The season of goodwill and forgiveness?*

[Old Rocks]

Laws change, being a patriot doesn't. Pardon him.

And how does his obstruction of justice represent the act of a patriot?

 

[Amanda]

And how does his obstruction of justice represent the act of a patriot?

I'm not in the justifying others actions business, you'd have to ask him.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

OK, back to your original question. Does Patriotism excuse breaking the law? Does it warrant a pardon?

One would have to define how the act that was committed was patriotic. Did it actually defend the nation? Or did it just defend someone that the perpetuator thought represented the nation? On the first question, the answer would have to be an unequivical yes before the pardon was even considered. On the second, that kind of thinking, that government leaders that represent the nation are above the laws of the nation, is how nations lapse into dictatorships.

This is one of those questions with which one can see a million hypothetical situations. In the case of Libbey, he defended members of the Bush administration. His actions were to the detriment of the nation itself.

I agree with most of what you wrote here.

here is what I started the thread with:

Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby? If I were Bush and I thought Scooter was a patriotic man I'd pardon him.

then I said I would pardon Libby. I was speaking from my understanding of Bush's perspective.

personally, I have a few issues with Libby's not owning up to what he was convicted of, but at the same time if he thinks what he did was in the best interests of tha nation...

I am not surprised, but I am disappointed in the statements of almost everyone here regarding the issues. It is interesting to me because I was rabid in my opinions that Libby and company were in need of prosecution and jail time.

Serious issues deserve serious contemplation and analysis.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Laws change, being a patriot doesn't. Pardon him.

please, explain exactly (to the best of your abilities) what you mean when you say Libby's actions were patriotic? Libby was prosecuted for his actions and not his ideology or ideas.

How is Libby a patriot?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Rocks View Post
And how does his obstruction of justice represent the act of a patriot?

I'm not in the justifying others actions business, you'd have to ask him.

I don't think anyone is asking you to justify anyone's actions. You made a statement that somebody was a patriot and should be pardoned because of that? No, you get a pardon for your actions, not because of who and what you are.

please explain what I asked above in my other post? please?

 

[Amanda]

please, explain exactly (to the best of your abilities) what you mean when you say Libby's actions were patriotic? Libby was prosecuted for his actions and not his ideology or ideas.

How is Libby a patriot?

To the best of my abilities?

Ok, how about... I never said Libbys actions were patriotic. That seems like a good place to start. The question was hypothetical, right? IF I believed someone had been patriotic would that be more important than following the law? In my mind, yes it would. So in a case like that I would pardon him.

Stupid, yes. Incapable of abstract thought, no.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

To the best of my abilities?

Ok, how about... I never said Libbys actions were patriotic. That seems like a good place to start. The question was hypothetical, right? IF I believed someone had been patriotic would that be more important than following the law? In my mind, yes it would. So in a case like that I would pardon him.

Stupid, yes. Incapable of abstract thought, no.

The exchange below is at odds with what you are saying? If not maybe you can put on your concrete thought hat and explain it? Then again, maybe you can't.

Laws change, being a patriot doesn't. Pardon him.

And how does his obstruction of justice represent the act of a patriot?

I'm not in the justifying others actions business, you'd have to ask him.

The question was here: "Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby? If I were Bush and I thought Scooter was a patriotic man I'd pardon him."

The question can be hypothetical or not. You were not asked to justify Libby's action or those of some hypothetical criminal who claims her/his actions were those of a patriot. You were asked how a specific act by a particular person was patriotic. Then you said what you said. It puzzled me.

 

[DiveCon]

thanks for my first neg rep you POS




I love girlyman/boys when they get all riled up over bs.

you cry "I don't care" as you care all too much. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

badadoooosh!

LOL

only a pussy whines about a neg rep
and man, your type sure do whine a lot

 

[Amanda]

The exchange below is at odds with what you are saying? If not maybe you can put on your concrete thought hat and explain it? Then again, maybe you can't.





The question was here: "Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby? If I were Bush and I thought Scooter was a patriotic man I'd pardon him."

The question can be hypothetical or not. You were not asked to justify Libby's action or those of some hypothetical criminal who claims her/his actions were those of a patriot. You were asked how a specific act by a particular person was patriotic. Then you said what you said. It puzzled me.

How is it at odds with anything? I think patriotism is more important that laws. So, if I believe Scooter acted as a patriot I would pardon him. I don't know what you find confusing about that. I haven't offered an opinion about whether or not I think what he did was patriotic and I'm not going to. I don't know enough about what happened. I think at the very least he was being loyal and for that I respect him.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

LOL

only a pussy whines about a neg rep
and man, your type sure do whine a lot

naw, but it has been fun watching you misread and underestimate me.

lol

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How is it at odds with anything? I think patriotism is more important that laws. So, if I believe Scooter acted as a patriot I would pardon him. I don't know what you find confusing about that. I haven't offered an opinion about whether or not I think what he did was patriotic and I'm not going to. I don't know enough about what happened. I think at the very least he was being loyal and for that I respect him.

I have enormous respect for people who are loyal, but loyalty has to have boundaries. I value loyalty very highly in my personal relationships. It si why lots of people I meet want to be my friend and very few get invited.

Patriotism is more important than laws? Too broad a generalization to have any substantive meaning at all. It is an inane comment. sorry.


try taking a stand on the issue. is Patriotism always more important than any laws? can patriotism be misplaced or abused?

 

[sky dancer]

Speaking of stingy conservatives. Bush is reknowned for being stingy with pardons.

 

[Amanda]

I have enormous respect for people who are loyal, but loyalty has to have boundaries. I value loyalty very highly in my personal relationships. It si why lots of people I meet want to be my friend and very few get invited.

Patriotism is more important than laws? Too broad a generalization to have any substantive meaning at all. It is an inane comment. sorry.


try taking a stand on the issue. is Patriotism always more important than any laws? can patriotism be misplaced or abused?

Sorry I was too broad for you. Oh wait, no I'm not, I don't care what you think. I'll take a stand on issues I feel like taking a stand on, this isn't one of them.

To me being patriotic takes priority over obeying laws. Most laws probably won't need to be broken to remain loyal to my country, but if they did I would do it. It's pretty simple I don't know why you're trying to make it complicated.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Sorry I was too broad for you. Oh wait, no I'm not, I don't care what you think. I'll take a stand on issues I feel like taking a stand on, this isn't one of them.

To me being patriotic takes priority over obeying laws. Most laws probably won't need to be broken to remain loyal to my country, but if they did I would do it. It's pretty simple I don't know why you're trying to make it complicated.

are you a natural blonde?