The state of Palestine.

[Phoenall]

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Because of the very demanding last paragraph of your post I had the idea of making this thread in the first place which leads us to the question of why not starting with Gaza.

That alone would result in the world saving $ billions every year on UNWRA

Indeed, let those people go back home.

Who the arab muslims that make up UNWRA and see to it that hamas gets all the benefits. From UNWRA ambulances to transport terrorists and weapons to using schools to store weapons and aid to spend on weapons

 

[Phoenall]

I believe it's because they never intend to recognize Israel, not at the current borders and not in any borders.

The current borders reflect to any other borders as well, how so?
If they do not wish to declare statehood starting off with Gaza (which clearly has a wider borders than its actual borders) and declaring independence could ease the process of future borders, in other words the borders are not the issue here - but the recognition in Israel that would be forced upon declaring statehood and borders - UNLESS - they never intend to recognize Israel which means they simply want it all.

Indeed, they consistently say that they will not recognize the occupation.

So it's pointless to negotiate nor stopping the blockade?

Ask any Pro Palestinian what the Palestinians are doing to ""negotiate" " and there is no response

The Palestinians don't have a partner for peace.

That is their own stupid fault for alienating all the other arab states in the M.E.

 

[flacaltenn]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

That only goes so far Teddy... If the PA had wanted to do that BEFORE the fatal "elections" that ended Palestinian government --- they might have succeeded. But this week -- Egypt announced that they believe Hamas is aiding ISIL in destabilizing the Negev. And Hamas is attempting to run advanced Iranian military weapons into Syria. AND Hamas has a bad penchant for executing people in the streets. All that adds up to a to a sliver of a "nation" that can't work diplomatically with MANY neighbors -- not just Israel. And there's zero chance that without ACTING like a responsible govt -- that sanctions and embargoes would ever be lifted.

After reading the 2005 election "platform" that PF provided from Hamas -- all I can do is shake my head in disbelief that this is the choice of a people who want to own a legitimate country. That "platform" was APPALLING. Complete with a party emblem of an assault rifle. That's not gonna look good in the UN assembly now --- is it??? My hope for Palestinians with nationalist intents is being drained the more I learn about this topic.

 

[flacaltenn]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those Palis LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING eventually allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

 

[theliq]

The Zionist on this thread don't seem to care about history or human rights. The real quest. is why doesn't Israel show a hand of peace, seem they love to keep people under their control, I mean what would Israel do if they didn't have any enemies. They can't stand boredom, they need to exercise that "fighting spirit" that Bibi says that Jews have.

Every country you have went in , Jews , you have tried to control, Hitler would not have it, Stalin neither , funny he used Jews to kill other Jews.

Knocking , knocking , is anyone home??

Guess not where you are concerned as it is the muslims that are trying to take over in every country they infest. That is why there is so much killing and violence around the world. I see 12 muslims have been arrested by Tunisia in connection with the massacre on the beach. Not a Jew or Zionist in sight either just pro Palestinian mass murderers

Zionists today by nature are a "Pack of Infesting(your word) COWARDS.....as we all know.....ZIONISTS = DEALERS OF DEATH

How many people have Zionists killed in the last century then licko, then look at the numbers killed by muslims. You will find it is in the region of about 10 billion to 1 against the muslims

I think you mean't last century 20th,well Zionist have slaughted over 100,000+ Palestinians for a start.so Sucko of Golders Green your point was ?????

 

[theliq]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those people LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

I disagree,the only dialogue should be between Israel and Palestine,with interim UN assistance.

 

[theliq]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

That only goes so far Teddy... If the PA had wanted to do that BEFORE the fatal "elections" that ended Palestinian government --- they might have succeeded. But this week -- Egypt announced that they believe Hamas is aiding ISIL in destabilizing the Negev. And Hamas is attempting to run advanced Iranian military weapons into Syria. AND Hamas has a bad penchant for executing people in the streets. All that adds up to a to a sliver of a "nation" that can't work diplomatically with MANY neighbors -- not just Israel. And there's zero chance that without ACTING like a responsible govt -- that sanctions and embargoes would ever be lifted.

After reading the 2005 election "platform" that PF provided from Hamas -- all I can do is shake my head in disbelief that this is the choice of a people who want to own a legitimate country. That "platform" was APPALLING. Complete with a party emblem of an assault rifle. That's not gonna look good in the UN assembly now --- is it??? My hope for Palestinians with nationalist intents is being drained the more I learn about this topic.

Egypt BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those people LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

I disagree,the only dialogue should be between Israel and Palestine,with interim UN assistance.

Why is that? The West Bank was recognized as under the control of Jordan. Jordan poured TONS of money into it while it was administering the land. Palestinians thanked them by driving tanks towards Amman.

