The Reality That Awaits Women in Combat

[Wicked Jester]

A nation that does not protect its women is a nation lost, in my opinion. Its not just that women do not have the ability it a natural law kind of thing.

But it is just an indication of the further deterioration of our country.

I really think Penetta has no idea about combat and thinks it is just some kind of game. I hope he rest well when one our women gets captured and raped.

You mean raped repeatedly, sodomized and tortured I think.

Hate to tell you. But a woman in our armed forces is more likely to get raped by one of her fellow soldiers than from the enemy

Now you're just being stupid, RW.....if you've never faced an enemy, it's probably a good time for you to just leave the subject alone.....'cause it's quite obvious you're clueless.

 

[Inthemiddle]

He was out on the streets at least 4 times a week, getting shot at, fighting....and that wasn't what his job was!

It might not have been his primary job. But everyone's secondary MOS is always the same: Infantry.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Nurses are tained to see such, yes? Military or not, right?

Well, uh.....sort of. Goes like this:

Hey, look at this guy taking a piss in a bottle!

The nurse has now been trained to see men pissing in bottles.

 

[Papawx3]

Nurses are tained to see such, yes? Military or not, right?

Well, uh.....sort of. Goes like this:

Hey, look at this guy taking a piss in a bottle!

The nurse has now been trained to see men pissing in bottles.

I'm sure they have. But when was the last time you saw a woman pissing in a bottle alongside a bunch of men?
If women want to endure the same combat hardships as men, then that's fine with me. Just don't expect the men to dig them a hole to urinate in and throw up a wall to keep others from looking on. And don't expect her to be given a humongous roll of tp to wipe herself with. She'll just have to "shake it and put it away" just like the men.
Don't expect the men to slow down when she can't carry that 60lb rucksack or keep up with the rest of the unit.
What do you think is going to happen when she gets her period? Or do you think it won't happen just because she's in a combat situation? Do you think she's going to be able to lay in bed all day because she's cramping and bleeding? No. She'll be required to get up and move out with everyone else.
I served two tours in Vietnam and I have seen the horrors of war - the real ones, not those whitewashed versions you see on tv. When the bullets and ordnance start flying, and body parts are blown off, there will be no room for female hysteria.
While the "Great Social(ism) Experiment" might look and sound good in media sound bites, it won't work when you start putting men and women together in a foxhole.

 

[Oldguy]

Canada's had women in the Infantry since 1989.

They're laughing at us.

 

[bayoubill]

Ryan Smith @ The WSJ:


America has been creeping closer and closer to allowing women in combat, so Wednesday’s news that the decision has now been made is not a surprise. It appears that female soldiers will be allowed on the battlefield but not in the infantry. Yet it is a distinction without much difference: Infantry units serve side-by-side in combat with artillery, engineers, drivers, medics and others who will likely now include women. The Pentagon would do well to consider realities of life in combat as it pushes to mix men and women on the battlefield.

Many articles have been written regarding the relative strength of women and the possible effects on morale of introducing women into all-male units. Less attention has been paid to another aspect: the absolutely dreadful conditions under which grunts live during war.

Most people seem to believe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have merely involved driving out of a forward operating base, patrolling the streets, maybe getting in a quick firefight, and then returning to the forward operating base and its separate shower facilities and chow hall. The reality of modern infantry combat, at least the portion I saw, bore little resemblance to this sanitized view.

I served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq as a Marine infantry squad leader. We rode into war crammed in the back of amphibious assault vehicles. They are designed to hold roughly 15 Marines snugly; due to maintenance issues, by the end of the invasion we had as many as 25 men stuffed into the back. Marines were forced to sit, in full gear, on each other’s laps and in contorted positions for hours on end. That was the least of our problems.

The invasion was a blitzkrieg. The goal was to move as fast to Baghdad as possible. The column would not stop for a lance corporal, sergeant, lieutenant, or even a company commander to go to the restroom. Sometimes we spent over 48 hours on the move without exiting the vehicles. We were forced to urinate in empty water bottles inches from our comrades.

