The Republican Health Care Proposal: Your non partisan opinion of its merits

[Modbert]

Where were the Republicans talking about their great ideas for Health Care when they ran Congress?

Not sure I'd want them directing on what should be in this bill.

Especially when this was their last piece of legislation in that arena (and a great example of the way the GOP ran things while running Congress):

Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The bill was debated and negotiated for nearly six years in Congress, and finally passed amid unusual circumstances. Several times in the legislative process the bill had appeared to have failed, but each time was saved when a couple of Congressmen and Senators switched positions on the bill.
The bill was introduced in the House of Representatives early on June 25, 2003 as H.R. 1, sponsored by Speaker Dennis Hastert. All that day and the next the bill was debated, and it was apparent that the bill would be very divisive. In the early morning of June 27, a floor vote was taken. After the initial electronic vote, the count stood at 214 yeas, 218 nays.

Three Republican representatives then changed their votes. One opponent of the bill, Ernest J. Istook, Jr. (R-OK-5), changed his vote to "present" upon being told that C.W. Bill Young (R-FL-10), who was absent due to a death in the family, would have voted "aye" if he had been present. Next, Republicans Butch Otter (ID-1) and Jo Ann Emerson (MO-8) switched their vote to "aye" under pressure from the party leadership. The bill passed by one vote, 216-215.

On June 26, the Senate passed its version of the bill, 76-21. The bills were unified in conference, and on November 21, the bill came back to the House for approval.

The bill came to a vote at 3 a.m. on November 22. After 45 minutes, the bill was losing, 219-215, with David Wu (D-OR-1) not voting. Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Leader Tom DeLay sought to convince some of dissenting Republicans to switch their votes, as they had in June. Istook, who had always been a wavering vote, consented quickly, producing a 218-216 tally. In a highly unusual move, the House leadership held the vote open for hours as they sought two more votes.

Then-Representative Nick Smith (R-MI) claimed he was offered campaign funds for his son,

who was running to replace him, in return for a change in his vote from "nay" to "yea." After controversy ensued, Smith clarified no explicit offer of campaign funds was made, but that that he was offered "substantial and aggressive campaign support" which he had assumed included financial support.[14]

About 5:50 a.m., convinced Otter and Trent Franks (AZ-2) to switch their votes. With passage assured, Wu voted yea as well, and Democrats Calvin M. Dooley (CA-20), Jim Marshall (GA-3) and David Scott (GA-13) changed their votes to the affirmative. But Brad Miller (D-NC-13), and then, Republican John Culberson (TX-7), reversed their votes from "yea" to "nay". The bill passed 220-215.

The Democrats cried foul, and Bill Thomas, the Republican chairman of the Ways and Means committee, challenged the result in a gesture to satisfy the concerns of the minority. He subsequently voted to table his own challenge; the tally to table was 210 ayes, 193 noes.

The Dracula Congress at it's finest. And they were even gone before the sun rose before they turned into dust.

 

[uscitizen]

First Amendment; ...redress of grievances.

The American People have declared the lack of health care to be a grievance and have ordered Congress to redress it.

You Occidolts sock puppet?

Some folks want it, lots of folks don't.

And just because some folks want some thing, it does not mean it has to be provided. I want a new car. does that mean congress will give me a new one every year?

We talk. Sometimes we listen. And maybe when we do both we can get some where.

@US Citizen... Where did you read that the RNC was providing abortion coverage?

google it. Their helath care policy included abortion coverage for many years.
I would like to know how many times the benefit was used ?

 

[midcan5]

That is all very nice.... but what do you think of the propositions? As the saying goes, yesterday is a different country. What do you think of the Republican version of reform?

I doubt tort means much in the overall picture, but the others seem fine. Problem is the republicans do nothing when in power, and now try to make the efforts of others fail. Do you have a better link or explanation than your short list.

