The Solution to Poverty...A Guaranteed Annual Wage?

[georgephillip]

a good idea to consolidate all local state and Federal personal bailout programs but liberals would oppose since they oppose bailouts, especially bailouts that will never be paid back.

Conservatives agree:
"Apart from lifting millions out of poverty, the plans promote efficiency and a shrinking of the federal bureaucracy. No more “79 means-tested programs.”Creating a single point of access would also make many recipients’ lives easier. If they knew they had something to fall back on, workers could negotiate better wages and conditions, or go back to school, or quit a low-paying job to care for a child or aging relative. And with an unconditional basic income, workers wouldn’t have to worry about how making more money might lead to the loss of crucial benefits. In the Financial Times, Martin Wolf has contemplated a guaranteed income’s ability to help society adjust to the disappearance of low-skill, low-wage jobs."
Probably a better idea than invading Iran?

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

 

[PoliticalChic]

a good idea to consolidate all local state and Federal personal bailout programs but liberals would oppose since they oppose bailouts, especially bailouts that will never be paid back.

Conservatives agree:
"Apart from lifting millions out of poverty, the plans promote efficiency and a shrinking of the federal bureaucracy. No more “79 means-tested programs.”Creating a single point of access would also make many recipients’ lives easier. If they knew they had something to fall back on, workers could negotiate better wages and conditions, or go back to school, or quit a low-paying job to care for a child or aging relative. And with an unconditional basic income, workers wouldn’t have to worry about how making more money might lead to the loss of crucial benefits. In the Financial Times, Martin Wolf has contemplated a guaranteed income’s ability to help society adjust to the disappearance of low-skill, low-wage jobs."
Probably a better idea than invading Iran?

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

A truly stupid idea....and one already proven as a failure.

 

[georgephillip]

The Minimum Guaranteed Wage idea will work for the same reason Minimum Wage has worked to provide a good standard of living.

Oh, wait...

"Minimum wage laws affect workers in most low-paid fields of employment[10] and have usually been judged against the criterion of reducing poverty.[92] Minimum wage laws receive less support from economists than from the general public. Despite decades of experience and economic research, debates about the costs and benefits of minimum wages continue today."

Minimum wage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

A truly stupid idea....and one already proven as a failure.

Where would that be?

 

[kaz]

If you want lots and lots of poor people, your plan will do it

Would the plan increase or decrease the number of US homeless?

It would have little effect. Most homeless people are homeless because of mental illness, not the availability of housing. Did you know we have welfare now, Sparky?

But I see your point, if it would get people off the street, we would pay people to not work and wreck our economy for that one statistic. It would be a great argument, even as a libertarian I'd have to cave to that one. Let's end us for the the homeless. But unfortunately as I pointed out, it wouldn't work. So I'll remain a capitalist

And to get welfare, one must have a home address...Silly,,, I know...

You know, just because you have an inane thought it doesn't mean you need to share it with everyone

 

[PoliticalChic]

A truly stupid idea....and one already proven as a failure.

Where would that be?

Guaranteed wage has been PROVEN to be a failure.
Now be very careful...

1. I'm never wrong.

2. Are you sure you need me to smash this custard pie in your kisser?


If you need be revealed to be an ignoramus.....I'll be happy to do so.

 

[kaz]

t would have little effect. Most homeless people are homeless because of mental illness, not the availability of housing. Did you know we have welfare now, Sparky?

I have noticed we have welfare, Professor Kaz. I've also had personal experiences with homelessness that's led be to believe the lack of affordable housing prevents many homeless from leaving the streets. Many would bring their "mental illness" under a roof, but they would no longer have to worry about waking in the middle of the night with a stranger looming over them, which does tend to affect mental states.

Cause and effect is another potential skill we can cross off the list that we have now confirmed you don't possess

 

[squeeze berry]

Pay teachers a lot more. That'll encourage people to study harder and become teachers. More people wanting to become teachers, the more competetive the hiring process becomes and the better the teachers are. As better teachers are hired and teaching, students will do better as well. And as students do better, they do better in the workforce making mroe money, having more leisure time not having to work as much, and poverty decreases.

And all ya had to do was pay teachers more.

that would be fine by me, but there are students, just like their adult counterparts that are either unable or unwilling to be even marginally successful.

and like public school having to pull them along drags everyone else down and causes resentment

in the case of a guaranteed income, why would anyone work?

 

[kaz]

Pay teachers a lot more. That'll encourage people to study harder and become teachers. More people wanting to become teachers, the more competetive the hiring process becomes and the better the teachers are. As better teachers are hired and teaching, students will do better as well. And as students do better, they do better in the workforce making mroe money, having more leisure time not having to work as much, and poverty decreases.

And all ya had to do was pay teachers more.

that would be fine by me, but there are students, just like their adult counterparts that are either unable or unwilling to be even marginally successful.

and like public school having to pull them along drags everyone else down and causes resentment

in the case of a guaranteed income, why would anyone work?

Leftists think people are robots who do what we do just because. We will all do the same thing no matter how or if we are compensated because it is how we are made. We are hammers and socket wrenches. Therefore, CEOs will create jobs even if we are compensated like gas pumpers and no one will try to not work just because they are paid regardless of whether or not they work or how hard they work. Those of us who want to work to better our lives will continue to seek a job, no one will stop trying to get one just because it doesn't affect our finances.

Leftists are delusional

 

[Stephanie]

a good idea to consolidate all local state and Federal personal bailout programs but liberals would oppose since they oppose bailouts, especially bailouts that will never be paid back.

