The return of deathpanels?

[Quantum Windbag]

Medicare regulation revives end-of-life planning - USATODAY.com


So will you people call end of life counseling death panels again this time?

will you insult the families going through this emotional time and make their pain worse?

Will you accuse families who get this counciling of planning to kill their loved one?

Do you think the administration ignoring Congress and imposing the same rewards to find alternatives to expensive treatments through regulations is a better idea than doing it legally?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wiki is a fine source, you just dont like it because it provides too much information you dont like

Try using Wiki in a college class with that argument and see what type of grade you get. The reason critical thinkers don't like Wikipedia is there is no way to vet the source of posts like the one you just linked to.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

Post it. The rule of the stimulus by obama does NOT say states cannot spend any of their own dollars on highways. Show me. I have posted my facts about the arizona republican legislature cutting their medicaid funds and then disapproving previously approved transplants, becoming another rich guy "death panel". Show me your rule of the stimulus set by obama, since that is your supposed justification.

You have posted your facts and I have posted my facts the Govenment has guidelines that must be follow. How can anyone fail to understand this?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LOL There are death panels in existance today. They are created by the health insurance industry to deny claims to those who have been paying into their companies for years, sometimes for decades. But those are just fine with you Conservatives because they increase the profits going to the very few very wealthy.

The Asshole Morality of the typical Conservative is once again being daylighted in the OP.

LOL YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

You complain about the insurance company but yearn for the government version which will be a hell of a lot harsher.

I do not want government universal health care. However, I am self employed for 30 years, own 3 corporations and have paid 200K into health insurance.
Benefits as health care is a terrible and inefficient delivery system. You and I ARE NOT the customer. The insurance company is.
And it is a train wreck happening right now. Government employees receiving insurance health care will soon have their health care benefit represent 35% of their salary for non management positions. Same with blue collar workers but a little lower.
The American insurance health care benefit model has ruined American business.
Now watch all the saviours come and claim that tort reform will save us all.

Try negotiating directly with your doctor for as much as possible and taking the middle man out of the equation. You get lower cost health care, and he doesn't have to pay someone to fill out the required insurance forms.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If the insurance industry would have accepted a certain level of profit then all would have been OK.

They instead tried to increase profits every year which meant shittier and shitier care at higher and higher cost.

They fucked us and themselves and there will be no choice but to take it out of their hands eventually.

The republicans will stand in the way asz long as they can but it will happen and then care will get better and cheaper and the insurance cos will get less money.

Hell even they know it, they are justw trying to squeeze the last few dollars out of the American people before their world changes.

What level of profit do you think would be reasonable for an insurance company?

 

[finebead]

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

Post it. The rule of the stimulus by obama does NOT say states cannot spend any of their own dollars on highways. Show me. I have posted my facts about the arizona republican legislature cutting their medicaid funds and then disapproving previously approved transplants, becoming another rich guy "death panel". Show me your rule of the stimulus set by obama, since that is your supposed justification.

You have posted your facts and I have posted my facts the Govenment has guidelines that must be follow. How can anyone fail to understand this?

There is a link to my facts, and I have a quote from the link. My facts are on exhibit, I have proven they exist. You have not proven your statement, that:

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

You have not shown the quote where this rule says anything. Show me. So far, you have not demonstrated ANY FACTS. You have stated your opinion, that is all, and that is inadequate in the face of my facts that it is the republican arizona legislature and gov. brewer that passed and signed a new budget that will reverse its decision to allow 98 transplant operations, resulting in these people dying without them. The republican death panel.

There is an 8 billion dollar annual budget for arizona, I have looked it over, and all that is needed for all 98 transplants is 5 million. It can be found, I have found it, and I can post it if you can post where the obama stimulus constrains the arizona legislature with respect to highway or medicare funds, in order specifically to deny these transplants.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years - It's Your Money - TIME.com

So the dem solution was to protect trial lawyers while causing massive increases in costs.


America doesnt need that type of help.

So trial lawyers are the problem with health care? LOL.
And everyone that has had malpractice by a doctor is a liberal.
Negligence by the doctors, not trial lawyers, are the problem.
If there was not a lot of negligence how come the first folks to claim there is are DOCTORS?

Negligence is a problem, but it doesn't increase the cost of care for the average patient.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Medicare regulation revives end-of-life planning - USATODAY.com


So will you people call end of life counseling death panels again this time?

will you insult the families going through this emotional time and make their pain worse?

Will you accuse families who get this counciling of planning to kill their loved one?

This procedure was rejected by Congress, specifically the Senate killed the idea in the ObamaCare bill, but I see our crafty President and his band of crooks have made an end run around the Constitution and is causing it to become effective on January 1st. So, prove to me that this President gives a shit about what the American public wants and that he is in favor of supporting the Constitution. There should be a very loud voice coming out of the Congress when they regroup in January to end this sickening madness and stop this radical President.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years - It's Your Money - TIME.com

So the dem solution was to protect trial lawyers while causing massive increases in costs.


