The Sad Future of Marriage

[Ropey]

Our patriarchal society is in the midst of transformation, a snapshot taken today provides neither an accurate assessment of the current situation nor an accurate extrapolation of the future.

Such outdated and irrelevant notions as ‘marriageable men’ and ‘valued women’ are concepts no longer a legitimate criterion for judging the health of a society.

Marriage will continue to survive and flourish as an important institution of society – the only question is: will its transformation along with the rest of society be uneventful or difficult, as the answer is solely a political one, having nothing to do with delaying marriage, a ‘shrinking pool’ of men, women’s earnings or education, or how promiscuous and unwilling to commit men may be.*

"...as the answer is solely a political one, having nothing to do with delaying marriage, a ‘shrinking pool’ of men, women’s earnings or education, or how promiscuous and unwilling to commit men may be."


*The ‘promiscuous and unwilling to commit’ male is as ancient as the human race itself, having noting to do with the factors noted in the article; regardless economic situations and social conditions, men will forever be ‘promiscuous and unwilling to commit.’

The pool of marriageable men is a matter of concern...

1. "Every so often, society experiences a “crisis in gender” (as some academics have called it) that radically transforms the social landscape.

Take the years after the Civil War, when America reeled from the loss of close to 620,000 men, the majority of them from the South. An article published last year in The Journal of Southern History reported that in 1860, there were 104 marriageable white men for every 100 white women; in 1870, that number dropped to 87.5. A generation of Southern women found themselves facing a “marriage squeeze.” They could no longer assume that they would become wives and mothers—a terrifying prospect in an era when women relied on marriage for social acceptability and financial resources.
Instead, they were forced to ask themselves: Will I marry a man who has poor prospects (“marrying down,” in sociological parlance)? Will I marry a man much older, or much younger? Will I remain alone, a spinster?

Their fears were not unfounded—the mean age at first marriage did rise—but in time, approximately 92 percent of these Southern-born white women found someone to partner with. The anxious climate, however, as well as the extremely high levels of widowhood—nearly one-third of Southern white women over the age of 40 were widows in 1880—persisted.


2. 1940s Russia, which lost some 20 million men and 7 million women to World War II. In order to replenish the population, the state instituted an aggressive pro-natalist policy to support single mothers. Mie Nakachi, a historian at Hokkaido University, in Japan, has outlined its components: mothers were given generous subsidies and often put up in special sanatoria during pregnancy and childbirth; the state day-care system expanded to cover most children from infancy; and penalties were brandished for anyone who perpetuated the stigma against conceiving out of wedlock. In 1944, a new Family Law was passed, which essentially freed men from responsibility for illegitimate children; in effect, the state took on the role of “husband.” As a result of this policy—and of the general dearth of males—men moved at will from house to house, where they were expected to do nothing and were treated like kings; a generation of children were raised without reliable fathers, and women became the “responsible” gender. This family pattern was felt for decades after the war.

3. America as a whole currently enjoys a healthy population ratio of 50.8 percent females and 49.2 percent males. But our shrinking pool of traditionally “marriageable” men is dramatically changing our social landscape, and producing startling dynamics in the marriage market, in ways that aren’t immediately apparent."
Op. cit.

"...‘marriageable men’ and ‘valued women’ are concepts no longer a legitimate criterion for judging the health of a society."

You see shortsighted in your view, as the health and happiness of individuals is an intrinsic element in an understanding of the 'health of society.'

Which is proven by the cultural decline of birthing in these populations imo. Good post PC. I was just playing a bit, but I have been reading...

 

[Foxfyre]

We have a sociopolitical system that rewards single parents, most commonly women, and punishes the family if the father or a man becomes a legal part of it again. We went through a decade or two of militant feminism that too often declared men unnecessary, other than as sperm donors, and exalted the power of women, not to be equal and alongside the men, but to be accommodated and made more important than the men.

In my opinion, the illusion that fathers and male heads of household are unimportant coupled with legalized discouragement of male involvement in the family has done serious damage to our society. The illusion that the traditional two parent family is no longer the norm and we should just accept that as no big deal is really detrimental to all of our well being and quality of life.

When the Katrina floodwaters were closing in on the stadium in New Orleans, the men there sat with the women and wrung their hands, and cursed the government's slow response to save them. It hasn't been all that long ago that men in that circumstance would have been moblizing and organizing to get the women and children out and doing whatever was necessary to feed, clothe, and house them.

We have become a nation of feminized men--some in our present company excepted here of course --and have lost sight of traditional values that would make us far stronger and happier if we would return to them.

 

[Samson]

Another solution might have been the Sig Sauer p239, one shot through the box....

....the same might introduce both rectitude and sunlight in you.

Ear plugs are cheaper; however, perhaps serving 2-5 years in a wimmins prison for attempted murder would change the young lady's attitude towards men.

'Attempted' would hardly be worth it...