Many Marines developed dysentery from the complete lack of sanitary conditions. When an uncontrollable urge hit a Marine, he would be forced to stand, as best he could, hold an MRE bag up to his rear, and defecate inches from his seated comrade’s face.

During the invasion, we wore chemical protective suits because of the fear of chemical or biological weapon attack. These are equivalent to a ski jumpsuit and hold in the heat. We also had to wear black rubber boots over our desert boots. On the occasions the column did stop, we would quickly peel off our rubber boots, desert boots and socks to let our feet air out.Due to the heat and sweat, layers of our skin would peel off our feet. However, we rarely had time to remove our suits or perform even the most basic hygiene. We quickly developed sores on our bodies.

When we did reach Baghdad, we were in shambles. We had not showered in well over a month and our chemical protective suits were covered in a mixture of filth and dried blood. We were told to strip and place our suits in pits to be burned immediately. My unit stood there in a walled-in compound in Baghdad, naked, sores dotted all over our bodies, feet peeling, watching our suits burn. Later, they lined us up naked and washed us off with pressure washers.

Yes, a woman is as capable as a man of pulling a trigger. But the goal of our nation's military is to fight and win wars. Before taking the drastic step of allowing women to serve in combat units, has the government considered whether introducing women into the above-described situation would have made my unit more or less combat effective?




***snip***

Continue reading: ---->
Ryan Smith: The Reality That Awaits Women in Combat - WSJ.com

chicks trained for combat conditions can do all those things... plus they don't have to worry about getting their nuts blown off, since they don't have any... which, btw, is a huge concern amongst the males in combat...

 

[Papawx3]

Canada's had women in the Infantry since 1989.

They're laughing at us.

Canada has a military??

 

[Claudette]

Ryan Smith @ The WSJ:


America has been creeping closer and closer to allowing women in combat, so Wednesday’s news that the decision has now been made is not a surprise. It appears that female soldiers will be allowed on the battlefield but not in the infantry. Yet it is a distinction without much difference: Infantry units serve side-by-side in combat with artillery, engineers, drivers, medics and others who will likely now include women. The Pentagon would do well to consider realities of life in combat as it pushes to mix men and women on the battlefield.

Many articles have been written regarding the relative strength of women and the possible effects on morale of introducing women into all-male units. Less attention has been paid to another aspect: the absolutely dreadful conditions under which grunts live during war.

Most people seem to believe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have merely involved driving out of a forward operating base, patrolling the streets, maybe getting in a quick firefight, and then returning to the forward operating base and its separate shower facilities and chow hall. The reality of modern infantry combat, at least the portion I saw, bore little resemblance to this sanitized view.

I served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq as a Marine infantry squad leader. We rode into war crammed in the back of amphibious assault vehicles. They are designed to hold roughly 15 Marines snugly; due to maintenance issues, by the end of the invasion we had as many as 25 men stuffed into the back. Marines were forced to sit, in full gear, on each other’s laps and in contorted positions for hours on end. That was the least of our problems.

The invasion was a blitzkrieg. The goal was to move as fast to Baghdad as possible. The column would not stop for a lance corporal, sergeant, lieutenant, or even a company commander to go to the restroom. Sometimes we spent over 48 hours on the move without exiting the vehicles. We were forced to urinate in empty water bottles inches from our comrades.

Many Marines developed dysentery from the complete lack of sanitary conditions. When an uncontrollable urge hit a Marine, he would be forced to stand, as best he could, hold an MRE bag up to his rear, and defecate inches from his seated comrade’s face.

During the invasion, we wore chemical protective suits because of the fear of chemical or biological weapon attack. These are equivalent to a ski jumpsuit and hold in the heat. We also had to wear black rubber boots over our desert boots. On the occasions the column did stop, we would quickly peel off our rubber boots, desert boots and socks to let our feet air out.Due to the heat and sweat, layers of our skin would peel off our feet. However, we rarely had time to remove our suits or perform even the most basic hygiene. We quickly developed sores on our bodies.

