The Right To Bear Arms

[elvis]

The courts will say no.

The courts?

So now the courts draft legislation and can change the constitution at will?


I think you'd better go back and re-read the constitution and focus on the powers of various branches of government.

No silly. The courts will uphold the second amendment when it is challenged.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Anyone here belong to a militia? Know anyone who belongs to a militia? I don't...

You do not know any able bodied men between 17 and 45? Why does that not surprise me?

 

[DiamondDave]

The minute you consider the rest of the constitution obsolete, it will be obsolete.. but at that moment, you will have those that swore to defend the constitution stepping up to defend it against the likes of the OP

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Has human nature changed?

Have people stopped doing evil things and threatening innocent people?

Have politicians learned to respect the sovereignty of the people and stop trying to micromanage their existence?

If not, then of course it isn't obsolete. You'd have to be an idiot to think that or completely ignorant of the purpose of the Second amendment which is to protect our right to self defense and prevent tyranny and oppression.

When the people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fears it's people, then we have freedom.

Your NaziCon rant doesn't address the OP. Do you belong to a militia? Why isn't the 2nd Amendment obsolete?

I am pretty sure that, by definition, Nazis are the people that support the government, not the ones that think the government needs to be reigned in. That means that, if anyone is a Nazi in this thread, it would be the people who insist the government should disarm its citizens.

 

[mudwhistle]

The courts will say no.

The courts?

So now the courts draft legislation and can change the constitution at will?


I think you'd better go back and re-read the constitution and focus on the powers of various branches of government.

No silly. The courts will uphold the second amendment when it is challenged.

The courts need not do so because the matter is settled.

The legislature must pass an amendment to change or strike down the 2nd amendment. The legislature can declare gun-free zones but they cannot pass laws that infringe on the right to gun ownership.

 

[Zander]

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting or personal defense. It has to do with the People of America maintaining a military force for the sole purpose of overthrowing a government that becomes too tyrannical. That is the 100% documented, non-debatable intent of the Second Amendment.

 

[elvis]

The minute you consider the rest of the constitution obsolete, it will be obsolete.. but at that moment, you will have those that swore to defend the constitution stepping up to defend it against the likes of the OP

I don't think there are enough of us.....

 

[Avatar4321]

Has human nature changed?

Have people stopped doing evil things and threatening innocent people?

Have politicians learned to respect the sovereignty of the people and stop trying to micromanage their existence?

If not, then of course it isn't obsolete. You'd have to be an idiot to think that or completely ignorant of the purpose of the Second amendment which is to protect our right to self defense and prevent tyranny and oppression.

When the people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fears it's people, then we have freedom.

Your NaziCon rant doesn't address the OP. Do you belong to a militia? Why isn't the 2nd Amendment obsolete?

I am pretty sure that, by definition, Nazis are the people that support the government, not the ones that think the government needs to be reigned in. That means that, if anyone is a Nazi in this thread, it would be the people who insist the government should disarm its citizens.

You forget, that we are talking to people who have no clue what the nazis want and think that somehow being for less government is compatible with nazism.

 

[elvis]

The courts?

So now the courts draft legislation and can change the constitution at will?


I think you'd better go back and re-read the constitution and focus on the powers of various branches of government.

No silly. The courts will uphold the second amendment when it is challenged.

The courts need not do so because the matter is settled.

The legislature must pass an amendment to change or strike down the 2nd amendment. The legislature can declare gun-free zones but they cannot pass laws that infringe on the right to gun ownership.

They will try to pass laws that infringe gun ownership. They want to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wingnuts haven't said or done anything to convince anyone that assualt weapons are a part of the second ammendment so in that way, yes, it is obsolete.

No one has yet provided me with a definition of assault weapon. Once someone does, I will be able to attempt to make an argument about whether they are covered by the 2nd Amendment. Keep in mind that I can easily prove that cannons were actually privately owned at the time the Constitution was drafted, so it is going to be pretty easy for me to argue that it covers almost anything that a single person can operate, or move with the assistance of horses.

