The RSR Polls.

[BaronVonBigmeat]

1. How important is Victory in Iraq?

It depends on how you define victory. If you define it as "establish secular western democracy", I would say it is not very important, at least not with regards to the safety and security of your average american.

2. How hopeful are you that the US will succeed in Iraq?

I would love to see Iraq blossom into a modern, secular, westernized, capitalist democracy. But it's not going to happen, and our hamfisted attempts at doing so will only waste lives.

3. Who would you like to see the president rely on for advice on the conduct of war?

A Congress
B Field commanders?

For day-to-day stuff? The field commanders of course (many of whom have been ignored or shitcanned for raising concerns). Listening to the american people might be a good thing too, since they disapprove of the war in large numbers.

4.Which of the following must be a higher priority for the US?

A. Winning in Iraq?
B. Immediate Troop withdrawal?

Immediate troop withdrawal.

5. Would you agree the War is lost in Iraq

Yes, it seems self-evident.

6. Would you agree the US is fighting a global war on Terror?

The US is fighting a global war. We have troops and bases in over 100 countries. I tend to think we are fighting more to check the future influence of Russia and China, since we are giving money to scummy characters like former terrorist Khadaffi and Musharrif.

7. Would you agree that any proposal to repeal congressional authorization for the Iraq war, sends the wrong message to the troops?

No.

8.Would you agree that setting a deadline for troop withdrawal is seeting a deadline for failure?

No. It's a deadline for cutting our losses, and facing the inevitable.

9. How important is stabilizing the situation in Iraq before we begin withdrawing the troops?

If you mean "important for america's security", it's not important at all. We left Vietnam and Lebanon with no foreigners following us home to kill us as a result of some imagined "appeasement".

 

[Superlative]

Been there and done that on many other threads

You want to change the subject - how the poll shows Dems do not want to win in Iraq and want to surrender

as I said been there and done that

You keep trying to stray off topic to try and cut your losses

Been there and done that MM

Even after questions are answered you keep asking them

This is a challenge for you RSR

Answer each of the 9 questions from the poll, in your own words.

I dont care if you've "supposedly" answered them in the past, this is the present and this is what I am challenging you to do.

If you dont, it will further prove to the many posters here, that you have no opinion and cannot form a response longer than 5 lines.

Dont even bother repeating one of the lame ass excuses you're quoted saying above, Just answer the 9 simple questions.

 

[Bern80]

No, whats your point exactley?
Iraq will have a civil war, regardless of when we leave

Your not even willing to attempt to understand people are you?

I disagree

As I suggested below a stable Iraq is very much our concern.

so is single handedly reversing global warming. That doesn't mean that a stable Iraq is anything WE can create long term

America as a nation doesn't have a vested interest in the stability of Darfur.
America, as a nation, does not have the ability to create long term stability in Iraq, regardless of how many men we sacrifice trying

Try reading ahead before making stupid comments.
your opinion. you think it's stupid, I think it's slightly droll.

as you said earlier, there is 'relatively' little 'carnage'
relatively? great. let's go home then.

you can't tell me that there is absolutely no progress of any type being made. that is the number one complaint of the troops when they come home. To them it is like our media is reporting on a completely different war.
nor have I ever tried to make such an assertion. I assert that Iraq, as a nation, is an unnatural and artificial european construct which forces together two groups of people that have no business or interest in peacefully co-existing

You first
I'm rubber, you're glue

and yet amazingly there have been no attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11.

that is but a blink of an eye in the long term view of islamic extremism. We are a fast food, immediate gratification nation. Islamic extremism is not. No one attacked our homeland between WTC 93 and 9/11. I bet you felt "relatively" safe then. Didn't you?

not a disaster by your definition then huh?
just nothing we can control, no matter how much blood we spill there.

We don't need them to like each other. We need them to not kill each other. there's a difference

you have not spent much time around sunnis and shiites, have you. THEY FUCKING HATE EACH OTHER!!!!!

that directly contradicts you last point. If we leave there will be a civil war (instability)you said. Yet if we don't leave there will be instability?

there is a difference between stability in Iraq and stability in the middle east. Iraq will either fall under the control of an autocratic dictator or it will divide. either way there will be carnage until both sides have had their fill. That conclusion was written in ink the day we toppled Saddam and did not immediately replace him with another strongman sympathetic to our interests.

