The Repug have their backs to the wall and they know it

[Richard-H]

The repugs have 2 choices:

Raise the debt ceiling or raise the debt ceiling.

They know damn well that if they do not raise the debt ceiling the ensuing economic collapse means:

First, their 'base' is going to lose wealth like never before. It'll make the 2008 collapse look like boom times. They will have no base. The GOP will be KAPUT!

Second, once the economic catastrophe is evident, the President is just going to invoke the 14th amendment and order the Treasury to pay it's bills anyway.

Third, they'll lose so much support (their former base will be too busy filing for bankruptcy to care about politics), that Obama will dictate the upcoming budget - and it will be a strictly Democratic one.

Their only real choice is to raise the debt ceiling and take the best they can get for a budget deal.

Sure, they'll lose face with their 'core', but what does that matter? Who else are these wingnuts going to vote for? By the time 2012 comes aroung the GOP spin machine will paint the whole fiasco ever color but true.

 

[Avatar4321]

Where does the 14th amendment authorize the President to do anything concerning the budget?

And the dirty little secret here is that we still have money to pay.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama is pulling out all the stops on this one. Today I see reported that he is saying people won't get their SS checks if this isn't done.
Next thing he will say soldiers will not get paid and will be stuck in mid-fire fight with no bullets to shoot back with.
Obama will cave on the debt ceiling because he must. He is the guy in charge.

 

[freedombecki]

Obama is pulling out all the stops on this one. Today I see reported that he is saying people won't get their SS checks if this isn't done.
Next thing he will say soldiers will not get paid and will be stuck in mid-fire fight with no bullets to shoot back with.
Obama will cave on the debt ceiling because he must. He is the guy in charge.

I hope that happens.

If he sits on his hands, or if he withholds peoples' social security that was originally supposed to be secure and free from Congress using the money for pet projects not related to the retirement of the people who paid into the social security fund, he may not be reelected for the duration.

 

[Richard-H]

Where does the 14th amendment authorize the President to do anything concerning the budget?

And the dirty little secret here is that we still have money to pay.

The 14th Amendment:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned."

Congress already spent the money...now it's time to pay. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

 

[Zona]

Obama is pulling out all the stops on this one. Today I see reported that he is saying people won't get their SS checks if this isn't done.
Next thing he will say soldiers will not get paid and will be stuck in mid-fire fight with no bullets to shoot back with.
Obama will cave on the debt ceiling because he must. He is the guy in charge.

Any comments now? The debt ceiling will be raised but he will "cave" to what? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about. Of course the ceiling will be raised.....everyone who knows ANYTHING about this kew it would happen, but what will he "cave" in to?

3 days, it took 3 days for ol mcchinless to "cave".

 

[freedombecki]

Where does the 14th amendment authorize the President to do anything concerning the budget?

And the dirty little secret here is that we still have money to pay.

The 14th Amendment:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned."

Congress already spent the money...now it's time to pay. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

Make spendthrift congresscritters pay at the polls. Replace big spenders with people who will just say no to raising taxes.

 

[Richard-H]

Where does the 14th amendment authorize the President to do anything concerning the budget?

And the dirty little secret here is that we still have money to pay.

The 14th Amendment:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned."

Congress already spent the money...now it's time to pay. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

Make spendthrift congresscritters pay at the polls. Replace big spenders with people who will just say no to raising taxes.

Have you ever considered that large federal budgets are just a neccessary reality that goes along with living in the greatest nation that has ever existed?

Perhaps your assumption that Congress wastes huge amounts of money or that this nation could possibly remain the great nation that it is without taxes, is utterly false.

Go live in some thrid world shit hole if you don't want to pay taxes!

Ya get what ya pay for!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Right now I would be happier if neither side were playing chicken on this. But Obama doing scare tactics and in the position of the boy who called wolf.

He is also in the position of someone who has a reputation of folding like a cheap umbrella when it comes to the crunch.

We have been through shutdowns before. Social security checks still went out. The army still fought. The jails still held their inmates and the inmates got fed.

There will be no calamity. There will be a lot of egg on Obama's face

It won't be good for the Republican's either. They do have the reputation of taking things to the wall for really stupid stuff. I was looking at someone's list of the targeted tax cuts they refused to consider eliminating. Most of them are really esoteric and the kinds of things that really don't belong in tax policy anyway. They just don't want to break on the issue of raising any tax unless and until they get the real cuts they want.

anyway, over the next 19 days both sides are going to squirm against their promises. The Democrats bring some real cuts to the table , we might get those really goofy targeted tax breaks cleaned up. Which is good policy anyway.