An independent Pali West Bank could be EATEN whole in a day by ISIL. They NEED a security arrangement and they need some administrative help and diplomatic muscle to rise above the feuding between factions..

PS -- Edited to replace Damascus with Amman.. Seriously -- I knew the difference, must have been the wine and the noise of 5th of July fireworks... Someone should have nailed me for that.

 

[theliq]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those Palis LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING eventually allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

Trouble with relying on Egypt,they are unstable long term,let us not forget they had an Islamist Government not so long ago,No this is for Israel and Palestine to resolve (really no other Arab Government care about the Palestinians.....they like the status-quo and would be a hinderence to the peace process) the only others to be involved in this process for an interim period is the UN.steve

 

[flacaltenn]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

That only goes so far Teddy... If the PA had wanted to do that BEFORE the fatal "elections" that ended Palestinian government --- they might have succeeded. But this week -- Egypt announced that they believe Hamas is aiding ISIL in destabilizing the Negev. And Hamas is attempting to run advanced Iranian military weapons into Syria. AND Hamas has a bad penchant for executing people in the streets. All that adds up to a to a sliver of a "nation" that can't work diplomatically with MANY neighbors -- not just Israel. And there's zero chance that without ACTING like a responsible govt -- that sanctions and embargoes would ever be lifted.

After reading the 2005 election "platform" that PF provided from Hamas -- all I can do is shake my head in disbelief that this is the choice of a people who want to own a legitimate country. That "platform" was APPALLING. Complete with a party emblem of an assault rifle. That's not gonna look good in the UN assembly now --- is it??? My hope for Palestinians with nationalist intents is being drained the more I learn about this topic.

Egypt BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I double dare you to read this account of the confusing events going on in the MidEast today. I just can't get my head around all the connections and faction even WITH a secret Zionist decoder ring.. It's CLEAR that Hamas and Israel are talking. It's clear that Egypt and Israel are talking. Because with the day by day events of today -- People with established claims to land are nervous in that area.

Israel s odd partnership with Hamas in the face of Salafist escalation - Diplomacy and Defense - Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

 

[flacaltenn]

- Just some food for thought -​

Hamas Currently rule Gaza, why are they not declaring Gaza an independent state of Palestine?

Obviously they could annex the WB with the Fatah(PA) later on, despite the previous attempt for uniting with Fatah.

What stops them from declaring independence?

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those Palis LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING eventually allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

Trouble with relying on Egypt,they are unstable long term,let us not forget they had an Islamist Government not so long ago,No this is for Israel and Palestine to resolve (really no other Arab Government care about the Palestinians.....they like the status-quo and would be a hinderence to the peace process) the only others to be involved in this process for an interim period is the UN.steve

All that is required is that one or more neighboring Arab states buy into a pact with Israel to get a 2 state solution. Israel is currently talking with ALL of them about tthe ISIL threat. Maybe now is the time to get some traction towards getting a representative Palestinian govt back in order..

 

[theliq]

Thank you Daniyel for a very good thread. But as usual, you have the very illiterate Penelope talking about 'boarders', this time. Her command of the English language pails in cumparisun to you'res (misspelling and grammatical errors on purpose). Then you have had Monti who always chimes in with either an "Aparthied" response or in this case his usual "European invasion" response. He fails to recognize any Israeli connection to the land at all.

Those two are easily written off as the idiots they are. The real snake in the grass is PFTinmore who attempts to imply he wants a two state solution, but when you really investigate his 'knowledge' and narrative, he is just like the rest. When he talks about the 'occupation' he is talking about the whole of Israel. Make no mistake. He also wants the Israelis pushed into the sea and does not want any realistic peace at all.

But back to me applauding your thread, I have asked the same thing in many threads. And in this case I see no reason at all why Hamas should not right now declare in Gaza an independent Palestinian country with nothing but peaceful intentions. If they did it today, I am sure that once they verified their peaceful intentions, the borders and perhaps very very very soon the sea would become much more open to them. And they would flourish. Think about it. They could rebuild their airport. They have enough good people there to actually produce something to market in the world's economy.

If only . .. . . .

Teddy,I think you are over reacting regarding Pen,Monti and Tinnie.....and a little rude(and I know a lot about RUDE at times LOL).....no one should be written off so carelessly (as you put it) because everyone has many good things to say ...on both sides of this schism ..at times.I think most on here are pretty pragmatic,I personally know that Palestine can never get all their land back to the 1948 borders....It is just a fact of life...but there can be a just and fair settlement.....I really do not believe that Palestinians want or believe Israel/Jews to be pushed back into the sea..some may but I could say more Israelis/Zionists in particular would wish to do this to the Palestinians,and as you are an objective person you would agree with me,I believe.

