The Story Of Jesus Between Islam And Christianity

Confident

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Nov 4, 2005
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The Christian belief about Jesus is that he is the only-begotten Son of God or God Himself, who died on the cross to save humans from Original Sin. Muslims hold that there is no such thing as Original Sin. So God had no reason to become a human and die on the cross. Even if there were something called Original Sin, Muslims do not see how God could be so helpless as to atone for that sin by dying on the cross. The Christians would answer:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).


Did God really love the world so much… so much that He decided to sacrifice even His son, His only begotten son, to save the world from Original Sin? Christians would say, Yes.

On the other hand, Muslims would insist in the first place, that God is One and One Only, and, therefore, He didn’t have a son. Second, as God is Just, He would not punish the innocent to save the sinners. Third, the so-called Original Sin cannot be such a problem for the Almighty God that He is compelled to sacrifice “His own Son.” He could very well cancel that sin or He could simply demand an atonement from the sinful or at least ask for sincere repentance from them. Indeed, there was no need for God to subject His Son to the terrible torture he is said to have undergone, as portrayed in Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, for instance.

In fact, there were early Christians who did not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus. For instance, the Basilidians believed that someone else was crucified in his place. The names of Simon of Cyrene and even Judas Iscariot are heard in this context.

In the Bible:
Ti 6:16 " Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

and:
De 32:40 " For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever."

and:
Ga 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree".

and:
De 24:16 " The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."


As for the Qur’an, it speaks of how Allah cleared Jesus of the disbelief of his people. It says what means:
{[And remember] when Allah said: O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself, and cleanse you of those who disbelieve; and I will make those who follow [you] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to me you will [all] return, and I will judge between you as to that wherein you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieve I will punish them with severe torment in this world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.} (Aal `Imran 3:55-56)

Thus, Allah raised Jesus up to Heaven, and so he was saved from an accursed death on the cross, in contrast to what his enemies and even his self-styled “followers” alleged. It was the plan of the enemies of Jesus to crucify him, but Allah foiled their plan. So to believe in his death by crucifixion means to believe that those unbelievers were successful against God’s plan. But assuredly they could not crucify Jesus the Messenger of Allah. The Qur’an says what means:
{And their saying [is] ‘we slew the Messiah, Jesus Son of Mary, Allah’s messenger’ – They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them. And those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture. For of a surety they slew him not; but Allah took him up to Himself. Allah is Almighty [and] All-Wise. And there is none of the people of the Book [the Jews and Christians] but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.} (An-Nisaa’ 4:157-159)

We Muslims believe in all the prophets of God and honor and respect them alike; we do not make any distinction between one and another of them. Muslims believe Jesus Christ to be one of the great prophets of God and hold that all prophets are brothers and that their religion is the same, namely, Islam (or unconditional submission to Allah). Allah says in the Qur’an what means:
{He [Allah] has ordained for you the same religion as that which He ordained to Noah, and that which We inspired in you [Muhammad], and that which We ordained to Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and make no divisions therein. To those who worship other things than Allah, dreadful is that to which you call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He will, and guides to Himself him who turns [in repentance to Him].}(Az-Zukhruf 42:13).....

Dears: This thread is for Knowledge not for examination, you are you and I am me, and perhaps....the twain will meet..
 
Confident said:
---------------

The Christian belief about Jesus is that he is the only-begotten Son of God or God Himself, who died on the cross to save humans from Original Sin. Muslims hold that there is no such thing as Original Sin. So God had no reason to become a human and die on the cross. Even if there were something called Original Sin, Muslims do not see how God could be so helpless as to atone for that sin by dying on the cross. The Christians would answer:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).


Did God really love the world so much… so much that He decided to sacrifice even His son, His only begotten son, to save the world from Original Sin? Christians would say, Yes.

