The Sins of a Nation

[ihopehefails]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

 

[RodISHI]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

The collective that helps within the decision process makes up the whole. If one within that body of the collective pours out poison and the others ignore it are they not complicit in that act?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists?

Who says that?

Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

No.

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is true.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

What you say is true, but equally applicable to the vast majority of posters on these boards. The posters on the right, like yourself, paint liberals with wide brushes, assuming that everyone who is a liberal either agrees with something ridiculous, or is blamed for the acts of the very few. The posters on the left do exactly the same thing.

 

[ihopehefails]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

The collective that helps within the decision process makes up the whole. If one within that body of the collective pours out poison and the others ignore it are they not complicit in that act?

No because you are only punished for you actions not your inactions because if I saw a man being mugged and chose to do nothing about it for whatever reasons would I be guilty of that actual crime of robbery or does that sin still remain in the hands of the robber himself.

 

[ihopehefails]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists?

Who says that?

Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

No.

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is true.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

What you say is true, but equally applicable to the vast majority of posters on these boards. The posters on the right, like yourself, paint liberals with wide brushes, assuming that everyone who is a liberal either agrees with something ridiculous, or is blamed for the acts of the very few. The posters on the left do exactly the same thing.

I was trying to point out that the collective person does not exist.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists?

Who says that?

No.

This is true.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

What you say is true, but equally applicable to the vast majority of posters on these boards. The posters on the right, like yourself, paint liberals with wide brushes, assuming that everyone who is a liberal either agrees with something ridiculous, or is blamed for the acts of the very few. The posters on the left do exactly the same thing.

I was trying to point out that the collective person does not exist.

And I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[RodISHI]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

The collective that helps within the decision process makes up the whole. If one within that body of the collective pours out poison and the others ignore it are they not complicit in that act?

No because you are only punished for you actions not your inactions because if I saw a man being mugged and chose to do nothing about it for whatever reasons would I be guilty of that actual crime of robbery or does that sin still remain in the hands of the robber himself.

Sin is a biblical term is it not? Is what you are saying is that if you have the ability to assist in stopping a robber, murder, etc... and you stand and watch doing nothing you would think you think you would have no accountability in the matter?

 

[ihopehefails]

The collective that helps within the decision process makes up the whole. If one within that body of the collective pours out poison and the others ignore it are they not complicit in that act?

No because you are only punished for you actions not your inactions because if I saw a man being mugged and chose to do nothing about it for whatever reasons would I be guilty of that actual crime of robbery or does that sin still remain in the hands of the robber himself.

Sin is a biblical term is it not? Is what you are saying is that if you have the ability to assist in stopping a robber, murder, etc... and you stand and watch doing nothing you would think you think you would have no accountability in the matter?

This makes you accountable to your own conscience and to God in the afterlife but only for the sin of not assisting not for the sin theft. At no point does the same God that judges us for our sins judge us for the sins of others and even if that person shared some guilt with the robber that shared guilt only exist between him and the robber. It does not exist between the robber and every person within society since not everyone had the power to stop the theif.

 

[keee keee]

Obama will appologize for this in his next T.V apperance!!!!

 

[RodISHI]

No because you are only punished for you actions not your inactions because if I saw a man being mugged and chose to do nothing about it for whatever reasons would I be guilty of that actual crime of robbery or does that sin still remain in the hands of the robber himself.

Sin is a biblical term is it not? Is what you are saying is that if you have the ability to assist in stopping a robber, murder, etc... and you stand and watch doing nothing you would think you think you would have no accountability in the matter?

This makes you accountable to your own conscience and to God in the afterlife but only for the sin of not assisting not for the sin theft. At no point does the same God that judges us for our sins judge us for the sins of others and even if that person shared some guilt with the robber that shared guilt only exist between him and the robber. It does not exist between the robber and every person within society since not everyone had the power to stop the theif.