In fact, the US government actually allows anyone to purchase anything manufactured before 1898 as long as it has not been modified to accept modern cartridges. That actually includes a lot of things that you get your panties in a twist about, including the Maxim gun, the world's first fully automatic weapon.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Your NaziCon rant doesn't address the OP. Do you belong to a militia? Why isn't the 2nd Amendment obsolete?

I am pretty sure that, by definition, Nazis are the people that support the government, not the ones that think the government needs to be reigned in. That means that, if anyone is a Nazi in this thread, it would be the people who insist the government should disarm its citizens.

You forget, that we are talking to people who have no clue what the nazis want and think that somehow being for less government is compatible with nazism.

clueless people who call conservatives Nazis......yet Nazis were just like the liberals are today....they were all for gun control too......

Nazi Gun Control

 

[boedicca]

No one has yet provided me with a definition of assault weapon.

I've also requested a comparison between an Assault Weapon and a Non-Assault Weapon several times. No response.

From the press accounts, the bright lights on the left think assault weapons have "high magazine clips" and "things that flip up on the shoulder". And they look Vewy Scawwwyyyy!!!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This thread makes Baby Thomas Jefferson cry.

Baby Thomas Jefferson grew up into the man that argued that we should hold an armed revolution against the government every 20 years. In other words, I might make the baby cry, but people that want to defend the government instead of fight it make the man sick.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure

The tree of liberty... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)

Classified guns for "sporting purposes".
All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check.
Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law.
Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.
The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.
Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The minute you consider the rest of the constitution obsolete, it will be obsolete.. but at that moment, you will have those that swore to defend the constitution stepping up to defend it against the likes of the OP

I don't think there are enough of us.....

The government estimates that there are 270 million guns in this country, there might just be more than you think.

 

[boedicca]

This thread makes Baby Thomas Jefferson cry.

Baby Thomas Jefferson grew up into the man that argued that we should hold an armed revolution against the government every 20 years. In other words, I might make the baby cry, but people that want to defend the government instead of fight it make the man sick.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure

The tree of liberty... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

You have a severe reading comprehension problem. I dare you to find one post I have made regarding gun rights which doesn't support the Jeffersonian view.

 

[asterism]

Wingnuts haven't said or done anything to convince anyone that assualt weapons are a part of the second ammendment so in that way, yes, it is obsolete.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

District of Columbia v. Heller:

United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174 , does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

United States v. Miller

The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily, when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.

United States v. Miller

What weapons are in common use right now?

 

[mudwhistle]

Has human nature changed?

Have people stopped doing evil things and threatening innocent people?

Have politicians learned to respect the sovereignty of the people and stop trying to micromanage their existence?

If not, then of course it isn't obsolete. You'd have to be an idiot to think that or completely ignorant of the purpose of the Second amendment which is to protect our right to self defense and prevent tyranny and oppression.

When the people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fears it's people, then we have freedom.

Your NaziCon rant doesn't address the OP. Do you belong to a militia? Why isn't the 2nd Amendment obsolete?

Is there a need for a militia today?

If there is do you think removing the means to form one follows the constitution?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Right or wrong, obsolete or relevant, the Second Amendment essentially means what five justices on the Supreme Court say it means.

Back in yon olden days, that there musket could be fired only about 14 times before it became to hot to hold.

I agree that the second amendment is outdated, antiquated and never intended to be the measurement we use it for today.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This thread makes Baby Thomas Jefferson cry.

Baby Thomas Jefferson grew up into the man that argued that we should hold an armed revolution against the government every 20 years. In other words, I might make the baby cry, but people that want to defend the government instead of fight it make the man sick.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure

The tree of liberty... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

You have a severe reading comprehension problem. I dare you to find one post I have made regarding gun rights which doesn't support the Jeffersonian view.

My apologies, I wasn't referring to you. In fact, if you read my post you will see that I clearly argued that people who want gun control make the man sick.