The Root of the Problem.

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Richard-H, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. Richard-H
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    Richard-H Gold Member

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    The root cause of this whole mess is the obscene wealth distribution in this country.

    While executives compensation has been soaring beyond belief. Workers wages have been frozen for years.

    Imagine if all those people that took out sub-prime mortgages had had something called a "RAISE" every now and then? There wouldn't have been a sub-prime mortgage crisis. There wouldn't have been a real estate crash.

    Anti-inflation obsession has been the right-wing economists excuse for holding workers wages down at all costs. Yet during the years of highest inflation (1960s & 70s), the gap between the rich and the poor narrowed. We had a evry robust economy.

    Economic for and by the wealthy wil always end in disaster.
     
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  2. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    Another pass the buck excuse. Have been following headlines at all. There isn't a soul that buys into this shit your spewing. I'll get to your raise BS in a second. The reason we are this mess is because a lot of people took risks they couldn't afford to take, that includes home buyers and morrgage sellers.

    Raises? As my good buddy Shogun has said a 5% percent raise these days isn't gonna do shit for people. And newsflash: You don't get a raise just for ding the stuff outlined in your job functions for another year. Employees have a contract with their employer that says for doing these tasks you get paid X. If you do more than X then you can ask for a raise.
     
  3. bush lover
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    bush lover Member

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    You are obviously a Marxist class-warfare Dem tool. Our next President McCain has pledged an additional tax CUT to the productive class in America, in addition to making our current President's tax CUTS permanent. Your Messiah wants to RAISE taxes so the Dems, who have run up the deficits with their wild Socialist spending programs, can have even more of my money to give to lazy bums who vote for them.
     
  4. Richard-H
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    Richard-H Gold Member

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    So I guess that what your saying is that instead of balancing the wealth distribution, by giving well earned pay raises to the productive people in soceity, and thereby reducing the amount of debt throughout the country. You feel that the government should solely manage the economy by manipulating the taxes. The private sector should not be responsible for the economics of this country.

    Wow, and you call me a Marxist? That's just plain dumb.

    I guess that, from your point of view, the 1940s thru the 1980s, when large pay raises were common, we were a Marxist country, huh? Dumb as shit!

    The overwhelming greed of the Capitalist ideology has at this point betrayed capitalism itself.

    BTW, red baiting went out of style 50 years ago, nowadays it just makes you sound like an :ahole-1:
     
  5. Richard-H
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    Richard-H Gold Member

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    I got news for you - there are millions of people, probably the majority, that feel the same way as me.

    Second, a 5% raise every year does help out an awful lot (Do the math). It at least will about keep up with the increases in the cost of living each year.

    Third, employeers don't limit employee responsibilties to a simple unchanging lists of tasks. Employers are constantly changing employees 'Job Function'. Almost every employee grows in his job and their responsibilties grow with them. A experienced employee is worth a lot more than an inexperienced one. But despite ever growing executives compensation (usually for doing NOTHING productive) and ever growing profits, employees wages are held to below the increase in the cost of living. An ever decreasing real wage.

    Finally, CAPITALISM is based on TRUST and GOOD WILL between an employer and an employee. Hard working, good employees must be rewarded. They will respond with increased productivity and good will to the employer, without which the business won't survive.

    This country has been a capitalist country, because the WORKING PEOPLE have chosen capitalism. Because the employee/ employer relationships from the 1940s thru the 1980s were excellent. Because the 'American Dream' was a reality.

    Nowadays, the wealthiest people in this country have betrayed capitalism, replacing it with pure greed and undoing the Good Will that this nation was built upon.

    Without that good will the working people can and will turn this country socialist, and there's not a damn thing the wealthy can do to stop it.

    :mad:
     
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  6. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    I actually do believe that and it is unfortunate. We have bread a new generation of people that believe they are owed and entitled to things not for any extra productivity, not from earning them, but just because they breathe. Companies purchase labor just like consumers purchase goods and services and what is scarce (i.e. skills sets and increased productivity will usually be rewarded.

    Cost of living or the Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) is based the CPI index released in the third quarter of each year. The CPI is measure of the change in price of given basket of goods. The last year I could find records for was up to 2006 where the figure was given as a whopping 4.1%, I suspect very much that '07 and '08 may see maybe close to a 10% The link below notes what the COLA has been since 2000

    Cost Of Living Adjustment

    Do you honestly want your pay fluctuating with this index? What if the cost of living actually decreased? Fair is fair, right? I assume you would not complain if the adjusted your pay down to reflect the COLA.

    I don't know what world you live in, but it isn't the one I have witnessed in my 5 years in the job market. Do you not receive job descriptions where you work?