My mom who is 90 just went into the hospital for shortness of breath, after feeling fine she wanted to go home. They performed 20 odd tests on her, she wanted none. They sent her to rehab, she wanted to go home - finally just left. How do we pay for a system like this as you can bet as sure as hell all the tests were charged to Medicare. We definitely need strong controls and regulations, repubs, and even doubtful dems will deliver, meanwhile those too young for medicare suffer - but we gotta start somewhere.

 

[Jay Canuck]

[SIZE=+1]Rethugs change tune on HC[/SIZE]
Link Excerpt:
The Democrats claim that their plan moving through Congress now will pay for itself with higher taxes and spending cuts and they cite the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office for support. By contrast, when Republicans controlled the House, Senate and White House in 2003, they overcame Democratic opposition to add a deficit-financed prescription drug benefit to Medicare. The program will cost a half-trillion dollars over 10 years, or more by some estimates. With no new taxes or spending offsets accompanying the Medicare drug program, the cost has been added to the federal debt. Some Republicans say they don't believe the CBO's projections that the health care overhaul will pay for itself. As for their newfound worries about big government health expansions, they essentially say: That was then, this is now. Six years ago, "it was standard practice not to pay for things," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, (R-Gay). "We were concerned about it, because it certainly added to the deficit, no question." His 2003 vote has been vindicated, Hatch said, because the prescription drug benefit 'has done a lot of good.'"

 

[Navy1960]

First on petition the Govt. government you are aware there are ways to do that? among them standing in front of the White House with a sign, voting, bring a lawsuit, just to name a few, it is not a power granted to congress mandate the purchase of a good or service from a private entity. The other issue that always seems to amaze me here, especially for those that are supporting this current legislation is this. The party that they are associating with has been known for its staunch support of "choice" especially in reproductive matters , but yet in this one, there are willing to take that away from others who would ask for the same thing in making that choice as to matters of healthcare. The other issue at stake here is really very simple, many of you advocate that this healthcare bill is a good thing because it covers 30 million people, but it does not cover 15 million people, what about them? The other issue is it sends almost half of those people into underserved and underfunded Medicaid programs, and the other half into a limited number of choices in the private market. So how does this healthcare bill meet the goal of reducing costs, making it more affordable, increasing availability for all, and increasing quality? The answer is simple, it doesn't! If you were really for reform then you would want thos things and not a bill that is nothing but a Mandatory insurance/ Medicaid Tax bill. The only good thing this bill does is help with the pre-existing conditions issue which I will remind those that are supporting this bill has wide bi-partisan support and could have been passed with full support in both houses had the democrats in control wanted too.

 

[Oddball]

The only good thing this bill does is help with the pre-existing conditions issue which I will remind those that are supporting this bill has wide bi-partisan support and could have been passed with full support in both houses had the democrats in control wanted too.

Actually, that one of the most farcical aspects of the bill (and brother, that's from a pretty hefty menu of farce).

I mean really....Would you expect to wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowners insurance?

 

[Joe Steel]

First Amendment; ...redress of grievances.

The American People have declared the lack of health care to be a grievance and have ordered Congress to redress it.

You Occidolts sock puppet?

Some folks want it, lots of folks don't.

And just because some folks want some thing, it does not mean it has to be provided. I want a new car. does that mean congress will give me a new one every year?

We talk. Sometimes we listen. And maybe when we do both we can get some where.

@US Citizen... Where did you read that the RNC was providing abortion coverage?

If the American People think old cars are a grievance, they'll develop a program to help their owners buy new cars.

 

[veritas]

The only way to fix the whole [non]system is to make federal laws that are uniform for every state. No one way for Nebraska and another for North Dakota bullshit. Every state:same insurance laws. Then if you want to sell over state lines it would be feasible. Otherwise, NO.

Or we could just sue Medicare for being age discriminatory and as arbitrary and capricious with the 65 y/o requirement and ask that everybody be added.

 

[xotoxi]

I doubt tort means much in the overall picture, but the others seem fine. Problem is the republicans do nothing when in power, and now try to make the efforts of others fail. Do you have a better link or explanation than your short list.

