The Stonewalling Has Begun!

[Orange_Juice]

So much for openess and wanting to move on with this! John McCain must be thrilled! A few more days of this and most Americans will be asking, "John who?"

Talking Points Memo

Palin Goes to War with Investigation
In one of the stories yesterday about Palin's hiring of a lawyer -- which we now find out she's having the state of Alaska pay for -- I noted that her new counsel, Thomas Van Flein, asked the lead investigator in the case to turn over all witness statements and documents produced so far in the probe. That struck me not as a good-faith request but rather an effort to get into a fight over process and thus gum up the investigation until after the election.

And sure enough, today's Anchorage Daily News provides plenty of evidence that that is what's happening in spades. Though to this point Palin has said she would cooperate fully with the investigation, Van Flein is now challenging the standing of the entire inquiry. He claims that any investigation should be handled not by the legislature but by the state Personnel Board which, conveniently, is made up of the governor's appointees.

Van Flein is also charging that the state senator charged with overseeing the investigation is on a partisan witch-hunt. "Our concern is that Hollis French turns into Ken Starr and uses public money to pursue a political vendetta rather than truly pursue an honest inquiry into an alleged ethics issue," Van Flein told the ADN. To which French rather persuasively responded that the charge of partisanship rang at least a little hollow since the investigation was instigated and authorized by a committee dominated by Republicans (though it's only fair to note that Palin is noted beloved by all Republicans in the state).

And finally that deposition that the investigator is trying to arrange with Gov. Palin? Seems she may be too busy running for vice president to make time for that. From the ADN ...

 

[Silence]

Van Flein is also charging that the state senator charged with overseeing the investigation is on a partisan witch-hunt. "Our concern is that Hollis French turns into Ken Starr and uses public money to pursue a political vendetta rather than truly pursue an honest inquiry into an alleged ethics issue," Van Flein told the ADN.

wait, did he just openly admit that Ken Star used public money to pursue a political vendetta against Bill Clinton?

 

[midcan5]

If one thing is obvious today, it is given McCain's decision to select Palin as VP, he is not qualified to be president. We have in office now a man who cannot make sensible decisions, why would anyone want another? Sad that so many stretch their partisan values so far they can defend so weak a selection. Surely another right wingnut was available with less baggage.



A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

 

[SwingVoter]

Sad that so many stretch their partisan values so far they can defend so weak a selection.

If you're so into gov't leaving us alone, how can you "stretch" your values and support someone who wants gov't increasing taxes and regulations over privately-earned income?

 

[Silence]

If you're so into gov't leaving us alone, how can you "stretch" your values and support someone who wants gov't increasing taxes and regulations over privately-earned income?

what?

didnt Bush increase regulations and taxes over privately-earned income? oh wait, no that's right he cut taxes for the richest people so it's okay.

These arguments fall short, especially when all evidence to the contrary is so easily accessible.

We are in debt up to our eyeballs. How do you propose we pay down that debt if not by increasing taxes? Do you want to pass that along to our children and their children and generations beyond that? I don't. I'd rather pay a little more now to ensure that my daughter and future generations aren't paying for the mistakes and waste of this generation.

 

[SwingVoter]

How do you propose we pay down that debt if not by increasing taxes?

Why not eliminate all the increases in spending we got under W? He's been a borrow-and-spend liberal, and raised fed spending as a share of GDP to a level 3 pts higher than it was under Clinton.

Ending Iraq war, scaling back Medicare Part D, reducing big brother government agencies like Dept of Ed, DEA, EPA, and all the alphabet agencies full of career bureaucrats surfing the web all day. Also, reducing troop presence in Korea and Germany. Add that up, you get about $300 billion.

Taxing capital gains, small businesses, dividends, and crushing people who risk capital, as Obama wants to do, is not only a major intrusion into people's private affairs, it makes no sense economically, especially when it will only pay for W's spending spree.

 

[jillian]

Why not eliminate all the increases in spending we got under W? He's been a borrow-and-spend liberal, and raised fed spending as a share of GDP to a level 3 pts higher than it was under Clinton.