    Let's talk about the employer/employee relationship for a second. There seems to be this overarching theme or notion these days that empoyers really have their workers over a barrel. It really shows all the things that employers do now that people have simply come to expect and take for granted. Everything the government takes out in taxes your employer has to match. People with even the most semi-valuable skills get amazing benefits from their employers. Mathching 401k, discounted gym memberships, on site daycare. All in an attempt to attract quality employees. Not to mention the stuff we really take for granted. Employers, not you, usually pay the bulk of your healthcare costs. They pay you to take vacation for 2 weeks out of the year AT MINIMUM. If I stay at my company for 10 years I could be eligible to take 2 months off PAID to not work.


    And you are apparently another person that doesn't know shit about the wealthy. You look at Enron execs or maybe the Paris Hiltons of the world and think that's really an accurate picture of what constitutes the majority of the wealthy. It would absolutely kill you to find out how many of the rich out there are self made. You don't like the big wigs at your company because they won't give you a raise, THEN DON'T FUCKING WORK FOR THEM. Find someone else who places more value in your skills or do what so many of those CEO's and wealthy did, take a real risk and go into business for yourself.
     
  7. Richard-H
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    Richard-H Gold Member

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    If your not constantly having your responsibilities increased, it's probably because your boss thinks your an incompetent boob. Job descriptions are only a start for most employees.

    I grew up in a town that has six railroad stations connecting the residents directly to Wall St. A town concieved and founded for the wealthy (Garden City, N.Y.). My father is a retired Wall St. executive. I am someone that very close to being a person Obama would classify as 'Wealthy'. A few years ago I lived in a town that CNN declared to be the wealthiest town in America (New Canaan, CT.)

    It is YOU that doesn't know SHIT about the wealthy. The vast majority of the wealth in this country is obtained through INHERITANCE. The vast majority of executive jobs are given based on SOCIAL STATUS and POWER MARRAIGES.

    Risk in business (was until a few days ago), almost non-existant.

    Most CEOs have not done a hard days work in they're lives. (O.K. maybe they, like the other wealthy in this country work hard at STEALING ALL THE MONEY THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH!)

    Oh, so you're an inexperienced little boy, that's bought into the BIG LIE. That explains it.

    Bet your attitude is a bit different in ten years.:tongue:
     
  8. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    What exactley is your point with this? That what's true for you is true of the majority?

    Prove it. I have my evidence. Where is yours? The following are just some of the results of a study conducted by Thomas J. Stanley PhD and William D. Danko PhD. For purposses of their study thy defined wealthy as haveing a net worth (assetts minus liabilities) of 1 million dollars which comprises apprixmately 3.5% of the 100 million households in America.

    - about two thirds are self employed

    - Many of their businesses could be considered dull or boring. They include contractors, auctioners, rice farmers, owndes of mobile home parks, too name just a few


    - Avg. Household total taxable income is $131,000, while avg. income is roughly $247,000.

    - They have an avg. net worth of $3.7 million.

    - Total avg. realized income is approximately 7%, that is they live on roughly 7% of their wealth

    - 97% are homeowners w/ avg. home value of $320,000.

    My personal favorite:

    -MOST HAVE NEVER RECEIVED ANY INHERITANCE. 80% ARE FIRST GENERATION MILLIONAIRES.

    - Our wives are meticulous budgeters

    - We are well educated. Only about 1 in 5 are non-college grads. Most hold advanced degrees. 18% have a masters. 8% law degrees, 6% medical degrees and 6% PhD's.

    - Believe that education is important for their children and spend heavily on it.

    - Two thirds work between forty-five and fifty-five hourse per week.

    - On average invest nearly %20 of household taxable income.

    For Shogun as well since you wanted evidence from the works I cited. These are paraphrased form the 'The Millionaire Next Door' by the authors above. If you think you can disprove it, by all means do so. Though I have a decent guess as to what your rebuttal will be.


    You don't know too many private business owners apparently or run one yuorself obviously. No risk in making decisions when the buck stops with you? When the future of your company and it's employees rests with your decisions? ooookaaay
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  9. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    Exactly, it is not the place of the Federal government to be dictating Wages in the first place.
     
  10. Zoomie1980
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    Zoomie1980 Senior Member

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    In a FREE and OPEN marketplace, business pays whatever the going rate for a particular skill commands. It is most a supply and demand thing. If you are a degreed medical professional or a programmer or engineer you have seen a very robust increase in your income the past 10 years. If all you know how to do is pick up garbage, then no, you aren't any more valued today than you were 10 years ago.

    and if you are still picking up garbage after 10 years......why?
     

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