My mom who is 90 just went into the hospital for shortness of breath, after feeling fine she wanted to go home. They performed 20 odd tests on her, she wanted none. They sent her to rehab, she wanted to go home - finally just left. How do we pay for a system like this as you can bet as sure as hell all the tests were charged to Medicare. We definitely need strong controls and regulations, repubs, and even doubtful dems will deliver, meanwhile those too young for medicare suffer - but we gotta start somewhere.

Do you know why all of those tests were done?

Fear of litigation. Your mom didn't want any of those tests...but if the next day, she ended up in the hospital with a massive heart attack and she (or her family) decided to sue because something was missed the other day, she might have a case.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

You would be surprised to read how much Malpractice insurance costs per year.


These are annual rates. from 2002

Not surprisingly, these areas of the country have seen some of the most staggering rises in physician liability insurance premiums. PHICO bumped the price to Texas doctors 83 percent last year. West Virginia obstetricians paid an average of $75,155 in 2001, while their colleagues next door in Kentucky were charged only $41,661.

Faced with rates 20 percent higher in 2002 than last year -- already up as much as 60 percent over 2000 premiums -- "doctors are retiring early, relocating their offices to neighboring states or discontinuing their practices," complains Pennsylvania Attorney General Mike Fisher. "Hospitals are faced with the possibilities of closing trauma units."

Obstetricians, neurosurgeons, emergency physicians and other high-risk specialists have absorbed the brunt of the blow. It can cost an ob-gyn in South Florida $209,000 a year to insure for delivery of babies.

One of my pet ideas is medicade/medicare vouchers for insurance, which is sort of how the Oregon Health Plan works. Medicare encoding is a lucrative and expensive business. When I was a young un, doctors still made house calls. That pretty much ended by the time I was six or seven. Because of all the bureaucracy associated with Medicare, for each doctor there might be one nurse, and six support staff dealing with all the paperwork. Inflation adjusted, the co pays you see for almost all insurance plans are less than what the doctors used to charge for a home visit.

 

[MIPS]

We keep on hearing that the Republicans are just being obstructive, but the Republcan proposal has been around for a long time, and the Dems just wont go for any part of it.


Here are some basic parts to it. I have other things I would like to see as well, but this is the basis for discussion.

1. No mandates for special coverages that folks wouldn't buy on their own. IE, Slacker insurane and the like
2. Expanded Health Savings Acccunt High Deductible plans
3. tort reform to make sure there is a better match with causation, harm and compensation.
4. basic plans available nationwide and nationwide competion on plans
5. wider choice in what you want to insure and what you don't need to insure. Why are gay guys mandated to buy pregnancy insurance?

My own idea that I thin we should try is medicare and medicare users would have the option to buy private insurance through the program, along the same rules as above, so they wouldn't have to go through the state for payment. The could build up HSA balances as well. The states and the Federal government have a miserable record of payment and mind bending stupid coding rules that are probably 75% of the cost of providing health care for these patients.

This is my plan and the Republican plan. Is there any of this you like or dislike and why

Too much at once, why not just take the step that is within the Constitutional Authority of Congress (Commerce Clause Article I, Section 8) and enable interstate competition for insurance sales, step back, observe the results and adjust for any unintended consequences.

Then move on to steps 2,3,4 ...etc....

The Federal Government has shown that it pretty much incapable of doing more than one thing at a time effectively.

 

[uscitizen]

The only way to fix the whole [non]system is to make federal laws that are uniform for every state. No one way for Nebraska and another for North Dakota bullshit. Every state:same insurance laws. Then if you want to sell over state lines it would be feasible. Otherwise, NO.

