The rights of many vs the rights of one, what to do?

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's just been reported that the Oslo terrorist is boasting about two other "cells" in his terrorist group. That poses a serious threat to life and liberty for many people.

Now we come full circle in the torture debate.

Read him his rights and risk the deaths of dozens more children or pull his fingernails to get the info and save untold deaths?

 

[Claudette]

Your talking about Norway.

They don't have the death penalty. I was watching a news show yesterday and they were saying the most this dirtbag can get under their laws in 21 years in jail.

Wheres a waterboard when you need one??

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Yes, that is very sad. That's not even a year for each life he stole.

 

[AquaAthena]

The fact that Norway's maximum penalty for any crime is 21 years in prison is facing rising criticism in the wake of the twin attacks that killed 93 people, with many deeming the penalty too lax.

Ever since Norwegian media named 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik as the prime suspect, calls have been growing for the maximum penalty under the Norwegian penal code to be extended.

If found guilty, Behring Breivik's 21 years in prison would equal a penalty of 82 days per killing.
Norwegians protest shooter's lax penalty - World - NZ Herald News

The man who bombed Norway's capital and gunned down Labour Party youths on an island, killing at least 93, told police he intended to target former Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland, Oslo newspaper Aftenposten said.

Norway shooting: killer 'confirms Gro Harlem Brundtland was main target' - Telegraph

 

[WillowTree]

Yes, that is very sad. That's not even a year for each life he stole.

Why can't he get 21 years for each of the 80 people he killed? That's fair.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's just been reported that the Oslo terrorist is boasting about two other "cells" in his terrorist group. That poses a serious threat to life and liberty for many people.

Now we come full circle in the torture debate.

Read him his rights and risk the deaths of dozens more children or pull his fingernails to get the info and save untold deaths?

Do you believe Jack Bauer tactics work? Have you ever interrogated a prisoner? Bauer tactics and Good Cop, Bad Cop tactics don't work. Especially with a narcissist/sociopath (new term, Character Disordered) person the best course is to develop a relationship, echo his words and use active listening skills. Watch the eyes for deception and keep interviews short and isolation periods long.

The interrogator when possible should look like the perp, appear to be from the same socio-economic class and mirror his/her language skills, even using the same words and phrases. The idea is to connect, being adversarial is the stuff of fiction.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

That's all cozy and warm. I say this animal deserves to be treated like an animal if it might save other lives. And don't give me that it won't work bs. He's not some pain defying James Bond trained in the art of defying torture.

 

[cutter]

21yrs is plenty if the other prisoners take care of business the first week. 93 victims have to have at least one relative in prison.

 

[Truthseeker420]

It's just been reported that the Oslo terrorist is boasting about two other "cells" in his terrorist group. That poses a serious threat to life and liberty for many people.

Now we come full circle in the torture debate.

Read him his rights and risk the deaths of dozens more children or pull his fingernails to get the info and save untold deaths?

If we were worried about untol death on women and children we would have tortured Bush a long time ago.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's just been reported that the Oslo terrorist is boasting about two other "cells" in his terrorist group. That poses a serious threat to life and liberty for many people.

Now we come full circle in the torture debate.

Read him his rights and risk the deaths of dozens more children or pull his fingernails to get the info and save untold deaths?

If we were worried about untol death on women and children we would have tortured Bush a long time ago.

A serious topic on a serious issue and you respond with this childish jibberish?

The sesame street forums are that way ---->

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's just been reported that the Oslo terrorist is boasting about two other "cells" in his terrorist group. That poses a serious threat to life and liberty for many people.

Now we come full circle in the torture debate.

Read him his rights and risk the deaths of dozens more children or pull his fingernails to get the info and save untold deaths?

If we were worried about untol death on women and children we would have tortured Bush a long time ago.

Moron.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Google "Norwegian prisons".... looks pretty cozy.

Not sure why the images of Boy George and a naked black guy come up though.

 

[Wry Catcher]

That's all cozy and warm. I say this animal deserves to be treated like an animal if it might save other lives. And don't give me that it won't work bs. He's not some pain defying James Bond trained in the art of defying torture.