But unless and until the Democrats go for real, the Republicans aren't going to be the only adults in the room

 

[Richard-H]

Right now I would be happier if neither side were playing chicken on this. But Obama doing scare tactics and in the position of the boy who called wolf.

He is also in the position of someone who has a reputation of folding like a cheap umbrella when it comes to the crunch.

We have been through shutdowns before. Social security checks still went out. The army still fought. The jails still held their inmates and the inmates got fed.

There will be no calamity. There will be a lot of egg on Obama's face

It won't be good for the Republican's either. They do have the reputation of taking things to the wall for really stupid stuff. I was looking at someone's list of the targeted tax cuts they refused to consider eliminating. Most of them are really esoteric and the kinds of things that really don't belong in tax policy anyway. They just don't want to break on the issue of raising any tax unless and until they get the real cuts they want.

anyway, over the next 19 days both sides are going to squirm against their promises. The Democrats bring some real cuts to the table , we might get those really goofy targeted tax breaks cleaned up. Which is good policy anyway.

But unless and until the Democrats go for real, the Republicans aren't going to be the only adults in the room

Admittedly, the President has a history of caving in.

But, you wrong if youthink that things will go on as normal if the debt ceiling isn't raised. It's one thing to shut the government down, it's entirely different for the government to default. That has NEVER happened before. It will reek havoc on the world's economy - it amy not be recoverable.

No the government cannot pay SS or medicare or anything else if the debt ceiling isn't raised.

The outcome may very well be that the U.S. dollar will no longer be the world's currency reserve.

Say hello to the Chinese millenia!

 

[freedombecki]

The 14th Amendment:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned."

Congress already spent the money...now it's time to pay. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

Make spendthrift congresscritters pay at the polls. Replace big spenders with people who will just say no to raising taxes.

[1] Have you ever considered that large federal budgets are just a neccessary reality that goes along with living in the greatest nation that has ever existed?

[2] Perhaps your assumption that Congress wastes huge amounts of money or that this nation could possibly remain the great nation that it is without taxes, is utterly false.

[3] Go live in some [sic]thrid world [First Stage Freudian term omitted] hole if you don't want to pay taxes!

[4] Ya get what ya pay for!

[1] Taxing people to death diminishes people. Money can buy some benefits, but not all. A modicum of restraint in spending furnishes a way to balance a budget. People are very satisfied when they have enough money to save some back for the better things in life. Restraint doesn't kill people. The benefits of putting off having a really nice thing until you can pay cash for it are undescribably happy.
[2] Congress, in manipulating billions, doesn't always notice they just paid $2,500 for a $59. toilet lid. I could list thousands of incidents, but surely you have heard of those past scandals if not in person, possibly in a national consumer class at university? I've assumed nothing I know as a fact about Congress's past errors. You may not have even been born when these issues were front page news.
[3] No.
[4] No you don't get what you pay for if you look the other way long enough and a dishonest political seller sees that you are a gullible mark. Did you miss the entire Blago scandal?

 

[auditor0007]

The 14th Amendment:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned."

Congress already spent the money...now it's time to pay. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

Make spendthrift congresscritters pay at the polls. Replace big spenders with people who will just say no to raising taxes.

Have you ever considered that large federal budgets are just a neccessary reality that goes along with living in the greatest nation that has ever existed?

Perhaps your assumption that Congress wastes huge amounts of money or that this nation could possibly remain the great nation that it is without taxes, is utterly false.

Go live in some thrid world shit hole if you don't want to pay taxes!

Ya get what ya pay for!

To be fair, we are overspending and some of it needs to be cut. At the same time though, tax cuts over the last thirty years have put us in a situation where we are collecting much less as a percentage of GDP than anytime in the past 60 years. This needs to change, and it means closing loopholes or simply raising taxes, and that does mean on everyone. However, since the super wealthy have received by far the greatest benefit from these tax cuts, they need to cough up a much bigger percentage than everyone else. And I'm tired of hearing about fairness. It has nothing to do about fairness. It has to do with paying our bills. And if you really want to bring up the fairness issue, it isn't fair that the super wealthy have increased their wealth so dramatically while the rest of Americans have seen theirs diminish. It's bad for everybody.

 

[oreo]

The repugs have 2 choices:

Raise the debt ceiling or raise the debt ceiling.