Or we could just sue Medicare for being age discriminatory and as arbitrary and capricious with the 65 y/o requirement and ask that everybody be added.

with medicare it is not optional in many cases. Most retirees that have company insurance finds that it ends when you become eligable for medicare.
Or at best reverts to a medicare supplement policy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

We keep on hearing that the Republicans are just being obstructive, but the Republcan proposal has been around for a long time, and the Dems just wont go for any part of it.


Here are some basic parts to it. I have other things I would like to see as well, but this is the basis for discussion.

1. No mandates for special coverages that folks wouldn't buy on their own. IE, Slacker insurane and the like
2. Expanded Health Savings Acccunt High Deductible plans
3. tort reform to make sure there is a better match with causation, harm and compensation.
4. basic plans available nationwide and nationwide competion on plans
5. wider choice in what you want to insure and what you don't need to insure. Why are gay guys mandated to buy pregnancy insurance?

My own idea that I thin we should try is medicare and medicare users would have the option to buy private insurance through the program, along the same rules as above, so they wouldn't have to go through the state for payment. The could build up HSA balances as well. The states and the Federal government have a miserable record of payment and mind bending stupid coding rules that are probably 75% of the cost of providing health care for these patients.

This is my plan and the Republican plan. Is there any of this you like or dislike and why

Too much at once, why not just take the step that is within the Constitutional Authority of Congress (Commerce Clause Article I, Section 8) and enable interstate competition for insurance sales, step back, observe the results and adjust for any unintended consequences.

Then move on to steps 2,3,4 ...etc....

The Federal Government has shown that it pretty much incapable of doing more than one thing at a time effectively.

I think that is the most intelligent approach MIPS

 

[sboyle24]

Here is the Republican obstruction method in action against the Republican Health Care bill! This is a socialist bill, and will run this country dry long before any of it's citizens will see the benefits. The country likely couldn't handle a bill like this. There will be death committees who decide who lives and who dies.

gee that was productive.....creating a giant new buracracy and an increase in taxes to pay for it seems odd....

the health care system exists...the insurance industry exists....what not creat a financial incentive to the existing medical and insurance companies to sell insurance and health care to the uninsured....and what not provide a tax break to the individual that is buying this insurance....and allow insurance to be sold nationwide not just statewide....

a national pool if you will rather than a state pool...

file a tax return and a w-2 and you get health insurance....

nah i got i better idea....lets tax the rich the insurance companies and the medical profession to create a fund, to build a buracracy, to make people buy insurance from the newly formed government insurance company....

soon everyone will have a line on their pay stub for national health care tax...same as we do for medicare and social security....neither of which actually provide complete coverage which is why you have to set up an ira or a 401k and by suplemental health insurance....

it is only an illusion that the government will take care of you.....

Wow I thought my fear mongering was good but you really threw some good lies out there! I bet people will be scared enough not to vote for reform now! Thanks!

 

[rdean]

Get real. Republicans have no health care plan. They voted against Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. They consider health care a "business" that's all about making rich people richer.

Republicans don't care about the middle class. Not now and not for at least the last thirty years. Name something possitive they have done in that time for the country. You can't. It's been one scam after another. Two wars. Thousands of Americans dead. Tens of thousands crippled. Millions who have lost their life savings.
Republicans keep saying that Obama should accept all of Bush's failures as his own responsibility because it's been a year. They NEVER take responsibility for anything they've done. Except if it were a "success", and the only way that would happen is by mistacke.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Get real. Republicans have no health care plan. They voted against Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. They consider health care a "business" that's all about making rich people richer.

Republicans don't care about the middle class. Not now and not for at least the last thirty years. Name something possitive they have done in that time for the country. You can't. It's been one scam after another. Two wars. Thousands of Americans dead. Tens of thousands crippled. Millions who have lost their life savings.
Republicans keep saying that Obama should accept all of Bush's failures as his own responsibility because it's been a year. They NEVER take responsibility for anything they've done. Except if it were a "success", and the only way that would happen is by mistacke.

OK RDEAN lets get real.