If what you say became reality and Palestine were allowed to be left alone they would create a wealthy Country.......As they are a highly educated,creative and productive people....you would understand this as Israeli forward thinking companies employ the brightest Palestinians,moreover Palestinians,Engineers,Accountants,etc., are employed throughout the Gulf,Kuwait,Saudi,Dubai etc.,they are also at Universities throught the Western World,including the United States.

If Israel want a two state solution it is there to be had,all the Jews fears would be resolved in time,both side have to compromise to a lesser or greater degree..........................

Yeah Liq -- but those Palis LEFT in order to realize their potential.. I personally have worked with many of them. Even helped one run for a Libertarian seat in the Cal Senate. The PA was the REASON that Israel was able to disengage from Gaza and let it loose. They negotiated in good faith and got concessions from Israel and the world for the future of Gaza. INCLUDING eventually allowing sovereignty over ports and commerce.

You cannot get that with Hamas fracturing the government. In fact -- I personally believe that what the Palestinian cause needs is a positive alliance with the King of Jordan and the people of Egypt and any other respected Arab partners that would mentor and vouch for their security and interests. Always believed the PLO screwed up when they attacked their Jordanian hosts. And that the WEST BANK would ALREADY BE THEIRS if that relationship hadn't turned ugly.. Because Israel would work with Jordan and Egypt to mentor and stabilize a Palestinian entity -- but as Daniyel is pointing out here. NONE of that is EVER gonna occur with the warrior class terrorists in charge..

Trouble with relying on Egypt,they are unstable long term,let us not forget they had an Islamist Government not so long ago,No this is for Israel and Palestine to resolve (really no other Arab Government care about the Palestinians.....they like the status-quo and would be a hinderence to the peace process) the only others to be involved in this process for an interim period is the UN.steve

All that is required is that one or more neighboring Arab states buy into a pact with Israel to get a 2 state solution. Israel is currently talking with ALL of them about tthe ISIL threat. Maybe now is the time to get some traction towards getting a representative Palestinian govt back in order..

Israel is also in dialogue with the PA and Hamas..........The last thing anyone wants is the ISIL threat,IF THIS OCCURES THEN EVERYTHING IS FCUKED

 

[Phoenall]

The Zionist on this thread don't seem to care about history or human rights. The real quest. is why doesn't Israel show a hand of peace, seem they love to keep people under their control, I mean what would Israel do if they didn't have any enemies. They can't stand boredom, they need to exercise that "fighting spirit" that Bibi says that Jews have.

Every country you have went in , Jews , you have tried to control, Hitler would not have it, Stalin neither , funny he used Jews to kill other Jews.

Knocking , knocking , is anyone home??

Guess not where you are concerned as it is the muslims that are trying to take over in every country they infest. That is why there is so much killing and violence around the world. I see 12 muslims have been arrested by Tunisia in connection with the massacre on the beach. Not a Jew or Zionist in sight either just pro Palestinian mass murderers

Zionists today by nature are a "Pack of Infesting(your word) COWARDS.....as we all know.....ZIONISTS = DEALERS OF DEATH

How many people have Zionists killed in the last century then licko, then look at the numbers killed by muslims. You will find it is in the region of about 10 billion to 1 against the muslims

I think you mean't last century 20th,well Zionist have slaughted over 100,000+ Palestinians for a start.so Sucko of Golders Green your point was ?????

So when will you provide the link to these 100,000 dead Palestinians then licko. And I meant the last 100 years going back to 1915, so start counting from India, Europe, Africa and the M.E. and when you get to 100 million you can stop and look back in dismay at your hero's

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Zionist on this thread don't seem to care about history or human rights. The real quest. is why doesn't Israel show a hand of peace, seem they love to keep people under their control, I mean what would Israel do if they didn't have any enemies. They can't stand boredom, they need to exercise that "fighting spirit" that Bibi says that Jews have.

Every country you have went in , Jews , you have tried to control, Hitler would not have it, Stalin neither , funny he used Jews to kill other Jews.

Knocking , knocking , is anyone home??

Guess not where you are concerned as it is the muslims that are trying to take over in every country they infest. That is why there is so much killing and violence around the world. I see 12 muslims have been arrested by Tunisia in connection with the massacre on the beach. Not a Jew or Zionist in sight either just pro Palestinian mass murderers

Zionists today by nature are a "Pack of Infesting(your word) COWARDS.....as we all know.....ZIONISTS = DEALERS OF DEATH

How many people have Zionists killed in the last century then licko, then look at the numbers killed by muslims. You will find it is in the region of about 10 billion to 1 against the muslims

I think you mean't last century 20th,well Zionist have slaughted over 100,000+ Palestinians for a start.so Sucko of Golders Green your point was ?????

Link?