When we did reach Baghdad, we were in shambles. We had not showered in well over a month and our chemical protective suits were covered in a mixture of filth and dried blood. We were told to strip and place our suits in pits to be burned immediately. My unit stood there in a walled-in compound in Baghdad, naked, sores dotted all over our bodies, feet peeling, watching our suits burn. Later, they lined us up naked and washed us off with pressure washers.

Yes, a woman is as capable as a man of pulling a trigger. But the goal of our nation's military is to fight and win wars. Before taking the drastic step of allowing women to serve in combat units, has the government considered whether introducing women into the above-described situation would have made my unit more or less combat effective?




***snip***

Continue reading: ---->
Ryan Smith: The Reality That Awaits Women in Combat - WSJ.com

Good post. War is hell in more ways than one.

I am sure there are many woman who could go into combat and do as good a job or better than a male. No doubt about that.

All it will take is for the first woman to be captured and tortured or raped and they will be screaming to remove woman from combat.

Of course any woman going into combat knows that those are the risks. If they want to take em, let em.

Personally. I have no problem with woman in combat but if they want it they better damned sure know the risks.

 

[Dubya]

Ryan Smith @ The WSJ:


America has been creeping closer and closer to allowing women in combat, so Wednesday’s news that the decision has now been made is not a surprise. It appears that female soldiers will be allowed on the battlefield but not in the infantry. Yet it is a distinction without much difference: Infantry units serve side-by-side in combat with artillery, engineers, drivers, medics and others who will likely now include women. The Pentagon would do well to consider realities of life in combat as it pushes to mix men and women on the battlefield.

Many articles have been written regarding the relative strength of women and the possible effects on morale of introducing women into all-male units. Less attention has been paid to another aspect: the absolutely dreadful conditions under which grunts live during war.

Most people seem to believe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have merely involved driving out of a forward operating base, patrolling the streets, maybe getting in a quick firefight, and then returning to the forward operating base and its separate shower facilities and chow hall. The reality of modern infantry combat, at least the portion I saw, bore little resemblance to this sanitized view.

I served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq as a Marine infantry squad leader. We rode into war crammed in the back of amphibious assault vehicles. They are designed to hold roughly 15 Marines snugly; due to maintenance issues, by the end of the invasion we had as many as 25 men stuffed into the back. Marines were forced to sit, in full gear, on each other’s laps and in contorted positions for hours on end. That was the least of our problems.

The invasion was a blitzkrieg. The goal was to move as fast to Baghdad as possible. The column would not stop for a lance corporal, sergeant, lieutenant, or even a company commander to go to the restroom. Sometimes we spent over 48 hours on the move without exiting the vehicles. We were forced to urinate in empty water bottles inches from our comrades.

Many Marines developed dysentery from the complete lack of sanitary conditions. When an uncontrollable urge hit a Marine, he would be forced to stand, as best he could, hold an MRE bag up to his rear, and defecate inches from his seated comrade’s face.

During the invasion, we wore chemical protective suits because of the fear of chemical or biological weapon attack. These are equivalent to a ski jumpsuit and hold in the heat. We also had to wear black rubber boots over our desert boots. On the occasions the column did stop, we would quickly peel off our rubber boots, desert boots and socks to let our feet air out.Due to the heat and sweat, layers of our skin would peel off our feet. However, we rarely had time to remove our suits or perform even the most basic hygiene. We quickly developed sores on our bodies.

When we did reach Baghdad, we were in shambles. We had not showered in well over a month and our chemical protective suits were covered in a mixture of filth and dried blood. We were told to strip and place our suits in pits to be burned immediately. My unit stood there in a walled-in compound in Baghdad, naked, sores dotted all over our bodies, feet peeling, watching our suits burn. Later, they lined us up naked and washed us off with pressure washers.

Yes, a woman is as capable as a man of pulling a trigger. But the goal of our nation's military is to fight and win wars. Before taking the drastic step of allowing women to serve in combat units, has the government considered whether introducing women into the above-described situation would have made my unit more or less combat effective?