On the other hand, Muslims would insist in the first place, that God is One and One Only, and, therefore, He didn’t have a son. Second, as God is Just, He would not punish the innocent to save the sinners. Third, the so-called Original Sin cannot be such a problem for the Almighty God that He is compelled to sacrifice “His own Son.” He could very well cancel that sin or He could simply demand an atonement from the sinful or at least ask for sincere repentance from them. Indeed, there was no need for God to subject His Son to the terrible torture he is said to have undergone, as portrayed in Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, for instance.

In fact, there were early Christians who did not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus. For instance, the Basilidians believed that someone else was crucified in his place. The names of Simon of Cyrene and even Judas Iscariot are heard in this context.

In the Bible:
Ti 6:16 " Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

and:
De 32:40 " For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever."

and:
Ga 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree".

and:
De 24:16 " The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."


As for the Qur’an, it speaks of how Allah cleared Jesus of the disbelief of his people. It says what means:
{[And remember] when Allah said: O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself, and cleanse you of those who disbelieve; and I will make those who follow [you] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to me you will [all] return, and I will judge between you as to that wherein you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieve I will punish them with severe torment in this world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.} (Aal `Imran 3:55-56)

Thus, Allah raised Jesus up to Heaven, and so he was saved from an accursed death on the cross, in contrast to what his enemies and even his self-styled “followers” alleged. It was the plan of the enemies of Jesus to crucify him, but Allah foiled their plan. So to believe in his death by crucifixion means to believe that those unbelievers were successful against God’s plan. But assuredly they could not crucify Jesus the Messenger of Allah. The Qur’an says what means:
{And their saying [is] ‘we slew the Messiah, Jesus Son of Mary, Allah’s messenger’ – They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them. And those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture. For of a surety they slew him not; but Allah took him up to Himself. Allah is Almighty [and] All-Wise. And there is none of the people of the Book [the Jews and Christians] but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.} (An-Nisaa’ 4:157-159)

We Muslims believe in all the prophets of God and honor and respect them alike; we do not make any distinction between one and another of them. Muslims believe Jesus Christ to be one of the great prophets of God and hold that all prophets are brothers and that their religion is the same, namely, Islam (or unconditional submission to Allah). Allah says in the Qur’an what means:
{He [Allah] has ordained for you the same religion as that which He ordained to Noah, and that which We inspired in you [Muhammad], and that which We ordained to Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and make no divisions therein. To those who worship other things than Allah, dreadful is that to which you call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He will, and guides to Himself him who turns [in repentance to Him].}(Az-Zukhruf 42:13).....

Dears: This thread is for Knowledge not for examination, you are you and I am me, and perhaps....the twain will meet..


Thanks for the information but does it have to be so big?
 
So basically we're all supposed to believe the one man who wrote all that jibberish hundreds of years after the fact and disregard the account of several witnesses of Jesus's life and death. No thanks, 'friend".
 
Confident said:
Thank you too, it's so big because it's so important..

Dude people will read it...just tone the text down. It's annoying. If you keep this shit up I'm gonna burn every fucking prayer mat I ever see for the rest of my life.
 
Powerman said:
Dude people will read it...just tone the text down. It's annoying. If you keep this shit up I'm gonna burn every fucking prayer mat I ever see for the rest of my life.

Powerman!!
don't do it please!! :splat: , just read the last 3 lines..
 
Confident said:
Did God really love the world so much… so much that He decided to sacrifice even His son, His only begotten son, to save the world from Original Sin? Christians would say, Yes.

On the other hand, Muslims would insist in the first place, that God is One and One Only, and, therefore, He didn’t have a son.
God IS only one. Since God created the universe, including the laws of physics, He is not subject to them. He can be in more than one place at a time. Jesus is God is Jesus. He is called the "only begotten son" because he was the only man born of a woman to be created supernaturally.

Second, as God is Just, He would not punish the innocent to save the sinners.
Since God is just, He demands punishment for the sinners. We all deserve to be destroyed. But, since God is perfectly loving as well as perfectly just, He Himself took our punishment (death).

