The return of deathpanels?

[bigrebnc1775]

then drop dead.

I don't want your government telling me what to do at the end of my life.

Does every other state give any transplant patient under medicaid every organ they want?

who cares what any other state does with medicare transplants. I am demonstrating the fact that the arizona repub legislature and repub gov. Have withdrawn funding from 98 transplant patients, who were previously approved for their transplants by that same state medicaid, that they can't have them. That is a clear death panel, the repub arizona legislature. Stop trying to obfuscate or change the subject. The repubs are guilty, clearly, of the same thing they charge that obamacare might have to do. But, its bad if it is obamacare, and its ok if its the repub arizona legislature? Explain that to me.

Quantum windbad has justified this for the arizona repub legislature, saying they had to balance their budget, make hard choices, and they did. I can accept that if you will agree the feds will face the exact same choice, and if it is ok for the ariz. Repub legislature to make that choice, it will also be ok for the fed. Gov. To make that choice.

unlike the federal government arizona has to operate on a balanced budget, they have to make hard choices, and they did so.

will there ever be enough money for goevrnment to give everyone all the health care they want?

no

 

[finebead]

You have posted your facts and I have posted my facts the Govenment has guidelines that must be follow. How can anyone fail to understand this?

There is a link to my facts, and I have a quote from the link. My facts are on exhibit, I have proven they exist. You have not proven your statement, that:

Read the rule of the stimulus set by obama. All I can say is get use to obamacare if that pisses you off.

You have not shown the quote where this rule says anything. Show me. So far, you have not demonstrated ANY FACTS. You have stated your opinion, that is all, and that is inadequate in the face of my facts that it is the republican arizona legislature and gov. brewer that passed and signed a new budget that will reverse its decision to allow 98 transplant operations, resulting in these people dying without them. The republican death panel.

There is an 8 billion dollar annual budget for arizona, I have looked it over, and all that is needed for all 98 transplants is 5 million. It can be found, I have found it, and I can post it if you can post where the obama stimulus constrains the arizona legislature with respect to highway or medicare funds, in order specifically to deny these transplants.

Heres what Arizona did with the stimulus money
What's in the stimulus package for Arizona?

And

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an unprecedented effort to jumpstart our economy, create or save millions of jobs, and put a down payment on addressing long-neglected challenges so our country can thrive in the 21st century. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an extraordinary response to a crisis unlike any since the Great Depression. With much at stake, the Act provides for unprecedented levels of transparency and accountability so that you will be able to know how, when, and where your tax dollars are being spent. Spearheaded by a new Recovery Board, this Act contains built-in measures to root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending. This website, Recovery.gov, will be the main vehicle to provide each and every citizen with the ability to monitor the progress of the recovery.

Arizona Department of Health Services

All of which has nothing to do with the decision by the arizona repub legislature to craft a budget with a massive cut in STATE medicaid spending and tell the transplant patients they had approved that they would not provide funding for their transplants. The state made that decision, it was the state's program, and the states repub crafted and approved budget.

 

[Revere]

There is a link to my facts, and I have a quote from the link. My facts are on exhibit, I have proven they exist. You have not proven your statement, that:


You have not shown the quote where this rule says anything. Show me. So far, you have not demonstrated ANY FACTS. You have stated your opinion, that is all, and that is inadequate in the face of my facts that it is the republican arizona legislature and gov. brewer that passed and signed a new budget that will reverse its decision to allow 98 transplant operations, resulting in these people dying without them. The republican death panel.

There is an 8 billion dollar annual budget for arizona, I have looked it over, and all that is needed for all 98 transplants is 5 million. It can be found, I have found it, and I can post it if you can post where the obama stimulus constrains the arizona legislature with respect to highway or medicare funds, in order specifically to deny these transplants.

Heres what Arizona did with the stimulus money
What's in the stimulus package for Arizona?

And

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an unprecedented effort to jumpstart our economy, create or save millions of jobs, and put a down payment on addressing long-neglected challenges so our country can thrive in the 21st century. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an extraordinary response to a crisis unlike any since the Great Depression. With much at stake, the Act provides for unprecedented levels of transparency and accountability so that you will be able to know how, when, and where your tax dollars are being spent. Spearheaded by a new Recovery Board, this Act contains built-in measures to root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending. This website, Recovery.gov, will be the main vehicle to provide each and every citizen with the ability to monitor the progress of the recovery.

Arizona Department of Health Services

All of which has nothing to do with the decision by the arizona repub legislature to craft a budget with a massive cut in STATE medicaid spending and tell the transplant patients they had approved that they would not provide funding for their transplants. The state made that decision, it was the state's program, and the states repub crafted and approved budget.

Massachusetts cut Romney care too. So what?

Why give up what we have for the promises of people who have accomplished nothing, and the false utopia of government assured health care?

Why should I give up my health care for that bullshit?

 

[Revere]

Hawaii cut Keiki Care.

Every state is going broke running Medicaid.