God does judge the Nations aka corporate bodies of peoples in this life and each individual. Where do you think judgment takes place? It is right here in this world today, this is the valley, this is it the happening place, this is that "down here" place not the "up there" place where one stands to find what or where they will be going next.

When a society benefits from something as a whole they also are accountable as a whole for any of those benefits that have came from any form of deceit or abuse and the whole will suffer the effects from these abuses.

 

[ihopehefails]

Sin is a biblical term is it not? Is what you are saying is that if you have the ability to assist in stopping a robber, murder, etc... and you stand and watch doing nothing you would think you think you would have no accountability in the matter?

This makes you accountable to your own conscience and to God in the afterlife but only for the sin of not assisting not for the sin theft. At no point does the same God that judges us for our sins judge us for the sins of others and even if that person shared some guilt with the robber that shared guilt only exist between him and the robber. It does not exist between the robber and every person within society since not everyone had the power to stop the theif.

God does judge the Nations aka corporate bodies of peoples in this life and each individual. Where do you think judgment takes place? It is right here in this world today, this is the valley, this is it the happening place, this is that "down here" place not the "up there" place where one stands to find what or where they will be going next.

When a society benefits from something as a whole they also are accountable as a whole for any of those benefits that have came from any form of deceit or abuse and the whole will suffer the effects from these abuses.

That is between you and God not between you and others so it makes any belief in condemnation in the afterlife a personal religious belief that may or may not have any validity.

Also, how did you enjoy the benefits of something as the whole collective? Surely whatever benefit you received may or may not have beneifited another person in the collective in the same way or not at all. This means not everyone benefits from the actions of another thus the collective is not attached to the deeds of any particular individual.

 

[RodISHI]

This makes you accountable to your own conscience and to God in the afterlife but only for the sin of not assisting not for the sin theft. At no point does the same God that judges us for our sins judge us for the sins of others and even if that person shared some guilt with the robber that shared guilt only exist between him and the robber. It does not exist between the robber and every person within society since not everyone had the power to stop the theif.

God does judge the Nations aka corporate bodies of peoples in this life and each individual. Where do you think judgment takes place? It is right here in this world today, this is the valley, this is it the happening place, this is that "down here" place not the "up there" place where one stands to find what or where they will be going next.

When a society benefits from something as a whole they also are accountable as a whole for any of those benefits that have came from any form of deceit or abuse and the whole will suffer the effects from these abuses.

That is between you and God not between you and others so it makes any belief in condemnation in the afterlife a personal religious belief that may or may not have any validity.

Also, how did you enjoy the benefits of something as the whole collective? Surely whatever benefit you received may or may not have beneifited another person in the collective in the same way or not at all. This means not everyone benefits from the actions of another thus the collective is not attached to the deeds of any particular individual.

If that one person is a decision maker or a leader of the collective they either can benefit or damaged the whole by the deeds or decisions of that one.

It only takes one to start a fire if they have the match and the forest is dry. Therefore all others are deprived of the beauty of the forest when there is nothing left but cinders and ash if many do not join in to put the fire out.

 

[ihopehefails]

God does judge the Nations aka corporate bodies of peoples in this life and each individual. Where do you think judgment takes place? It is right here in this world today, this is the valley, this is it the happening place, this is that "down here" place not the "up there" place where one stands to find what or where they will be going next.

When a society benefits from something as a whole they also are accountable as a whole for any of those benefits that have came from any form of deceit or abuse and the whole will suffer the effects from these abuses.

That is between you and God not between you and others so it makes any belief in condemnation in the afterlife a personal religious belief that may or may not have any validity.

Also, how did you enjoy the benefits of something as the whole collective? Surely whatever benefit you received may or may not have beneifited another person in the collective in the same way or not at all. This means not everyone benefits from the actions of another thus the collective is not attached to the deeds of any particular individual.

If that one person is a decision maker or a leader of the collective they either can benefit or damaged the whole by the deeds or decisions of that one.

