this troll thread is...?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Notice the non-responsive responses by the people here who say they are teachers. Most are on the order of "I know a guy who..." or "I'm better than that." Would it be unkind to say that these are stupid, irrelevant responses?

"mgh80," above is Exhibit A. My God, I hope he is not a teacher.

(1). Idiotic.
(2). Irrelevant. I stated that huge barriers are established in almost every state, to prevent mid-career professionals (small 'p') from being teachers. For example, a year with no wages, which student teaching. I did not claim that it is impossible to become a teacher mid-career, only that the hurdles are basically insurmountable, if you require money to live.
(3). Painfully irrelevant and stupid. The posters has no idea what my breadth of knowledge is, and even if true, what would that have to do with what I'm saying in this thread?
(4). Again, so what? What does that have to do with this thread?
(5). I could write a short pamphlet to cover all the ways why this point is illogical, irrelevant, and generally stupid.

Again, I HOPE this person is not a public school teacher, but I fear my hopes are in vain.

Jesus.

So what are these barriers? I would lay odds you cannot explain yourself and are doing this as another failed attempt to justify your indefensible hatred.

 

[DGS49]

Tory, are you serious?

YOU HAVE TO QUIT YOUR JOB FOR A YEAR TO TAKE "EDUCATION" CLASSES, AND STUDENT TEACH! Is that enough of a barrier to you? If you are 35 years old living a normal life, IT IS NOT PRACTICABLE!

Consider: If "Albert Einstein, PhD," wanted to retire from government and be a public school physics teacher in New Jersey, he would not be "qualified," and would have to take a year off, without pay, to jump though the appropriate hoops and be considered for such a position.

Now do you get it?

By comparison, when I decided to become an attorney I enrolled in the 4-year night program at Duquesne law school, completed it, took the Bar Exam, passed it, and WAS A LAWYER. Never had to quit my day-job. But if I had wanted to become a Social Studies teacher in a public school, I would have had to quit my job, and go a year without income (while paying college tuition), before I would be qualified.

Furthermore, there is no provision in teacher CBA's to permit a mid-career new teacher to earn more than a recent-grad rookie teacher, based on superior knowledge and qualifications. THEY DO NOT WANT PEOPLE COMING INTO TEACHING FROM ANOTHER CAREER. It upsets the apple cart.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Tory, are you serious?

YOU HAVE TO QUIT YOUR JOB FOR A YEAR TO TAKE "EDUCATION" CLASSES, AND STUDENT TEACH! Is that enough of a barrier to you? If you are 35 years old living a normal life, IT IS NOT PRACTICABLE!

Consider: If "Albert Einstein, PhD," wanted to retire from government and be a public school physics teacher in New Jersey, he would not be "qualified," and would have to take a year off, without pay, to jump though the appropriate hoops and be considered for such a position.

Now do you get it?

By comparison, when I decided to become an attorney I enrolled in the 4-year night program at Duquesne law school, completed it, took the Bar Exam, passed it, and WAS A LAWYER. Never had to quit my day-job. But if I had wanted to become a Social Studies teacher in a public school, I would have had to quit my job, and go a year without income (while paying college tuition), before I would be qualified.

Furthermore, there is no provision in teacher CBA's to permit a mid-career new teacher to earn more than a recent-grad rookie teacher, based on superior knowledge and qualifications. THEY DO NOT WANT PEOPLE COMING INTO TEACHING FROM ANOTHER CAREER. It upsets the apple cart.

Is there no end to your ignorance? Alt certification ring a bell? I was working for At&T when I became a teacher. I taught during the day and took my education classes at night for 18 months. I never did student teaching because I was already in the classroom.

You are a bag of excuses made of lies.