 

[finebead]

who cares what any other state does with medicare transplants. I am demonstrating the fact that the arizona repub legislature and repub gov. Have withdrawn funding from 98 transplant patients, who were previously approved for their transplants by that same state medicaid, that they can't have them. That is a clear death panel, the repub arizona legislature. Stop trying to obfuscate or change the subject. The repubs are guilty, clearly, of the same thing they charge that obamacare might have to do. But, its bad if it is obamacare, and its ok if its the repub arizona legislature? Explain that to me.

Quantum windbad has justified this for the arizona repub legislature, saying they had to balance their budget, make hard choices, and they did. I can accept that if you will agree the feds will face the exact same choice, and if it is ok for the ariz. Repub legislature to make that choice, it will also be ok for the fed. Gov. To make that choice.

will there ever be enough money for goevrnment to give everyone all the health care they want?

no

I agree with bigrebnc1775, the answer is no.

Revere, if you don't want the govt. telling you what to do at the end of your life, are you wealthy and going to just pay for your options yourself out of your pocket, or are you going to buy a private insurance policy to cover your desires at the age of 80 or 90 or 100 years and just how much a monthly premium are you expecting to pay? Or what's your other plan, or do you thing the govt. should provide the money to give everyone all the healthcare they want?

 

[Revere]

will there ever be enough money for goevrnment to give everyone all the health care they want?

no

I agree with bigrebnc1775, the answer is no.

Revere, if you don't want the govt. telling you what to do at the end of your life, are you wealthy and going to just pay for your options yourself out of your pocket, or are you going to buy a private insurance policy to cover your desires at the age of 80 or 90 or 100 years and just how much a monthly premium are you expecting to pay? Or what's your other plan, or do you thing the govt. should provide the money to give everyone all the healthcare they want?

My private health insurance works fine. There are already programs to take care of the elderly who have planned their whole lives around Medicare, and the truly poor.

 

[finebead]

Heres what Arizona did with the stimulus money
What's in the stimulus package for Arizona?

And

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an unprecedented effort to jumpstart our economy, create or save millions of jobs, and put a down payment on addressing long-neglected challenges so our country can thrive in the 21st century. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act is an extraordinary response to a crisis unlike any since the Great Depression. With much at stake, the Act provides for unprecedented levels of transparency and accountability so that you will be able to know how, when, and where your tax dollars are being spent. Spearheaded by a new Recovery Board, this Act contains built-in measures to root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending. This website, Recovery.gov, will be the main vehicle to provide each and every citizen with the ability to monitor the progress of the recovery.

Arizona Department of Health Services

All of which has nothing to do with the decision by the arizona repub legislature to craft a budget with a massive cut in STATE medicaid spending and tell the transplant patients they had approved that they would not provide funding for their transplants. The state made that decision, it was the state's program, and the states repub crafted and approved budget.

Massachusetts cut Romney care too. So what?

Why give up what we have for the promises of people who have accomplished nothing, and the false utopia of government assured health care?

Why should I give up my health care for that bullshit?

You have to give up your healthcare because it's expense is growing at twice the rate of inflation and has been for over two decades. We simply can't afford it. Industry has fallen to an alltime low of only 38% of companies still provide healthcare to their employees, because the cost went up too high.

Retirees have only one option, medicare. Once the nation decided you would get your healthcare from your job, what do you do when your job ends? If you managed to have employer paid health insurance in retirement, you were one of the very few. The automakers did it under union contract until it drove them to bankruptcy. IBM did it, but no longer do for current employees below a certain age, so it is going away.

So, in retirement, you will be on medicare. You will be on the govt. plan, and they will not have the money to provide everyone with all the healthcare they want. Get used to it.

If you don't like it, describe the plan you think the nation should adopt.

 

[Revere]

All of which has nothing to do with the decision by the arizona repub legislature to craft a budget with a massive cut in STATE medicaid spending and tell the transplant patients they had approved that they would not provide funding for their transplants. The state made that decision, it was the state's program, and the states repub crafted and approved budget.

Massachusetts cut Romney care too. So what?

Why give up what we have for the promises of people who have accomplished nothing, and the false utopia of government assured health care?

Why should I give up my health care for that bullshit?

You have to give up your healthcare because it's expense is growing at twice the rate of inflation and has been for over two decades. We simply can't afford it. Industry has fallen to an alltime low of only 38% of companies still provide healthcare to their employees, because the cost went up too high.

Retirees have only one option, medicare. Once the nation decided you would get your healthcare from your job, what do you do when your job ends? If you managed to have employer paid health insurance in retirement, you were one of the very few. The automakers did it under union contract until it drove them to bankruptcy. IBM did it, but no longer do for current employees below a certain age, so it is going away.

So, in retirement, you will be on medicare. You will be on the govt. plan, and they will not have the money to provide everyone with all the healthcare they want. Get used to it.

If you don't like it, describe the plan you think the nation should adopt.

Every aspect of health care government has encroached upon has gotten worse and not better.

