The Tea Party has become the Article V movement

Discussion in 'Tea Party' started by Votto, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. emilynghiem

    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2010
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    Dear Picaro
    I'd like to understand IN DEPTH where your thinking is coming from,
    so we can learn to communicate past this barrier. I know other people
    who also see the Constitution as arbitrary, diluted and lost to political forces,
    and not having authority to compel anyone to enforce these laws.

    I see that approach similar to not relying on math, because it's been hijacked by elitists
    who use it for a bunch of theorizing with no practical application or meaning.
    But that's just ONE LEVEL of math.

    The BASIC MATH applies to all transactions we do.
    I want to focus on where NATURAL LAWS are universal
    to people and DO govern and predict our democratic process.

    Can we focus there and find common language
    that DOESN'T depend on the areas that have been hijacked
    and distorted outside Constitutional laws and limits.

    I read your post/points that especially with Lincoln,
    the Constitutional laws and limits were overridden.
    When Lincoln ordered presses to be burned down
    and journalists hung, these were acts of war, not
    civilian peace time. So the same rules did not apply
    during war, when citizens were declared and treated
    as treasonous foreign enemies WITHOUT due process.
    In wartime, enemy combatants are not given the same
    due process as with civilians under civil and criminal laws.

    The problem today is similar, where people and leaders
    do not wait for due process to start treating other people
    and groups "as enemies" and disparage their rights. They
    are declared wrong and judged without "due process."
    Then actions are taken politically to further overstep those
    people's rights, justified for political expedience. So this is
    more like political warfare and not following laws of
    due process and democratic procedures. Just people abusing
    party and media to act as "judge jury and executioner" with no
    limits or separation of powers. This reaction is caused by
    THOSE people fearing rights and laws have been abridged,
    or are threatened with oppression. So it's a vicious cycle.

    Picaro I don't see how else we can break this cycle of
    abuse and oppression EXCEPT we agree to adhere to
    UNIVERSAL principles and process of democratic negotiations.

    That's why I urge everyone to respect basic principles of
    "natural laws" that define the democratic process between people.

    This is naturally occurring by way of our human nature
    as individuals who NATURALLY use our "free speech" and
    "right to petition/object" to try to address and resolve obstructions
    to our right to peace/security, freedom/free choice and justice.

    Picaro what part of these "natural laws" do you NOT BELIEVE
    exist or apply to all people?

    Aren't these common/universal principles people already follow
    by our nature: freedom of speech or of the press, right to assemble
    and to petition for redress of grievances, right of defense to protect
    ourselves from being deprived of life, liberty, property or exercise of
    our beliefs and free choice/will as indivduals to pursue what we
    want, need and believe in.

    Why isn't it clear that the purpose and process in the Constitution,
    especially the Bill of Rights, is to spell out and define this process
    so this can be PROTECTED for individuals?

    Even if violations occur, as you point out they have gotten way out of hand,
    we still APPLY the same Constitutional/democratic process to
    REDRESS THOSE GRIEVANCES and protect our individual and public interest
    from abuse and oppression by collective influences which these laws
    hold in check.

    Are you saying that because it's so far out of control there's no way to check the abuses?

    It's because we are divided that's why we aren't effective in stopping abuses.

    But by UNITING in agreement on these principles, that's what puts the abuses back in check.

    Picaro all the people making up the collective corporate interests and abusers of power
    are STILL "individuals" GOVERNED by the same natural laws and principles built into
    our human nature by CONSCIENCE.

    The way the CONSCIENCE responds is to unified agreements, invoking public
    authority of laws, then everyone is compelled to follow where we all AGREE.

    It is ESSENTIAL we come to points and principles of AGREEMENT.

    Like parents running a household, and have to STAND IN AGREEMENT
    or the kids run wild and take advantage of them bickering to get away with whatever.
    Or like a group of firefighters having to fight a blaze, and must work as a concerted TEAM.
    If they all give up or can't work together, SURE, the blaze spirals out of control.

    Picaro it's not that we the people don't have the power to stop the abuses.
    The problem is WE DO have this authority.
    So if we DON'T unify and invoke it, then nothing gets done.
    Govt is really waiting on us, we the people to get our
    act together, resolve issues to put together a game plan,
    and tell them what to do.

    If we don't, that's where Govt runs amok, like kids with
    a credit card and car keys. We have to take back responsibility
    instead of leaving the keys and card on the counter for anyone to run off with.

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