Ending Iraq war, scaling back Medicare Part D, reducing big brother government agencies like Dept of Ed, DEA, EPA, and all the alphabet agencies full of career bureaucrats surfing the web all day. Also, reducing troop presence in Korea and Germany. Add that up, you get about $300 billion.

Taxing capital gains, small businesses, dividends, and crushing people who risk capital, as Obama wants to do, is not only a major intrusion into people's private affairs, it makes no sense economically, especially when it will only pay for W's spending spree.

psssst... just a reality check, you AREN'T a swing voter. you're firmly in right wing camp if you think Bush didn't absolutely and to a T give the right what they wanted. Bush wasn't a borrow and spend "liberal". The right doesn't get to dissociate themselves from the same policies their party has outright supported since Reagan was president.This is just your hens coming home to roost because it wasn't curtailed by a democratic congress for 6 years. This is what they worked for... to bankrupt government so they could, how was it put again? oh yeah... "drown it in the bathtub".

And how anyone middle class votes against his own interest for right wing policies that are designed to destroy the middle class is beyond me.

 

[dilloduck]

what?

didnt Bush increase regulations and taxes over privately-earned income? oh wait, no that's right he cut taxes for the richest people so it's okay.

These arguments fall short, especially when all evidence to the contrary is so easily accessible.

We are in debt up to our eyeballs. How do you propose we pay down that debt if not by increasing taxes? Do you want to pass that along to our children and their children and generations beyond that? I don't. I'd rather pay a little more now to ensure that my daughter and future generations aren't paying for the mistakes and waste of this generation.

feel free to send the IRS as much as you like

 

[SwingVoter]

psssst... just a reality check, you AREN'T a swing voter. you're firmly in right wing camp if you think Bush didn't absolutely and to a T give the right what they wanted. Bush wasn't a borrow and spend "liberal".

Are you more interested in debating issues or throwing around labels?

Bush gave the left more than it got under Clinton. In the 90s, Gore was scaring the crap out of bureaucrats with his reinventing gov't program, while Clinton cut capital gains taxes, and presided over a remarkable economic boom.

Under Bush, we've had the massive, new Medicare Part D program, the No Child Left Behind Dept of Ed expansion, increases in funding to Africa to fight AIDS. Hardly the stuff of a tightwad right-wing administration. There are plenty of lemming conservatives who just follow whatever the GOP tells them, but any true believer in limited gov't has been disgusted by Bush, and relatively positive on what happened in this country under Clinton.

 

[jillian]

Are you more interested in debating issues or throwing around labels?

Bush gave the left more than it got under Clinton. In the 90s, Gore was scaring the crap out of bureaucrats with his reinventing gov't program, while Clinton cut capital gains taxes, and presided over a remarkable economic boom.

Under Bush, we've had the massive, new Medicare Part D program, the No Child Left Behind Dept of Ed expansion, increases in funding to Africa to fight AIDS. Hardly the stuff of a tightwad right-wing administration. There are plenty of lemming conservatives who just follow whatever the GOP tells them, but any true believer in limited gov't has been disgusted by Bush, and relatively positive on what happened in this country under Clinton.

Labels? You're the one who labeled yourself. I'm just pointing out that it's not a true or accurate label. I'm for truth in advertising. You remember what that is, right? Or are you too young. And, btw, I never called you names or was rude, just showing your nic to be a fabrication. You guys need to own the results of your failed policies. And I, for one, don't see the need to let you off the hook because you pretend you're a "swing voter" when you're clearly a right-winger.

Medicare Part D was a gift to insurance companies as was the repub's negotiating with the pharmaceutical companies to NOT NEGOTIATE PRICES... how insane is that?

No Child Left Behind is an unfunded mandate and is a travesty, which you'd know if you had children in public school, especially in an urban area. And, oh goody, he gave money for AIDS... with the radical religious right's proviso that they teach abstinence only to people who needed to learn about SAFE SEX.