Conservatives agree:
"Apart from lifting millions out of poverty, the plans promote efficiency and a shrinking of the federal bureaucracy. No more “79 means-tested programs.”Creating a single point of access would also make many recipients’ lives easier. If they knew they had something to fall back on, workers could negotiate better wages and conditions, or go back to school, or quit a low-paying job to care for a child or aging relative. And with an unconditional basic income, workers wouldn’t have to worry about how making more money might lead to the loss of crucial benefits. In the Financial Times, Martin Wolf has contemplated a guaranteed income’s ability to help society adjust to the disappearance of low-skill, low-wage jobs."
Probably a better idea than invading Iran?

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income The Atlantic

wow, the frikken Atlantic. they wouldn't know what a conservative is. you will fall for anything if it advances your SOCIALIST agenda of getting control of everyone in the country...No CONSERVATE would stand with that. stop with the bs propaganda

 

[squeeze berry]

this notion is communism

if person A was sitting on their ass all day at work while persons B,C and D were doing all the work , what would happen? resentment at the very least

beat down implied

 

[georgephillip]

Guaranteed wage has been PROVEN to be a failure.
Now be very careful...

PROVE it.

 

[georgephillip]

this notion is communism

if person A was sitting on their ass all day at work while persons B,C and D were doing all the work , what would happen? resentment at the very least

beat down implied

Except that B,C, and D are receiving the exact same sum as A in addition to whatever other income they care to earn.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Guaranteed wage has been PROVEN to be a failure.
Now be very careful...

PROVE it.

And...as a bonus....I'll prove that you are an ignoramus.

1. Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

[The results for husbands show that the combination of negative income tax plans tested in SIME/DIME — which, as already mentioned, represents on average a relatively generous cash transfer program with a guarantee of 115% of the poverty line and a tax rate of 50% — has a significant negative effect on hours worked per year.
Overview of the Final Report of the SIME DIME Report]

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf



b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.



2. Charles Murray’s “Losing Ground” documented this effect using social indicators such as work, marriage, legitimacy, crime, and alcohol and drug abuse, and showing how the massive increase in government welfare programs worsened the problem.

 

[kaz]

you will fall for anything if it advances your SOCIALIST agenda of getting control of everyone in the country...No CONSERVATE would stand with that. stop with the bs propaganda

Fiscal conservative, no, they wouldn't. Socons sure do like controlling our bodies and morality though

 

[georgephillip]

Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a

So...what's changed in the last 40 years?
Is this really the best you can manage?
I'll bet it is.

"When Nixon came to office, he appointed Donald Rumsfeld to head the poverty programme, and Rumsfeld brought along an assistant named Dick Cheney. Robert Levine, one of the original experimenters who went on to work for the Rand Corporation, credits Rumsfeld for saving the poverty programme by shifting them in a republican direction, towards 'experimentation rather than action' (Levine et al. 2005: 98)."

Guess you swallowed Dick's and Rummy's lies about WMD too?

it s all one thing Basic Income Mincome vs. SIME DIME

 

[georgephillip]

The results for husbands show that the combination of negative income tax plans tested in SIME/DIME — which, as already mentioned, represents on average a relatively generous cash transfer program with a guarantee of 115% of the poverty line and a tax rate of 50% — has a significant negative effect on hours worked per year.

"The experiments generally found a 13% reduction in work effort from the family as a whole, with one-third of the response coming from the primary earner, one-third from the secondary earner and the final third coming from additional earners in the family (Levine et al. 2005: 99). Since the primary earner generally worked many more hours than the secondary and tertiary earners, this implied a relative small reduction in the number of hours on the part of the primary earner. Female spouses reduced their hours and re-entered the workforce less quickly after a break. Tertiary earners tended to enter the workforce later, which implies that they stayed in school longer.

"The biggest effects, that is, could be spun as either an economic cost in the form of work disincentives, or an economic benefit in the form of human capital accumulation.

"The general result that secondary earners tend to take some part of the increased family income in the form of more time for household production, particularly staying home with newborns, was found in all the experiments."

it s all one thing Basic Income Mincome vs. SIME DIME

 

[georgephillip]

. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.”

"The most damning result came in the form of family dissolution rates in the SIME-DIME experiment. These results seemed to imply that black experimental families had a divorce rate 57% greater than the controls, and white experimental families had a divorce rate 53% greater than the controls. This finding caused Senator Moynihan to withdraw his support for the GAI and was largely responsible for the failure of Jimmy Carter‟s welfare reform scheme. Further analysis of the data, published in 1990, rejected these findings as a statistical error, and no other experiment found any effect on marital stability (Cain 1990)."
it s all one thing Basic Income Mincome vs. SIME DIME

 

[georgephillip]

"Mincome was an experimental Canadian basic income project that was held in Dauphin, Manitoba during the 1970s. The project, funded jointly by the Manitoba provincial government and the Canadian federal government, began with a news release on February 22, 1974, and was closed down in 1979.

"The purpose of this experiment was to determine whether a guaranteed, unconditional annual income caused disincentive to work for the recipients, and how great such a disincentive would be.

"It allowed every family unit to receive a minimum cash benefit. Participants who worked had their mincome supplement reduced by 50 cents for every dollar they earned by working.[1]

"The results showed a modest impact on labor markets, with working hours dropping one percent for men, three percent for married women, and five percent for unmarried women.[2]

"However, some have argued these drops may be artificially low because participants knew the guaranteed income was temporary.[3] These decreases in hours worked may be seen as offset by the opportunity cost of more time for family and education.

"Mothers spent more time rearing newborns, and the educational impacts are regarded as a success. Students in these families showed higher test scores and lower dropout rates. There was also an increase in adults continuing education."

Mincome - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[ScienceRocks]

We might be able to do it if we automated the basics like food and basic products that are needed in the household.

Robots might be the solution that we never had before to solve the downfalls of the past.