...but......

The problem is wimmin aren't assertive enough.

 

[Samson]

We have a sociopolitical system that rewards single parents, most commonly women, and punishes the family if the father or a man becomes a legal part of it again. ....

Damnit, NOW YOU TELL ME!!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

We have a sociopolitical system that rewards single parents, most commonly women, and punishes the family if the father or a man becomes a legal part of it again. We went through a decade or two of militant feminism that too often declared men unnecessary, other than as sperm donors, and exalted the power of women, not to be equal and alongside the men, but to be accommodated and made more important than the men.

In my opinion, the illusion that fathers and male heads of household are unimportant coupled with legalized discouragement of male involvement in the family has done serious damage to our society. The illusion that the traditional two parent family is no longer the norm and we should just accept that as no big deal is really detrimental to all of our well being and quality of life.

When the Katrina floodwaters were closing in on the stadium in New Orleans, the men there sat with the women and wrung their hands, and cursed the government's slow response to save them. It hasn't been all that long ago that men in that circumstance would have been moblizing and organizing to get the women and children out and doing whatever was necessary to feed, clothe, and house them.

We have become a nation of feminized men--some in our present company excepted here of course --and have lost sight of traditional values that would make us far stronger and happier if we would return to them.

Good one.

You bring a lot to the table with this post.

 

[jillian]

a feminized society?

you mean one in which men are prosecuted for domestic violence without their being a 3 stitch rule? where a woman can leave a bad relationship because she has the means to do so and is not a prisoner because of a lack of means and power?

or do you mean you want to go back to a society where women couldn't own property without their husband's or father's permission?

yes, it's nice in terms of division of labor for people to have roles. but you're over-romaticizing the nature of what life was like for women before.

does that mean things are perfect? er... no. but you choose your priorities and your path.

 

[Tank]

a feminized society?

you mean one in which men are prosecuted for domestic violence without their being a 3 stitch rule? where a woman can leave a bad relationship because she has the means to do so and is not a prisoner because of a lack of means and power?

or do you mean you want to go back to a society where women couldn't own property without their husband's or father's permission?

Are you talking about Muslims?

 

[Mad Scientist]

a feminized society?

you mean one in which men are prosecuted for domestic violence without their being a 3 stitch rule? where a woman can leave a bad relationship because she has the means to do so and is not a prisoner because of a lack of means and power?

or do you mean you want to go back to a society where women couldn't own property without their husband's or father's permission?

yes, it's nice in terms of division of labor for people to have roles. but you're over-romaticizing the nature of what life was like for women before.

does that mean things are perfect? er... no. but you choose your priorities and your path.

No, I'm not saying that it was better before, I'm saying I think the pendulum has swung over too far in favor of women.

Is it a fight for "Equal Rights" or "More/Better Rights"?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I completely disagree that marriage is in any way endangered by the successes of the women's movement.

BTW, for those open to learning more about culture in New Orleans, watch the series, Treme'. It gives a lot of insight into the spirit of the people who survived Katrina. Some of you could use some cultural sensitivity training.

 

[jillian]

a feminized society?

you mean one in which men are prosecuted for domestic violence without their being a 3 stitch rule? where a woman can leave a bad relationship because she has the means to do so and is not a prisoner because of a lack of means and power?

or do you mean you want to go back to a society where women couldn't own property without their husband's or father's permission?

yes, it's nice in terms of division of labor for people to have roles. but you're over-romaticizing the nature of what life was like for women before.

does that mean things are perfect? er... no. but you choose your priorities and your path.

No, I'm not saying that it was better before, I'm saying I think the pendulum has swung over too far in favor of women.

Is it a fight for "Equal Rights" or "More/Better Rights"?

i don't think equal is more or better. it's just a different paradigm. and it's always better for individual happiness to be able to adjust things in a way that works for both partners. wouldn't you rather know that your wife is with you out of choice and not because she's a prisoner?

did i have fewer kids at an older age than i would have? sure. but i was probably a better and more prepared parent because of it. and given that i don't know anyone who was a virgin when they got married, i think worries about cows and milk for free are vastly overstated.

 

[jillian]

a feminized society?

you mean one in which men are prosecuted for domestic violence without their being a 3 stitch rule? where a woman can leave a bad relationship because she has the means to do so and is not a prisoner because of a lack of means and power?

or do you mean you want to go back to a society where women couldn't own property without their husband's or father's permission?

Are you talking about Muslims?

nice.

the law in NYS until not so many years ago was that if you beat your wife you wouldn't be prosecuted unless she had injuries requiring 3 stitches or better.

also not that long ago, a woman's property went to her husband.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Marriage is the primary institution of love. Love is not endangered. Personally, I feel the women's movement and the marriage equality movement have strengthened marriage.