Any true believer in limited government SHOULD be disgusted by Bush, but it's WHERE the government grew that's appalling. It shrunk in any area that would have helped actual people and grew in every way that appeals to the religious right.

 

[dilloduck]

So much for openess and wanting to move on with this! John McCain must be thrilled! A few more days of this and most Americans will be asking, "John who?"

Talking Points Memo

Palin Goes to War with Investigation
In one of the stories yesterday about Palin's hiring of a lawyer -- which we now find out she's having the state of Alaska pay for -- I noted that her new counsel, Thomas Van Flein, asked the lead investigator in the case to turn over all witness statements and documents produced so far in the probe. That struck me not as a good-faith request but rather an effort to get into a fight over process and thus gum up the investigation until after the election.

And sure enough, today's Anchorage Daily News provides plenty of evidence that that is what's happening in spades. Though to this point Palin has said she would cooperate fully with the investigation, Van Flein is now challenging the standing of the entire inquiry. He claims that any investigation should be handled not by the legislature but by the state Personnel Board which, conveniently, is made up of the governor's appointees.

Van Flein is also charging that the state senator charged with overseeing the investigation is on a partisan witch-hunt. "Our concern is that Hollis French turns into Ken Starr and uses public money to pursue a political vendetta rather than truly pursue an honest inquiry into an alleged ethics issue," Van Flein told the ADN. To which French rather persuasively responded that the charge of partisanship rang at least a little hollow since the investigation was instigated and authorized by a committee dominated by Republicans (though it's only fair to note that Palin is noted beloved by all Republicans in the state).

And finally that deposition that the investigator is trying to arrange with Gov. Palin? Seems she may be too busy running for vice president to make time for that. From the ADN ...

I think you are misinterpreting her actions here. Isn't she innocent until proven guilty and have the right to legally defend herself? Please explain to me how that is stonewalling.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

psssst... just a reality check, you AREN'T a swing voter. you're firmly in right wing camp if you think Bush didn't absolutely and to a T give the right what they wanted. Bush wasn't a borrow and spend "liberal". The right doesn't get to dissociate themselves from the same policies their party has outright supported since Reagan was president.This is just your hens coming home to roost because it wasn't curtailed by a democratic congress for 6 years. This is what they worked for... to bankrupt government so they could, how was it put again? oh yeah... "drown it in the bathtub".

And how anyone middle class votes against his own interest for right wing policies that are designed to destroy the middle class is beyond me.

Obama will destroy industry and Corporations, he will ensure those left that can flee WILL and those that can not will either go tits up or raise their prices for service or what they provide to even higher levels.

he will tax the upper middle class cause according to him if you make more than 125k your rich. He will destroy this country. Or he will so ruin whats left of our economy it might as well have been destroyed. And people like you are going to vote for him.

Remind me again? Who creates jobs? the middle class or the rich? Who provides jobs, the middle class or Corporations? Who is it again that Obama wants to squeeze for even more money so he can create even BIGGER Federal welfare programs? How is he going to draw done the deficit AND create all those NEW programs again? Who is going to pay for it?

The middle class and the poor will pay for it as he taxes companies till they raise prices to unheard of levels. As those left flee our country and more going bankrupt. He is going to support corn feed ethanol even though it is destroying the food market. Prices on all food will reach astronomical levels as corn continues to go through the roof on cost, destroying the pig, beef, chicken and other livestock markets, driving those prices even higher of what is left of the decimated herds. There will be shortages and costs will be unbelievable.

But hey you can vote for him with a clear conscious right?

 

[busara]

Obama will destroy industry and Corporations, he will ensure those left that can flee WILL and those that can not will either go tits up or raise their prices for service or what they provide to even higher levels.

he will tax the upper middle class cause according to him if you make more than 125k your rich. He will destroy this country. Or he will so ruin whats left of our economy it might as well have been destroyed. And people like you are going to vote for him.

Remind me again? Who creates jobs? the middle class or the rich? Who provides jobs, the middle class or Corporations? Who is it again that Obama wants to squeeze for even more money so he can create even BIGGER Federal welfare programs? How is he going to draw done the deficit AND create all those NEW programs again? Who is going to pay for it?