They know damn well that if they do not raise the debt ceiling the ensuing economic collapse means:

First, their 'base' is going to lose wealth like never before. It'll make the 2008 collapse look like boom times. They will have no base. The GOP will be KAPUT!

Second, once the economic catastrophe is evident, the President is just going to invoke the 14th amendment and order the Treasury to pay it's bills anyway.

Third, they'll lose so much support (their former base will be too busy filing for bankruptcy to care about politics), that Obama will dictate the upcoming budget - and it will be a strictly Democratic one.

Their only real choice is to raise the debt ceiling and take the best they can get for a budget deal.

Sure, they'll lose face with their 'core', but what does that matter? Who else are these wingnuts going to vote for? By the time 2012 comes aroung the GOP spin machine will paint the whole fiasco ever color but true.

House Republicans can do what Newt Gingrich suggested tonight which is BRILLIANT. Obama has again used his scare tactic--now it's social security checks may not be sent out on Aug. 3rd.

WELL--the house republicans can agree to raise the debt ceiling by 100 billion dollars to cover social security/medicare/and whatever else--while cutting 100 billion elsewhere out of the budget. They can do this for every single month--until we get this professional golfer out of office.

And this throws the ball right back in Barack Obama's LAP. Will Barack Obama and senate democrats vote down a bill that protects seniors checks? If they do it will be THEY that will be BLAMED for not getting those checks out.

DO IT HOUSE REPUBLICANS! DO IT--DO IT--DO IT.

 

[Political Junky]

Obama has manipulated the Cons perfectly.

 

[whitehall]

America's back is to the wall. We know that politicians can't keep their hands off revenue. Social Security proved that. What needs to be done? Increase taxes on corporations that hire people and produce the goods that we need? Put the guitar down for a minute and think. What do we need to do? We need to cut spending. Why do democ-rats refuse to understand thet basic concept?

 

[oreo]

Make spendthrift congresscritters pay at the polls. Replace big spenders with people who will just say no to raising taxes.

Have you ever considered that large federal budgets are just a neccessary reality that goes along with living in the greatest nation that has ever existed?

Perhaps your assumption that Congress wastes huge amounts of money or that this nation could possibly remain the great nation that it is without taxes, is utterly false.

Go live in some thrid world shit hole if you don't want to pay taxes!

Ya get what ya pay for!

To be fair, we are overspending and some of it needs to be cut. At the same time though, tax cuts over the last thirty years have put us in a situation where we are collecting much less as a percentage of GDP than anytime in the past 60 years. This needs to change, and it means closing loopholes or simply raising taxes, and that does mean on everyone. However, since the super wealthy have received by far the greatest benefit from these tax cuts, they need to cough up a much bigger percentage than everyone else. And I'm tired of hearing about fairness. It has nothing to do about fairness. It has to do with paying our bills. And if you really want to bring up the fairness issue, it isn't fair that the super wealthy have increased their wealth so dramatically while the rest of Americans have seen theirs diminish. It's bad for everybody.

We don't need to raise taxes--we need more TAXPAYERS. I agree close some of these loopholes--and get rid of these ridiculous subsidies--aka corporate welfare. And then it's high time that the 50% of this country whom pay no Federal income tax--start paying some. It's not fair that the top 10% in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base revenue of it. It results in punishing success while rewarding failure. It's called wealth redistribution--aka socialism. And we see how well that is working in Europe right now.

There simply is not enough wealth in this entire country to pay for 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities--resulting with baby-boomers now entering social security/medicare at 18,000 daily which will continue for the next 15 years. Someone needs to get serious--about cutting the size and scope of the Federal Government with a very sharp knife. And it sure isn't Barack Obama.



1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.



1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets--NOTE: how small the man is in this chart.

Now if you liberals can tell us who we're going to tax to get 78--(14.3 trillion in red ink now with another 64 looming)--of the above trillion dollar chart to pay this tab-then let us know about it--

 

[auditor0007]

Have you ever considered that large federal budgets are just a neccessary reality that goes along with living in the greatest nation that has ever existed?

Perhaps your assumption that Congress wastes huge amounts of money or that this nation could possibly remain the great nation that it is without taxes, is utterly false.

Go live in some thrid world shit hole if you don't want to pay taxes!

Ya get what ya pay for!

