The Religion of Government

[☭proletarian☭]

The wicked are estranged from the womb
Psalm 58:3

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 51:5

2For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:22

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men
Romans 5:12

How do any of these verses disprove the statement I made about each of us being responsible for our own sins and not Adam's or Eve's? Do you believe that we should be held responsible for Adam's sins?

Apparently, your god does, as the bible sates numerous times.

 

[Christopher]

The wicked are estranged from the womb
Psalm 58:3

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 51:5

2For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:22

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men
Romans 5:12

How do any of these verses disprove the statement I made about each of us being responsible for our own sins and not Adam's or Eve's? Do you believe that we should be held responsible for Adam's sins?

Apparently, your god does, as the bible sates numerous times.

Show me where it says this in the Bible. The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

How do any of these verses disprove the statement I made about each of us being responsible for our own sins and not Adam's or Eve's? Do you believe that we should be held responsible for Adam's sins?

Apparently, your god does, as the bible sates numerous times.

Show me where it says this in the Bible. The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

We bear the burden and the curse for his sin- we are to pay for his crimes and our sons for ours unto the seventh generation.

You have read your bible, right?

 

[Big Fitz]

So God's not perfect and neither is his law?

Psalms 19:7​

The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.


Only Satan would destroy God's perfect law or inspire men to call God's perfect law 'weak and useless' (Hebrews 17).
​

Like... you are doing?

Hmm. Okay.

 

[Polaris]

It seems to me, a humble atheist, that we are on the verge of a new religious movement in this country; the religion of government.

More people every day are turning to government for hope and assistance. In general people have more faith in government than in themselves or their neighbors.

Government, at least government underwritten by popular sovereignty, cannot be a religion. The authority that government wields in neither supernatural nor above the law.

We are all entitled to the basic dignity of civil non-interference; but that does not mean that we, simply by virtue of being human beings, possessed of the inherent dignity of freedom, are not entitled to certain basic goods and services that are essential for us to be able to even have the opportunity to properly exercise our freedom.

Unfortunately, you Cons are so completely lacking in moral imagination, that you cannot see this. Your adolescent view of freedom, denies the subtle connection between your own, personal freedom, and your obligation to act to ensure the freedom and dignity of your neighbor. You guys remind me of nothing so much as teenagers who complain about having to clean up their room because it is, after all, "their" room...

Though really, there's not much point in reasoning with you. Inveterate selfishness is just part of the Con DNA. We liberals are determined to expand government of, by, and for the people. You'll never be reconciled to this - "screw you" basically sums up your attitude to your neighbor who was not born with the same life chances as you. You're never going to get it. The only way to resolve it is hammer it out politically. It is the liberals' aim, my aim, to convert America to Social Democracy. We're making good progress under Obama... and believe me, we're not finished.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So God's not perfect and neither is his law?

Psalms 19:7​

The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.


Only Satan would destroy God's perfect law or inspire men to call God's perfect law 'weak and useless' (Hebrews 17).
​

Like... you are doing?

Hmm. Okay.

If the OT is true, Jesus can only be a false prophet.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Government, at least government underwritten by popular sovereignty, cannot be a religion. The authority that government wields in neither supernatural nor above the law.

IN an oligarchy, the government and the few who comprise it are oft above the law which binds and oppresses the common man. When the State is viewed some some independent entity beyond approach or criticism, it might as well be a supernatural entity.

 

[Big Fitz]

So God's not perfect and neither is his law?

Psalms 19:7​

The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple.


Only Satan would destroy God's perfect law or inspire men to call God's perfect law 'weak and useless' (Hebrews 17).
​

Like... you are doing?

Hmm. Okay.

If the OT is true, Jesus can only be a false prophet.

Well, If I have to chose between your interpretation and God's as He chooses to reveal to me, I'll stick with God's.

 

[Christopher]

Apparently, your god does, as the bible sates numerous times.

Show me where it says this in the Bible. The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

We bear the burden and the curse for his sin- we are to pay for his crimes and our sons for ours unto the seventh generation.

You have read your bible, right?

Again, please show me where it says this in the Bible. You have yet to do so.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You're the one who said it, genius, in post 62

 

[Christopher]

You're the one who said it, genius, in post 62

Here is what I said: The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

I pointed out that people can be negatively affected by another's actions, however, that does not make them responsible for that person's actions. As an example, parents who divorce can negatively impact their young children, even though the children are not responsible for the divorce.

 

[Smartt33]

Apparently, your god does, as the bible sates numerous times.

Show me where it says this in the Bible. The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

We bear the burden and the curse for his sin- we are to pay for his crimes and our sons for ours unto the seventh generation.

You have read your bible, right?

Humankind does suffer under the curse of Adam and Eve. It is true. It is not a personal suffering, it is a world condition. However, if you understand how that works you would realize that that is not an eternal curse. Because of their sins, death comes to every man. Hardship in childbirth, and in making a living are a part of it. It is a universal curse. We do indeed suffer in it. However, man was made well enough to know how to overcome and press on and have success, even in a curse.

As far as our sins are concerns, yes, we also cause things in the natural world that can lead to suffering of our future generations. That is common knowledge. That also is not an eternal kind of condemnation as is placed upon personal sins that we personally will be held responsible for. You are held accountable to God for your personal sins, your grandkids will NOT be held accountable for your sins. There is a big difference.

My personal relationship with God or lack of it can and usually does have an effect upon the future generations of my family. It also can effect my neighbors and others. That effect is not of a spiritual nature, but of a worldly nature. The sins of those around me can effect my family as well. When a drunk looses control of his car and hits mine killing my family, his sin will have effected my family. Look around you, we are being touched by the immorality and sin of the world because we are in that world. It is not an eternal effect, because the eternal effect (spiritual) is all personal, and about our personal sin, and what we have done about it in relationship with God.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You're the one who said it, genius, in post 62

Here is what I said: The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

 

[Christopher]

You're the one who said it, genius, in post 62

Here is what I said: The passages you quoted discuss that we became subject to spiritual and physical death because of Adam. They say nothing about us being responsible for Adam's sins.

Do you actually believe I said we are responsible for Adam's sins?