So you've never interrogated a prisoner and all you base your opinion on are movies and TV shows. Is that correct?
Your animal analogy is also wrong. Feed and water, brush, walk and play with a dog and he'll do whatever you want, beat him and he'll do one of two things. Cower and piss himself or tear your throat out; neither is a postive result.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I don't see how anyone can justify torture - or the death penalty - and claim to be in favor of a "smaller" government.

If the government can't do anything right, why would you trust them with these decisions? Why would you support the government having the power to kill or torture?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Allowing torture in government is about the most slippery/scary slope one could imagine.

What if you pull off the fingernails of a person to gain info, and he's innocent? A letter of apology and voila, all is cured?

It takes an unlimited amount of faith in government and bureacrats to think torture would only used for wholesome purposes on people who are always guilty of the worst of crimes.

 

[Kuros]

The burden is on proponents of torture to show that it works. You know all those procedural rights people have? They aren't given as a reward for good citizenship. They're as much provided to force the police to do good police work as they are to protect citizens.

Evidence that is the product of torture is tainted. It is unreliable. Torture most people enough and they, too, will admit to having done the Norwegian bombings.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

That's all cozy and warm. I say this animal deserves to be treated like an animal if it might save other lives. And don't give me that it won't work bs. He's not some pain defying James Bond trained in the art of defying torture.

So you've never interrogated a prisoner and all you base your opinion on are movies and TV shows. Is that correct?
Your animal analogy is also wrong. Feed and water, brush, walk and play with a dog and he'll do whatever you want, beat him and he'll do one of two things. Cower and piss himself or tear your throat out; neither is a postive result.

Stop with the tabloid accusations. Torture has been continually used throughout human history. Practices that don't produce results don't last for centuries.

Besides this topic isn't about weather it works its about what one man's rights are when lives are in the balance.

 

[Dr.Drock]

That's all cozy and warm. I say this animal deserves to be treated like an animal if it might save other lives. And don't give me that it won't work bs. He's not some pain defying James Bond trained in the art of defying torture.

So you've never interrogated a prisoner and all you base your opinion on are movies and TV shows. Is that correct?
Your animal analogy is also wrong. Feed and water, brush, walk and play with a dog and he'll do whatever you want, beat him and he'll do one of two things. Cower and piss himself or tear your throat out; neither is a postive result.

Stop with the tabloid accusations. Torture has been continually used throughout human history. Practices that don't produce results don't last for centuries.

Besides this topic isn't about weather it works its about what one man's rights are when lives are in the balance.

Genocide has been used continually throughout human history, doesn't mean it's ok.

Whether it works and whether lives are in the balance are the same topic.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The burden is on proponents of torture to show that it works. You know all those procedural rights people have? They aren't given as a reward for good citizenship. They're as much provided to force the police to do good police work as they are to protect citizens.

Evidence that is the product of torture is tainted. It is unreliable. Torture most people enough and they, too, will admit to having done the Norwegian bombings.

When you catch someone in the act of commiting mass murder I don't think we need to worry about any further evidence for his trial. However the "posibility" of stopping another horrendous attack is well worth the risks of upsetting others.

HE WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACT AND HAS BOASTED ABOUT POSSIBLE OTHER ATTACKS.

It's time to put political correctness back in our pockets and be proactive rather than reactive

 

[Kuros]

The burden is on proponents of torture to show that it works. You know all those procedural rights people have? They aren't given as a reward for good citizenship. They're as much provided to force the police to do good police work as they are to protect citizens.

Evidence that is the product of torture is tainted. It is unreliable. Torture most people enough and they, too, will admit to having done the Norwegian bombings.

When you catch someone in the act of commiting mass murder I don't think we need to worry about any further evidence for his trial. However the "posibility" of stopping another horrendous attack is well worth the risks of upsetting others.

HE WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACT AND HAS BOASTED ABOUT POSSIBLE OTHER ATTACKS.

It's time to put political correctness back in our pockets and be proactive rather than reactive

I still see no evidence that torture would be effective.

Do you see how this works? Your burden, not least because its your proposal and your thread, but certainly most because you are ADVOCATING TORTURE.