To be fair, we are overspending and some of it needs to be cut. At the same time though, tax cuts over the last thirty years have put us in a situation where we are collecting much less as a percentage of GDP than anytime in the past 60 years. This needs to change, and it means closing loopholes or simply raising taxes, and that does mean on everyone. However, since the super wealthy have received by far the greatest benefit from these tax cuts, they need to cough up a much bigger percentage than everyone else. And I'm tired of hearing about fairness. It has nothing to do about fairness. It has to do with paying our bills. And if you really want to bring up the fairness issue, it isn't fair that the super wealthy have increased their wealth so dramatically while the rest of Americans have seen theirs diminish. It's bad for everybody.

We don't need to raise taxes--we need more TAXPAYERS. I agree close some of these loopholes--and get rid of these ridiculous subsidies--aka corporate welfare. And then it's high time that the 50% of this country whom pay no Federal income tax--start paying some. It's not fair that the top 10% in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base revenue of it. It results in punishing success while rewarding failure. It's called wealth redistribution--aka socialism. And we see how well that is working in Europe right now.

There simply is not enough wealth in this entire country to pay for 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities--resulting with baby-boomers now entering social security/medicare at 18,000 daily which will continue for the next 15 years. Someone needs to get serious--about cutting the size and scope of the Federal Government with a very sharp knife. And it sure isn't Barack Obama.

View attachment 14076

1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.

View attachment 14077

1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets--NOTE: how small the man is in this chart.

Now if you liberals can tell us who we're going to tax to get 78--(14.3 trillion in red ink now with another 64 looming)--of the above trillion dollar chart to pay this tab-then let us know about it--

When the top 10% in this country have increased their wealth so dramatically over the last 20 to 30 years while much of the rest of the country have lost wealth, it is obvious to see where the redistribution of wealth has gone, and it certainly has not been to the lower 90%. The simple fact is that the top 10% are not paying anywhere near the going rates. Some are barely paying at all, and a great many are paying less than most middle class Americans.

We do need to increase the number of taxpayers, but it's not going to happen by giving the wealthy tax breaks so that they will create more jobs. The evidence is clear; the wealthy do not re-invest excess amounts of money into creating jobs. If they did, our economy would be booming instead of being in the dumps. Most job growth is created by middle income people who have a drive to make something more, not by those who already have more money than they know what to do with. Give the tax breaks to the little guys who actually are willing to start new businesses. It's not for everyone, and you can't just give those breaks to everyone hoping for the best.

 

[oreo]

To be fair, we are overspending and some of it needs to be cut. At the same time though, tax cuts over the last thirty years have put us in a situation where we are collecting much less as a percentage of GDP than anytime in the past 60 years. This needs to change, and it means closing loopholes or simply raising taxes, and that does mean on everyone. However, since the super wealthy have received by far the greatest benefit from these tax cuts, they need to cough up a much bigger percentage than everyone else. And I'm tired of hearing about fairness. It has nothing to do about fairness. It has to do with paying our bills. And if you really want to bring up the fairness issue, it isn't fair that the super wealthy have increased their wealth so dramatically while the rest of Americans have seen theirs diminish. It's bad for everybody.

We don't need to raise taxes--we need more TAXPAYERS. I agree close some of these loopholes--and get rid of these ridiculous subsidies--aka corporate welfare. And then it's high time that the 50% of this country whom pay no Federal income tax--start paying some. It's not fair that the top 10% in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base revenue of it. It results in punishing success while rewarding failure. It's called wealth redistribution--aka socialism. And we see how well that is working in Europe right now.

There simply is not enough wealth in this entire country to pay for 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities--resulting with baby-boomers now entering social security/medicare at 18,000 daily which will continue for the next 15 years. Someone needs to get serious--about cutting the size and scope of the Federal Government with a very sharp knife. And it sure isn't Barack Obama.

View attachment 14076

1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.

View attachment 14077

1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets--NOTE: how small the man is in this chart.

Now if you liberals can tell us who we're going to tax to get 78--(14.3 trillion in red ink now with another 64 looming)--of the above trillion dollar chart to pay this tab-then let us know about it--

When the top 10% in this country have increased their wealth so dramatically over the last 20 to 30 years while much of the rest of the country have lost wealth, it is obvious to see where the redistribution of wealth has gone, and it certainly has not been to the lower 90%. The simple fact is that the top 10% are not paying anywhere near the going rates. Some are barely paying at all, and a great many are paying less than most middle class Americans.

We do need to increase the number of taxpayers, but it's not going to happen by giving the wealthy tax breaks so that they will create more jobs. The evidence is clear; the wealthy do not re-invest excess amounts of money into creating jobs. If they did, our economy would be booming instead of being in the dumps. Most job growth is created by middle income people who have a drive to make something more, not by those who already have more money than they know what to do with. Give the tax breaks to the little guys who actually are willing to start new businesses. It's not for everyone, and you can't just give those breaks to everyone hoping for the best.