Women earn more, are better-educated and have marriages that are more egalitarian. Housework is more often shared (although women still do the lion’s share). Couples who share housework have more sex. Men spend more time with their children than ever before. And everyone is happier and more stable because of it.

The more independence and education that women have, the longer they stay married.

"Traditional" marriage has changed and that is for the better. Opportunities for truly fulfilling married partnerships have improved.

Less than 50 years ago, the Saturday Evening Post did a big Gallup interview of housewives and they said over and over again, "A woman needs a master-slave relationship, the man must be the boss."

I think some bitter, former feminists long for the master slave days.

 

[Luissa]

I can say there is a lot of dead beats and a lot of players out there.
As a single woman you get sick of it and just start playing their game.

Sad but true.

My heart breaks for close friends of mine who have the same...what to call it...difficulties.

I used to think a lot differently when I was younger then I dated a few assholes, and it changed my point of view. Recently, I tried it again and it didn't work out again and I have just given up.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I can say there is a lot of dead beats and a lot of players out there.
As a single woman you get sick of it and just start playing their game.

Sad but true.

My heart breaks for close friends of mine who have the same...what to call it...difficulties.

I used to think a lot differently when I was younger then I dated a few assholes, and it changed my point of view. Recently, I tried it again and it didn't work out again and I have just given up.

Sometimes when you've completely given up on love you find the one you're meant to be with. That's what happened to me with my wife. I met her when I was your age.

 

[Luissa]

Sad but true.

My heart breaks for close friends of mine who have the same...what to call it...difficulties.

I used to think a lot differently when I was younger then I dated a few assholes, and it changed my point of view. Recently, I tried it again and it didn't work out again and I have just given up.

Sometimes when you've completely given up on love you find the one you're meant to be with. That's what happened to me with my wife. I met her when I was your age.

At this point I don't care. I am sick of disappointment.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I used to think a lot differently when I was younger then I dated a few assholes, and it changed my point of view. Recently, I tried it again and it didn't work out again and I have just given up.

Sometimes when you've completely given up on love you find the one you're meant to be with. That's what happened to me with my wife. I met her when I was your age.

At this point I don't care. I am sick of disappointment.

I hear you. You're fine just the way you are.

 

[AquaAthena]

Todays Wimmen want a mamby pamby metrosexual male who is in touch with his "feelings" or "feminine side". Yet those same wimmen get mad and complain that there are no more "real men" or "alpha males" willing to "make the commitment of marriage".

You wimmen brought it upon yerselves. You wimmen helped at least 50% to make this society what it is today. Got a problem with men? Look in the mirror. Have you ever thought that maybe guys today don't wanna' marry wimmen like you either? Think about it: Are you the kind of woman he wants to "bring home to meet the parents?"

I got an idea. Get in touch with your "inner woman" and become feminine again, learn to be a woman, not a man hating feminist. Stop berating men for being men and watch them flock to you. I guarantee you it works .

A woman who knows how to be a real feminine woman can bring a man to his knees, and she knows it.

"A woman who knows how to be a real feminine woman can bring a man to his knees, and she knows it."

Yes, I can attest. She can also be an independent woman, but one who knows when to be what a "real" man wants and needs. It's so easy and it's so sweet....

 

[Sky Dancer]

Aqua--

Do you have your own porn shop?

 

[Mad Scientist]

"A woman who knows how to be a real feminine woman can bring a man to his knees, and she knows it."

Yes, I can attest. She can also be an independent woman, but one who knows when to be what a "real" man wants and needs. It's so easy and it's so sweet....

If women ever stopped sniping at each other and made a world wide union they would rule the world. Women could make a list of demands and we'd be helpless. We'd have to give in because women are the ultimate goal in a mans life. Everything we do is designed to get a womans attention and get them to like us. Everything.

Woman have all the power and they hold all the cards really. But what do most of them do? They throw all that power away under the guise of being a "modern woman".

 

[AquaAthena]

"A woman who knows how to be a real feminine woman can bring a man to his knees, and she knows it."

Yes, I can attest. She can also be an independent woman, but one who knows when to be what a "real" man wants and needs. It's so easy and it's so sweet....

If women ever stopped sniping at each other and made a world wide union they would rule the world. Women could make a list of demands and we'd be helpless. We'd have to give in because women are the ultimate goal in a mans life. Everything we do is designed to get a womans attention and get them to like us. Everything.

Woman have all the power and they hold all the cards really. But what do most of them do? They throw all that power away under the guise of being a "modern woman".

"If women ever stopped sniping at each other"

That will never happen. Most women have an overwheming need to compare themselves with other women. Especially the most insecure ones...

Having said that, I would not want the type of man who would be helpless against women and I am not into making demands on them. We either are friends or we are not. Our man can say "yes" and he can say"no" and each decision will be respected by the woman who loves her man. Then she may choose to go out and do whatever it is, by herself and her man will be fine with that. As long as mutual original commitments are not overruled.