It only takes one to start a fire if they have the match and the forest is dry. Therefore all others are deprived of the beauty of the forest when there is nothing left but cinders and ash if many do not join in to put the fire out.

Yes government has the power to affect us on a massive 'collective scale' but does it's existence mean that there is a collective personality nullifying each person's individual personality in the process. Does the collective personality such as the nation overwrite each unique individual personality within it?

 

[foggedinn]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

I consider this relatively well reasoned wishful thinking. You determined what you believed and then thought up reasons and made rationalizations to support your belief. I don't agree with your conclusions.

God does judge nations, cultures, and individuals. And he uses our own judgements as the basis on which he judges us. If we chose to judge a nation as an evil empire or a group of nations as an axis of evil, we can be subject to the same judgement.

 

[RodISHI]

Yes government has the power to affect us on a massive 'collective scale' but does it's existence mean that there is a collective personality nullifying each person's individual personality in the process. Does the collective personality such as the nation overwrite each unique individual personality within it?

No. Yet each individual can suffer from the choices of the collective.

 

[ihopehefails]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

I consider this relatively well reasoned wishful thinking. You determined what you believed and then thought up reasons and made rationalizations to support your belief. I don't agree with your conclusions.

God does judge nations, cultures, and individuals. And he uses our own judgements as the basis on which he judges us. If we chose to judge a nation as an evil empire or a group of nations as an axis of evil, we can be subject to the same judgement.

OK but is there a collective person that actually exist for cultures and nations?

 

[ihopehefails]

Yes government has the power to affect us on a massive 'collective scale' but does it's existence mean that there is a collective personality nullifying each person's individual personality in the process. Does the collective personality such as the nation overwrite each unique individual personality within it?

No. Yet each individual can suffer from the choices of the collective.

Those that suffer the choices of the collective probably didn't vote along with the rest of the collective so they had a different opinion from them.

 

[foggedinn]

It is often said that America is an evil nation for slavery but where do our sins exists? Do they exist within the collective identity of the "the nation" or do they lye with the identity of the individual himself? No one denies that when a person commits wrong they are culpable for that wrong but are those who chose otherwise equally culpable? Is one-hundred percent of the collective culpable even if one person chose otherwise?

This means that the guiltless individual nullifies the sin of the collective since one person can remove the sin from the whole and place it back on the individual(s) who committed the original sin.

This is also true for any sin, good deed, behavior, or characteristic that we attribute with the collective. This makes it impossible to assign any characteristic of personhood to the collective since the individual can shatter that collective person by their own unique personhood.

The collective 'person' simply does not exist because it is impossible for every individual within the collective to have the same personality that a uniform collective needs in order to exists.

I consider this relatively well reasoned wishful thinking. You determined what you believed and then thought up reasons and made rationalizations to support your belief. I don't agree with your conclusions.

God does judge nations, cultures, and individuals. And he uses our own judgements as the basis on which he judges us. If we chose to judge a nation as an evil empire or a group of nations as an axis of evil, we can be subject to the same judgement.

OK but is there a collective person that actually exist for cultures and nations?

The individuals that make up the Church are collectively considered the body of Christ (i.e. one body). Is this what you would consider a collective person?

 

[midcan5]

"I don't know what's the matter with people: they don't learn by understanding; they learn by some other way -- by rote, or something. Their knowledge is so fragile!" Richard Feynman



I have no idea what the original post was supposed to mean, sometimes I feel USMB now has a large circle jerk of young men and women brainwashed by conservative think tank BS? The same odd thinking is evident too often to be accidental.

But if you are interested in understanding the different ways we approach the individual and others I suggest a bit of reading and study.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Being-Certain-Believing-Right-Youre/dp/031254152X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not (9780312541521): Robert Burton: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Thought-Asians-Westerners-Differently/dp/0743255356/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why (9780743255356): Richard Nisbett: Books[/ame]


And add Steven Pinker to the list.


"I keep six honest serving men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who." Rudyard Kipling