The middle class and the poor will pay for it as he taxes companies till they raise prices to unheard of levels. As those left flee our country and more going bankrupt. He is going to support corn feed ethanol even though it is destroying the food market. Prices on all food will reach astronomical levels as corn continues to go through the roof on cost, destroying the pig, beef, chicken and other livestock markets, driving those prices even higher of what is left of the decimated herds. There will be shortages and costs will be unbelievable.

But hey you can vote for him with a clear conscious right?

you should write a movie for scifi. obamapocalypse, the story of barack being elected

 

[Chris]

Bush borrowed $700 billion dollars from China to fund the war in Iraq.

Deficit spending is an invisible tax, so Bush increased taxes by the largest amount in American history.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you should write a movie for scifi. obamapocalypse, the story of barack being elected

You should wake the fuck up. What do you think will happen if he raises the taxes? You think those companies will just shrug their shoulders and so, oh well? Have you even paid attention to the food market. Corn was at 8 dollars a bushel this summer and Beef, pig and Chicken industry are all planning to cut their herds cause they can not AFFORD the feed anymore. This will cause shortages and drive those prices through the roof.

You think we had companies fleeing before, wait till Obama raises their taxes and takes their profits via his new proposals about how much they should make. There are only so many service related jobs available and when our remaining companies flee unemployment will skyrocket.

He is no more for the middle class then any other Democrat, he thinks 125 k is rich.

This country is in for hard times if Obama is elected. More spending, more companies fleeing, more unemployment, more Government programs, less Government accountability. Social Security will be raped, Road repair will be raped, the military will be cut. And our debt will climb.

But you live that fantasy that he is the savior. I have weapons and ammo, if he collapses society I will be prepared, will you?

 

[busara]

You should wake the fuck up. What do you think will happen if he raises the taxes? You think those companies will just shrug their shoulders and so, oh well? Have you even paid attention to the food market. Corn was at 8 dollars a bushel this summer and Beef, pig and Chicken industry are all planning to cut their herds cause they can not AFFORD the feed anymore. This will cause shortages and drive those prices through the roof.

You think we had companies fleeing before, wait till Obama raises their taxes and takes their profits via his new proposals about how much they should make. There are only so many service related jobs available and when our remaining companies flee unemployment will skyrocket.

He is no more for the middle class then any other Democrat, he thinks 125 k is rich.

This country is in for hard times if Obama is elected. More spending, more companies fleeing, more unemployment, more Government programs, less Government accountability. Social Security will be raped, Road repair will be raped, the military will be cut. And our debt will climb.

But you live that fantasy that he is the savior. I have weapons and ammo, if he collapses society I will be prepared, will you?

you should learn how to take a joke. my god RGS, ive warned you about your blood pressure before. settle down

 

[dilloduck]

Bush borrowed $700 billion dollars from China to fund the war in Iraq.

Deficit spending is an invisible tax, so Bush increased taxes by the largest amount in American history.

hint--Bush ain't running for President----and no--McCain is not Bush--

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you should learn how to take a joke. my god RGS, ive warned you about your blood pressure before. settle down

You should learn to wake up. Obama is a disaster waiting to happen and last I checked you will be voting for him. You can joke all you want. Doesn't change the fact his stated policies are disasterous for this country.

 

[SwingVoter]

Any true believer in limited government SHOULD be disgusted by Bush

Agree completely, and wish we could stick to the topic without referencing "you guys", "right-wingers" and turning the whole thing into the us vs. them debate encouraged by talk show hosts.

Facts override any ideology this year, because neither party's rhetoric has matched its results for the last 20 years, so there are a lot of people voting based on false assumptions, which is why many of us who have yet to commit to a candidate don't give a crap about Sean Hannity's or Keith Olbermann's talking points.

 

[SwingVoter]

Obama is a disaster waiting to happen

I'll bet any amount of money that GDP growth will be stronger, stock market returns higher, and the budget deficit lower under Obama than it has been under Bush.