Government has no utopia to replace what I have.

 

[Revere]

"The nation" has no collectivist solutions for individual health care problems.

 

[finebead]

Massachusetts cut Romney care too. So what?

Why give up what we have for the promises of people who have accomplished nothing, and the false utopia of government assured health care?

Why should I give up my health care for that bullshit?

You have to give up your healthcare because it's expense is growing at twice the rate of inflation and has been for over two decades. We simply can't afford it. Industry has fallen to an alltime low of only 38% of companies still provide healthcare to their employees, because the cost went up too high.

Retirees have only one option, medicare. Once the nation decided you would get your healthcare from your job, what do you do when your job ends? If you managed to have employer paid health insurance in retirement, you were one of the very few. The automakers did it under union contract until it drove them to bankruptcy. IBM did it, but no longer do for current employees below a certain age, so it is going away.

So, in retirement, you will be on medicare. You will be on the govt. plan, and they will not have the money to provide everyone with all the healthcare they want. Get used to it.

If you don't like it, describe the plan you think the nation should adopt.

Every aspect of health care government has encroached upon has gotten worse and not better.

Government has no utopia to replace what I have.

So, what do you have?

 

[finebead]

"The nation" has no collectivist solutions for individual health care problems.

This dumb soundbite does not lead to a solution.

There are 40 million people over the age of 65 in this country, and the private insurance industry would not insure them due to pre-existing conditions, and if it would, it would not charge a price that very many of they could afford to pay.

So, we have a collective problem, and it requires a collective solution. Your point is irrelevant.

 

[Revere]

"The nation" has no collectivist solutions for individual health care problems.

This dumb soundbite does not lead to a solution.

There are 40 million people over the age of 65 in this country, and the private insurance industry would not insure them due to pre-existing conditions, and if it would, it would not charge a price that very many of they could afford to pay.

So, we have a collective problem, and it requires a collective solution. Your point is irrelevant.

The 40 million people over 65 were promised something government is not willing or able to give them now, are they?

Government has no solutions. Just generations of failure and insolvency.

Don't be a sucker for government.

 

[Revere]

A government $14T in debt is in a position to promise no one anything in terms of financial security.

 

[goshinj]

Back to the original "death panel" issue. Lets remember that both republicans AND democrats refused this. You can call it what you want such as end of life planning, wellness sessions for later life issues, whatever, it doesn't matter. It's just obama making another decision on his own instead of listening to the people. Sure if you think it's fine for the gov. to continue putting its head up your ass every time it wants to then go ahead and agree with it. Whatever happened to the US having citizens who were free to make their own decisions when and how they chose? Why does the gov. even have to try and intervene here? Whatever..........

 

[B. Kidd]

End of life counseling? What a fukin' joke!
Most need counseling at some point during their life, not at the end.
Gubmint got it wrong again.

 

[finebead]

"The nation" has no collectivist solutions for individual health care problems.

This dumb soundbite does not lead to a solution.

There are 40 million people over the age of 65 in this country, and the private insurance industry would not insure them due to pre-existing conditions, and if it would, it would not charge a price that very many of they could afford to pay.

So, we have a collective problem, and it requires a collective solution. Your point is irrelevant.

The 40 million people over 65 were promised something government is not willing or able to give them now, are they?

Government has no solutions. Just generations of failure and insolvency.

Don't be a sucker for government.

Medicare is still available and working. What is failing is the medical community itself with costs accelerating at twice the rate of inflation for the last couple of decades. It is killing BOTH medicare and private plans (that force more and more premium increases on folks so they can't afford to participate even in many private group plans.

So Revere, what is your plan for the nation, especially for those over 65? A private insurance plan for everyone? What will the monthly premiums be when you are 70, and 80, and 90, and 100, and 110? A private plan in Tx just quoted me 500 a month for age 63, healthy male, with 5,000 deductible and the right to refuse me if I have a serious pre-existing condition. Wife would be a bit less, say 400. At retirement that would be about 900 a month with 10,000 deductible. What will that cost at 70, 80, 90, 100, and 110? Would the plan be able to refuse anyone, or must they ensure? How would that affect the monthly premium? Most folks over 65 can't afford that solution, so I don't think your private insurance plan would work. What's your other plan, back to the indians and just leave grandma on the trail with a little food and water?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

"The nation" has no collectivist solutions for individual health care problems.

This dumb soundbite does not lead to a solution.

There are 40 million people over the age of 65 in this country, and the private insurance industry would not insure them due to pre-existing conditions, and if it would, it would not charge a price that very many of they could afford to pay.

So, we have a collective problem, and it requires a collective solution. Your point is irrelevant.

The 40 million people over 65 were promised something government is not willing or able to give them now, are they?

Government has no solutions. Just generations of failure and insolvency.

Don't be a sucker for government.

That was too easy to turn around on him.

As long as the collective solution is done by local communities and not the federal government it will work. If its done by the feds then it will fail according to their own track record.