YouTube - A health care plan for America

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823 Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act
H.R. 3824 Expanded Health Insurance Options Act





Rooting Out Waste, Fraud, Abuse and Enhancing Transparency

H.R. 27 Medicare Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Act
R. 203 Medicare Fraud Prevention Act
H.R. 2249 Health Care Price Transparency Promotion Act
H.R. 2785 Health Care Paperwork Reduction and Fraud Prevention Act



Medical Liability Reform

H.R. 1086 Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare Act
H.R. 1468 Medical Justice Act
H.R. 2787 Medical Liability Procedural Reform Act
H.R. 2975 Medical Practice Protection Act
H.R. 3372 Health Care Over Use Reform Today Act



Prevention/Wellness

H.R. 3468 Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act



Preserving Doctor/Patient Relationship

H.R. 2516 Medical Rights Act
H.R. 3002 Patients Act

 

[jillian]

We keep on hearing that the Republicans are just being obstructive, but the Republcan proposal has been around for a long time, and the Dems just wont go for any part of it.


Here are some basic parts to it. I have other things I would like to see as well, but this is the basis for discussion.

1. No mandates for special coverages that folks wouldn't buy on their own. IE, Slacker insurane and the like
2. Expanded Health Savings Acccunt High Deductible plans
3. tort reform to make sure there is a better match with causation, harm and compensation.
4. basic plans available nationwide and nationwide competion on plans
5. wider choice in what you want to insure and what you don't need to insure. Why are gay guys mandated to buy pregnancy insurance?

My own idea that I thin we should try is medicare and medicare users would have the option to buy private insurance through the program, along the same rules as above, so they wouldn't have to go through the state for payment. The could build up HSA balances as well. The states and the Federal government have a miserable record of payment and mind bending stupid coding rules that are probably 75% of the cost of providing health care for these patients.

This is my plan and the Republican plan. Is there any of this you like or dislike and why

yours is better, smarter and makes more sense if you dump the parts that mimic the GOP "plan"

the republican "plan" if you can call it that is pathetic.

 

[JimH52]

This is not about Health Care folks. This is about taking Obama down. If the GOP stonewalls and just keeps pushing back, the Dems seem content on allowing the minority to rule.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

We keep on hearing that the Republicans are just being obstructive, but the Republcan proposal has been around for a long time, and the Dems just wont go for any part of it.


Here are some basic parts to it. I have other things I would like to see as well, but this is the basis for discussion.

1. No mandates for special coverages that folks wouldn't buy on their own. IE, Slacker insurane and the like
2. Expanded Health Savings Acccunt High Deductible plans
3. tort reform to make sure there is a better match with causation, harm and compensation.
4. basic plans available nationwide and nationwide competion on plans
5. wider choice in what you want to insure and what you don't need to insure. Why are gay guys mandated to buy pregnancy insurance?

My own idea that I thin we should try is medicare and medicare users would have the option to buy private insurance through the program, along the same rules as above, so they wouldn't have to go through the state for payment. The could build up HSA balances as well. The states and the Federal government have a miserable record of payment and mind bending stupid coding rules that are probably 75% of the cost of providing health care for these patients.

This is my plan and the Republican plan. Is there any of this you like or dislike and why

yours is better, smarter and makes more sense if you dump the parts that mimic the GOP "plan"

the republican "plan" if you can call it that is pathetic.

So you dont like the republican plans....now you know how those who oppose obamacare feel .

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The only way to fix the whole [non]system is to make federal laws that are uniform for every state. No one way for Nebraska and another for North Dakota bullshit. Every state:same insurance laws. Then if you want to sell over state lines it would be feasible. Otherwise, NO.

Or we could just sue Medicare for being age discriminatory and as arbitrary and capricious with the 65 y/o requirement and ask that everybody be added.

with medicare it is not optional in many cases. Most retirees that have company insurance finds that it ends when you become eligable for medicare.
Or at best reverts to a medicare supplement policy.

I think that is a result of medicare rules on payments to over 65s, rather than a cause.