America doesnt need that type of help.

Wow. You should run for something. Right on top of it all, I see.

Yeah, let's get rid of medical malpractice lawyers.

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

Explain to me how having gobs of lawyers lining up to sue everyone in sight prevented that number from being higher.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh please. Miss South Carolina teen 2007 makes more sense than Sarah Palin.

She makes more sense than Rdean, too.

Sure, I can just see Palin making points based on fact. When has that ever happened? You do know you just looked silly by saying "She's almost as stupid as you..." That's what a five-year old might say. [Like naaaya naaaya naaaya]

Are you actually trying to defend rdean? When has he ever made a point based on facts?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, "THEY DD". It WAS the arizona legislature that prepared the budget, and they could have taken 200K out of the highway funds and provided the transplant if they wanted, and the feds would have approved that also. So, it was the arizona legislature that voted to cut the funding (when other funds could have been cut), and the arizona legislature and gov. who told this guy there was not money to have his transplant, so the arizona legislature is the death panel.

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

 

[finebead]

Hw could they have taken 200K from the highway fund when the highway fund money came from the stimulus?

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

On the other hand the federal government could have even more easily come up with that same amount and sent it to Arizona for the exact same people you calim to be worried about. Why don't you write your Representatives and Senators and suggest that?

Unlike the federal government Arizona has to operate on a balanced budget, they have to make hard choices, and they did so. If you don't like the choices they made you are certainly free to protest to your state representative and tell them that they should have voted differently.

Unless, of course, you don't live in Arizona, and all you are whining about is the way other people decide to spend their money. That is what it actually comes down to here, unless it is your money you should shut up and stay out of the discussion.

 

[finebead]

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

On the other hand the federal government could have even more easily come up with that same amount and sent it to Arizona for the exact same people you calim to be worried about. Why don't you write your Representatives and Senators and suggest that?

Unlike the federal government Arizona has to operate on a balanced budget, they have to make hard choices, and they did so. If you don't like the choices they made you are certainly free to protest to your state representative and tell them that they should have voted differently.

Unless, of course, you don't live in Arizona, and all you are whining about is the way other people decide to spend their money. That is what it actually comes down to here, unless it is your money you should shut up and stay out of the discussion.

This is what it comes down to:

REPUBLICAN DEATH PANEL, KILLING POOR PEOPLE!!!

 

[Revere]

Show me where ALL highway funds in arizona came from the stimulus! You are guessing. That is no defense of the legislature. You mean to tell me that EVERYTHING in the state budget is more important that giving this guy the organ transplant he needs to live? No way, those are politicians!

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

Who controlled the Medicaid program for the last 4 years?

Will government give you all the health care you want, in your utopia?

 

[finebead]

Highway funds generally come from gas taxes, and are designated for that purpose by law. Most people would agree that taking money that is allocated for one thing ans using it to benefit a single person would be inappropriate. Robin Hood might disagree, but I doubt he was the hero he is portrayed as.

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

Who controlled the Medicaid program for the last 4 years?

Will government give you all the health care you want, in your utopia?

The funding cut was by the arizona repub dominated legislature, the funding is joint between fed and state, but the arizona repub legislature passed this budget bill making dramatic cuts in medicaid funding, not the feds.

Will govt. give me all the healthcare I want, probably so, I don't expect to live forever. I have analyzed my life, and I have achieved most of my major goals, successful marriage, 3 successful adult kids, can retire tomorrow at age of 58, no major debts. I am ready to go when the time comes. I don't want to live so long that someone has to wipe me, or I can't recognize my family although my eyes are working.

 

[Revere]

In the 8 billion dollar annual budget, have you looked to see that there was no other way to find 4.5 million to provide the transplants needed by the 98 people who were rejected after they were told they had been approved? I've looked and I believe it can be done, I could make several proposals. The repubs in the legislature and the gov. just don't value human life and these are just poor people, so they will let them die. The republican death panel.

Who controlled the Medicaid program for the last 4 years?

Will government give you all the health care you want, in your utopia?

The funding cut was by the arizona repub dominated legislature, the funding is joint between fed and state, but the arizona repub legislature passed this budget bill making dramatic cuts in medicaid funding, not the feds.

Will govt. give me all the healthcare I want, probably so, I don't expect to live forever. I have analyzed my life, and I have achieved most of my major goals, successful marriage, 3 successful adult kids, can retire tomorrow at age of 58, no major debts. I am ready to go when the time comes. I don't want to live so long that someone has to wipe me, or I can't recognize my family although my eyes are working.

Then drop dead.

I don't want your government telling me what to do at the end of my life.

Does every other state give any transplant patient under Medicaid every organ they want?

 

[finebead]

Who controlled the Medicaid program for the last 4 years?

Will government give you all the health care you want, in your utopia?