We were created to be His children. It broke His heart that we would choose to turn away from Him. But iniquity must be dealt with. So because of His love for us, and His choice to create us with a free will (knowing we would sin), He became injustice, the innocent sacrifice. He would not inflict the punishment upon another, if one could be found to be innocent. He took it upon Himself.
Third, the so-called Original Sin cannot be such a problem for the Almighty God that He is compelled to sacrifice “His own Son.” He could very well cancel that sin or He could simply demand an atonement from the sinful or at least ask for sincere repentance from them. Indeed, there was no need for God to subject His Son to the terrible torture he is said to have undergone, as portrayed in Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, for instance.
God was not compelled to sacrifice Himself. He chose it freely out of love. What could atone for the sins of the sinful? Nothing. God created a perfect world, and every one of us has deviated from perfection in some way. There is no atonement but destruction. He laid down the rules in the very beginning, before the very first people chose to sin. This was His plan for atonement, that He would pay the price so that He could have children who freely choose to love Him.

In fact, there were early Christians who did not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus. For instance, the Basilidians believed that someone else was crucified in his place. The names of Simon of Cyrene and even Judas Iscariot are heard in this context.
I don't think the Jews at the time would have been fooled by an imposter on the cross. A crucifixion was a very public death. Roman records show that Jesus was crucified. This was done to satisfy the Jewish church leaders and hopefully to avert a riot. Crucifying the wrong guy would likely have caused a riot of the Jews.


Thus, Allah raised Jesus up to Heaven, and so he was saved from an accursed death on the cross, in contrast to what his enemies and even his self-styled “followers” alleged. It was the plan of the enemies of Jesus to crucify him, but Allah foiled their plan. So to believe in his death by crucifixion means to believe that those unbelievers were successful against God’s plan. But assuredly they could not crucify Jesus the Messenger of Allah.
They couldn't crucify Jesus without His consent. When the guards came to capture Jesus, they all collapsed as He identified Himself. They were helpless against Him. He said, "No man takes my life. But I lay it down." No enemy can stand against the Lord God. God's plan for atonement was successful, and those who put Him to death only played into His plan. This is why He forgave them on the cross, saying they knew not what they did.
 
mom4 said:
God IS only one. Since God created the universe, including the laws of physics, He is not subject to them. He can be in more than one place at a time. Jesus is God is Jesus. He is called the "only begotten son" because he was the only man born of a woman to be created supernaturally.

LOL that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

Since God is just, He demands punishment for the sinners. We all deserve to be destroyed. But, since God is perfectly loving as well as perfectly just, He Himself took our punishment (death).

Speak for yourself on the deserving to be destroyed part. Besides if God is the one who created us to be sinners then maybe he is the lunatic that needs to be destroyed. Don't think so little of yourself and the rest of humankind. This is borderline lunacy.



We were created to be His children. It broke His heart that we would choose to turn away from Him. But iniquity must be dealt with. So because of His love for us, and His choice to create us with a free will (knowing we would sin), He became injustice, the innocent sacrifice. He would not inflict the punishment upon another, if one could be found to be innocent. He took it upon Himself.

Broke his heart? He didn't have to put the fucking tree there in the first place. And why would he creating a talking snake. Wait, what the fuck are we talking about here. This is sillyness.

God was not compelled to sacrifice Himself. He chose it freely out of love. What could atone for the sins of the sinful? Nothing. God created a perfect world, and every one of us has deviated from perfection in some way. There is no atonement but destruction. He laid down the rules in the very beginning, before the very first people chose to sin. This was His plan for atonement, that He would pay the price so that He could have children who freely choose to love Him.

This is just silly. If God is all powerful and perfect you would think he could come up with a better solution than committing temporary suicide. The idea is utterly absurd. Jesus the man had less choice than you think.

I don't think the Jews at the time would have been fooled by an imposter on the cross. A crucifixion was a very public death. Roman records show that Jesus was crucified. This was done to satisfy the Jewish church leaders and hopefully to avert a riot. Crucifying the wrong guy would likely have caused a riot of the Jews.