Barack Obama's proposal is to raise taxes to 39% on anyone making 250K. This is the same amount as large--multi--billion dollar corporations pay. This 250K crowd hits right in the heart of small business people--aka sub-chapter S corporations that are also the largest employer in this country. Now if you add in state and local taxes--you're asking this mom and pop shop to pay .50 cents on every dollar they earn.

Now do you really believe that a small business is going to "risk" it all to open or expand a business--hire more employees--put up with all the headaches and heartaches of managing their own business--which requires working 7 days a week--skipping vacations--and literally busting butt--so they can launch themselves into this tax bracket? NO WAY.

This administration is the most anti-business administration I have ever witnessed in my 30+ years of being a small business person. What we do--and what you're witnessing with unemployment in this country still high--is that they tuck in like a turtle until the threat is gone. And that threat is Barack OBAMA.

 

[The Rabbi]

To be fair, we are overspending and some of it needs to be cut. At the same time though, tax cuts over the last thirty years have put us in a situation where we are collecting much less as a percentage of GDP than anytime in the past 60 years. This needs to change, and it means closing loopholes or simply raising taxes, and that does mean on everyone. However, since the super wealthy have received by far the greatest benefit from these tax cuts, they need to cough up a much bigger percentage than everyone else. And I'm tired of hearing about fairness. It has nothing to do about fairness. It has to do with paying our bills. And if you really want to bring up the fairness issue, it isn't fair that the super wealthy have increased their wealth so dramatically while the rest of Americans have seen theirs diminish. It's bad for everybody.

We don't need to raise taxes--we need more TAXPAYERS. I agree close some of these loopholes--and get rid of these ridiculous subsidies--aka corporate welfare. And then it's high time that the 50% of this country whom pay no Federal income tax--start paying some. It's not fair that the top 10% in this country pays 67% of the entire tax base revenue of it. It results in punishing success while rewarding failure. It's called wealth redistribution--aka socialism. And we see how well that is working in Europe right now.

There simply is not enough wealth in this entire country to pay for 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities--resulting with baby-boomers now entering social security/medicare at 18,000 daily which will continue for the next 15 years. Someone needs to get serious--about cutting the size and scope of the Federal Government with a very sharp knife. And it sure isn't Barack Obama.

View attachment 14076

1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.

View attachment 14077

1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets--NOTE: how small the man is in this chart.

Now if you liberals can tell us who we're going to tax to get 78--(14.3 trillion in red ink now with another 64 looming)--of the above trillion dollar chart to pay this tab-then let us know about it--

When the top 10% in this country have increased their wealth so dramatically over the last 20 to 30 years while much of the rest of the country have lost wealth, it is obvious to see where the redistribution of wealth has gone, and it certainly has not been to the lower 90%. The simple fact is that the top 10% are not paying anywhere near the going rates. Some are barely paying at all, and a great many are paying less than most middle class Americans.

We do need to increase the number of taxpayers, but it's not going to happen by giving the wealthy tax breaks so that they will create more jobs. The evidence is clear; the wealthy do not re-invest excess amounts of money into creating jobs. If they did, our economy would be booming instead of being in the dumps. Most job growth is created by middle income people who have a drive to make something more, not by those who already have more money than they know what to do with. Give the tax breaks to the little guys who actually are willing to start new businesses. It's not for everyone, and you can't just give those breaks to everyone hoping for the best.

That is simply a fallacy. The middle class is far better off today than it was 40 years ago, enjoying a lifestyle that only the very wealthy could afford then.
Your fantasy of a plutocracy in this country is just that, fantasy.
What do you think "the wealthy" do with their money?

 

[Anachronism]

The Republicans are in a tough spot. Stuck between the proverbial Rock and the Hard Place....

If they raise the debt ceiling without getting major concessions from the Administration, they will lose ALL support from the Conservatives and ensure they have no chance of winning in 2012.

If they raise the debt ceiling after getting major concessions from the Administration, they will be branded as having killed old people, starved children, and thrown the poor out on their asses. While that will play well with the Conservatives in the country (including myself); it will be tough to overcome in 2012.

If they don't raise the debt ceiling, there's a chance for possibly the greatest economic upheaval in US History; possibly leading to major changes in US society. Those changes might even include the US Citizenry getting off their asses and taking the Government back from the politicians.

Either of the latter options is fine with me.