The funding cut was by the arizona repub dominated legislature, the funding is joint between fed and state, but the arizona repub legislature passed this budget bill making dramatic cuts in medicaid funding, not the feds.

Will govt. give me all the healthcare I want, probably so, I don't expect to live forever. I have analyzed my life, and I have achieved most of my major goals, successful marriage, 3 successful adult kids, can retire tomorrow at age of 58, no major debts. I am ready to go when the time comes. I don't want to live so long that someone has to wipe me, or I can't recognize my family although my eyes are working.

Then drop dead.

I don't want your government telling me what to do at the end of my life.

Does every other state give any transplant patient under Medicaid every organ they want?

Who cares what any other state does with medicare transplants. I am demonstrating the fact that the arizona repub legislature and repub gov. have withdrawn funding from 98 transplant patients, who were previously approved for their transplants by that same state medicaid, that they can't have them. That is a clear death panel, the repub arizona legislature. Stop trying to obfuscate or change the subject. The repubs are guilty, clearly, of the same thing they charge that obamacare might have to do. But, its bad if it is obamacare, and its OK if its the repub arizona legislature? Explain that to me.

Quantum Windbad has justified this for the Arizona repub legislature, saying they had to balance their budget, make hard choices, and they did. I can accept that if you will agree the feds will face the exact same choice, and if it is ok for the ariz. repub legislature to make that choice, it will also be ok for the fed. gov. to make that choice.

Unlike the federal government Arizona has to operate on a balanced budget, they have to make hard choices, and they did so.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Post it. The rule of the stimulus by obama does NOT say states cannot spend any of their own dollars on highways. Show me. I have posted my facts about the arizona republican legislature cutting their medicaid funds and then disapproving previously approved transplants, becoming another rich guy "death panel". Show me your rule of the stimulus set by obama, since that is your supposed justification.

You have posted your facts and I have posted my facts the Govenment has guidelines that must be follow. How can anyone fail to understand this?

There is a link to my facts, and I have a quote from the link. My facts are on exhibit, I have proven they exist. You have not proven your statement, that:

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

You have not shown the quote where this rule says anything. Show me. So far, you have not demonstrated ANY FACTS. You have stated your opinion, that is all, and that is inadequate in the face of my facts that it is the republican arizona legislature and gov. brewer that passed and signed a new budget that will reverse its decision to allow 98 transplant operations, resulting in these people dying without them. The republican death panel.

There is an 8 billion dollar annual budget for arizona, I have looked it over, and all that is needed for all 98 transplants is 5 million. It can be found, I have found it, and I can post it if you can post where the obama stimulus constrains the arizona legislature with respect to highway or medicare funds, in order specifically to deny these transplants.

Heres what Arizona did with the stimulus money
What's in the stimulus package for Arizona?

And

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an unprecedented effort to jumpstart our economy, create or save millions of jobs, and put a down payment on addressing long-neglected challenges so our country can thrive in the 21st century. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an extraordinary response to a crisis unlike any since the Great Depression. With much at stake, the Act provides for unprecedented levels of transparency and accountability so that you will be able to know how, when, and where your tax dollars are being spent. Spearheaded by a new Recovery Board, this Act contains built-in measures to root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending. This website, Recovery.gov, will be the main vehicle to provide each and every citizen with the ability to monitor the progress of the recovery.

Arizona Department of Health Services

 

[Revere]

The funding cut was by the arizona repub dominated legislature, the funding is joint between fed and state, but the arizona repub legislature passed this budget bill making dramatic cuts in medicaid funding, not the feds.

Will govt. give me all the healthcare I want, probably so, I don't expect to live forever. I have analyzed my life, and I have achieved most of my major goals, successful marriage, 3 successful adult kids, can retire tomorrow at age of 58, no major debts. I am ready to go when the time comes. I don't want to live so long that someone has to wipe me, or I can't recognize my family although my eyes are working.

Then drop dead.

I don't want your government telling me what to do at the end of my life.

Does every other state give any transplant patient under Medicaid every organ they want?

Who cares what any other state does with medicare transplants. I am demonstrating the fact that the arizona repub legislature and repub gov. have withdrawn funding from 98 transplant patients, who were previously approved for their transplants by that same state medicaid, that they can't have them. That is a clear death panel, the repub arizona legislature. Stop trying to obfuscate or change the subject. The repubs are guilty, clearly, of the same thing they charge that obamacare might have to do. But, its bad if it is obamacare, and its OK if its the repub arizona legislature? Explain that to me.

Quantum Windbad has justified this for the Arizona repub legislature, saying they had to balance their budget, make hard choices, and they did. I can accept that if you will agree the feds will face the exact same choice, and if it is ok for the ariz. repub legislature to make that choice, it will also be ok for the fed. gov. to make that choice.

Unlike the federal government Arizona has to operate on a balanced budget, they have to make hard choices, and they did so.

Will there ever be enough money for goevrnment to give everyone all the health care they want?