As I've said before you and I actuially agree on quite a bit as far Iraq is concerned:

Should we have ever invaded in the first place? Probably not in hind sight, key word though 'hind sight'.

The fact is we are there now and due to that fact alone whether we should be there or not is really a beside the point.

I believe the violence there is equal parts sectarian and Al Queda insurgents. Mainly because it appears to me the sectarian violence is not aimed at us. the Al queda violence is.

We also both agree that whether it is the right decision or not, if we leave, there will be a civil war and the question needs to be asked what will the consequences be for America?

Personally I think the adminstration is taking the position it is because we are simply too far invested in the situation. The best analogy I can come up with is that we are in a poker game and we just got the turn and we can't win but we're way to invested too just walk away from the pot. Some critics of the war say we have wasted American lives in this conflict. How much of a waste will they be if we don't finish what we started?

 

[Gunny]

This is a challenge for you RSR

Answer each of the 9 questions from the poll, in your own words.

I dont care if you've "supposedly" answered them in the past, this is the present and this is what I am challenging you to do.

If you dont, it will further prove to the many posters here, that you have no opinion and cannot form a response longer than 5 lines.

Dont even bother repeating one of the lame ass excuses you're quoted saying above, Just answer the 9 simple questions.

Why should he? I haven't quite got the math down yet, but it's clear you expect conservative responses to the questions for which I have no doubt you have the punchline that you consider a trump in the argument.

So cut to the chase and trot out your dog and let's see if it runs.

 

[Superlative]

Why should he? I haven't quite got the math down yet, but it's clear you expect conservative responses to the questions for which I have no doubt you have the punchline that you consider a trump in the argument.

So cut to the chase and trot out your dog and let's see if it runs.

Did you read the first post?

RSR trots his "polls" out, and hails them as "proof" to whatever he is laying claim to at that moment.

He praised this particular poll to be proof "the poll nailed Dems to the wall"

I went to the site and investigated the poll, and the questions were fashioned in a way to slant the results.

I said the poll doesnt "Prove" shit.

I decided to post it and let everyone give answers, Im not judging what anyone has to say, just allowing them to answer the survey that "nailed Dems to the wall", in their own words.

I figured that with all the polls RSR throws around, and the fact that he said he has anwered the questions many times in the past, that maybe he could answer 9 questions in his own words from one of his own beloved polls.

Feel free to answer them if you like.

I have no "punchline that I consider a trump in the argument."

And if you've read the thread, you'd see that, I answered the questions first, and others have done so aswell.

 

[Gunny]

Did you read the first post?

RSR trots his "polls" out, and hails them as "proof" to whatever he is laying claim to at that moment.

He praised this particular poll to be proof "the poll nailed Dems to the wall"

I went to the site and investigated the poll, and the questions were fashioned in a way to slant the results.

I said the poll doesnt "Prove" shit.

I decided to post it and let everyone give answers, Im not judging what anyone has to say, just allowing them to answer the survey that "nailed Dems to the wall", in their own words.

I figured that with all the polls RSR throws around, and the fact that he said he has anwered the questions many times in the past, that maybe he could answer 9 questions in his own words from one of his own beloved polls.

Feel free to answer them if you like.

I have no "punchline that I consider a trump in the argument."

And if you've read the thread, you'd see that, I answered the questions first, and others have done so aswell.

So which poll does NOT slant the results? I don't accept opinion polls as fact.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't YOU the one arguing poll numbers where Fox news is concerned? I'm not accusing, I'm asking.

Point is, I don't accept them from either side of the aisle. How about you? Or do you just not except those that don't support the agenda?

 

[Superlative]

So which poll does NOT slant the results? I don't accept opinion polls as fact.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't YOU the one arguing poll numbers where Fox news is concerned? I'm not accusing, I'm asking.

Point is, I don't accept them from either side of the aisle. How about you? Or do you just not except those that don't support the agenda?

The FoxNews polls are a little different than what RSR has hailed as "proof"

Since posting the Fox News polls,
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/102.php?nid

Ive been exposed to ALOT more political polling, and ive come to the same conclusion you have.

I dont trust them, Ill look at a poll, and see the questions asked, and decide if its an opinion poll, or otherwise.

That usually dictates whether or not it should even be trusted or referenced in an arguement.