Is this supposed to prove anything?


They couldn't crucify Jesus without His consent. When the guards came to capture Jesus, they all collapsed as He identified Himself. They were helpless against Him. He said, "No man takes my life. But I lay it down." No enemy can stand against the Lord God. God's plan for atonement was successful, and those who put Him to death only played into His plan. This is why He forgave them on the cross, saying they knew not what they did.

LOL can't crucify someone without their consent? Are you fucking nuts??? No one in the history of the world including Jesus would be crucified if they acutally had a fucking choice in the matter. You can go fuck yourself with a John Smoltz bobble head doll if you actually believe something that fucking stupid.
 
Powerman said:
LOL can't crucify someone without their consent? Are you fucking nuts??? No one in the history of the world including Jesus would be crucified if they acutally had a fucking choice in the matter. You can go fuck yourself with a John Smoltz bobble head doll if you actually believe something that fucking stupid.

I don't believe a word that she wrote either, but your response is below contempt. If you can't represent yourself any better than this, perhaps it's time for the mods to send you on a permanent vacation.
 
theHawk said:
So basically we're all supposed to believe the one man who wrote all that jibberish hundreds of years after the fact and disregard the account of several witnesses of Jesus's life and death. No thanks, 'friend".

hahhaha, exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this gibberish.

How many people wrote the Koran?

How many wrote the OT?

How many witnesses were there to the life of Jesus and the crusifixtion?
How many apostles were there?

I use the same standard to dimiss Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. ONe author, not officialy Gods word to me.

I mean, ANYBODY can write things down, or say them, and claim its a revelation from God. The only difference wiht Mohamed is he managed to get a lot of stupid Arabs to believe it.
 
Powerman said:
Dude people will read it...just tone the text down. It's annoying. If you keep this shit up I'm gonna burn every fucking prayer mat I ever see for the rest of my life.

This from the most non annoying person on the internet.
 
Powerman said:
LOL that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life..

Yet its still true.



Powerman said:
Speak for yourself on the deserving to be destroyed part. Besides if God is the one who created us to be sinners then maybe he is the lunatic that needs to be destroyed. Don't think so little of yourself and the rest of humankind. This is borderline lunacy..

Yet what she said is still true.





Powerman said:
Broke his heart? He didn't have to put the fucking tree there in the first place. And why would he creating a talking snake. Wait, what the fuck are we talking about here. This is sillyness..

tsk tsk, such language, really now.



Powerman said:
This is just silly. If God is all powerful and perfect you would think he could come up with a better solution than committing temporary suicide. The idea is utterly absurd. Jesus the man had less choice than you think..

maybe silly, but still true, nontheless.



Powerman said:
Is this supposed to prove anything?.

Just that its true.






Powerman said:
LOL can't crucify someone without their consent? Are you fucking nuts??? No one in the history of the world including Jesus would be crucified if they acutally had a fucking choice in the matter. You can go fuck yourself with a John Smoltz bobble head doll if you actually believe something that fucking stupid.

tsk, tsk, such language. really now, I think you need an enema. Do you take meds to control your temper? And I do hope you dont have kids, if you do, please, let someone adopt them, they would deserve better than to grow up in such a bitter hostile enviorment.

Something serious must have happened to you in your childhood, such hostility is not normal, and is not healthy, SEEK HELP. Seriously.
 
MissileMan said:
I don't believe a word that she wrote either, but your response is below contempt. If you can't represent yourself any better than this, perhaps it's time for the mods to send you on a permanent vacation.

Eh I was just making some jokes to expose the hilarity.... but whatver makes you happy buddy.
 
Blah blah blah, Christians ceremonially eat the flesh of their god and Muslims practice a religion based on the word of a desert pirate (i.e. mirauder) Both are equally nuts. Happy Chrismakkuh bitches!
 

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