***snip***

Continue reading: ---->
Ryan Smith: The Reality That Awaits Women in Combat - WSJ.com

Well let's examine this combat effectiveness by reviewing the article, because I was also in the Marines!

After double checking the details, I'm sure women can get sores on their bodies, skin peeling from their feet, piss and shit just as well as a man can.

 

[Wicked Jester]

He was out on the streets at least 4 times a week, getting shot at, fighting....and that wasn't what his job was!

It might not have been his primary job. But everyone's secondary MOS is always the same: Infantry.

Really?.....My Primary MOS was 11b infantry...My SECONDARY MOS was O5B Radio Communications Specialist.

I love it when people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about, chime in.

 

[rightwinger]

Okay, let women go nto the battlefield as combatants. If and when they are captured will there be an outcry to their treatment? We know what Muslims think of Western women now.
How will Americans reacto to raped, mutilated, tortured and beheaded combatant women soldiers?
How will women behave when they cannot bath or remove and change their clothes for weeks at a time. Can they put up with open air slit latrines in field?

Hey, I'm all for having women in combat roles. Bring it on.

We will react the same way as when we have raped, mutilated, tortured and beheaded combatant men soldiers.......we will bring down the wrath of god on them

 

[rightwinger]

Nurses are tained to see such, yes? Military or not, right?

Well, uh.....sort of. Goes like this:

Hey, look at this guy taking a piss in a bottle!

The nurse has now been trained to see men pissing in bottles.

I'm sure they have. But when was the last time you saw a woman pissing in a bottle alongside a bunch of men?
If women want to endure the same combat hardships as men, then that's fine with me. Just don't expect the men to dig them a hole to urinate in and throw up a wall to keep others from looking on. And don't expect her to be given a humongous roll of tp to wipe herself with. She'll just have to "shake it and put it away" just like the men.
Don't expect the men to slow down when she can't carry that 60lb rucksack or keep up with the rest of the unit.
What do you think is going to happen when she gets her period? Or do you think it won't happen just because she's in a combat situation? Do you think she's going to be able to lay in bed all day because she's cramping and bleeding? No. She'll be required to get up and move out with everyone else.
I served two tours in Vietnam and I have seen the horrors of war - the real ones, not those whitewashed versions you see on tv. When the bullets and ordnance start flying, and body parts are blown off, there will be no room for female hysteria.
While the "Great Social(ism) Experiment" might look and sound good in media sound bites, it won't work when you start putting men and women together in a foxhole.

I don't think women expect any of this. All they want is to serve their country. Pissing and shitting and getting dirty comes with the territory

We just went through this on gays and the military and went through thread after thread on showers. Gays can't serve because of showers

Now, women can't serve because of pissing and shitting

Get over it

 

[Oldguy]

Canada's had women in the Infantry since 1989.

They're laughing at us.

Canada has a military??

I wouldn't make too much fun of them. They were the first to offer troops for the Gulf War and the first to come onboard with us in Afghanistan.

Also, it might be well to note that we've invaded them 4 or 5 times...and got our ass handed to us in every instance.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Women don't need your fucking protection. They're more than capable.

WOW !!! You sure put that guy in his place.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Canada's had women in the Infantry since 1989.

They're laughing at us.

Yeah cause we all know Canada is always at war. They're a bunch of bad ass mofos.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Canada's had women in the Infantry since 1989.

They're laughing at us.

Canada has a military??

I wouldn't make too much fun of them. They were the first to offer troops for the Gulf War and the first to come onboard with us in Afghanistan.

Also, it might be well to note that we've invaded them 4 or 5 times...and got our ass handed to us in every instance.

And what year was that? Canada is pretty passive these days.

 

[rightwinger]

Canada has a military??

I wouldn't make too much fun of them. They were the first to offer troops for the Gulf War and the first to come onboard with us in Afghanistan.

Also, it might be well to note that we've invaded them 4 or 5 times...and got our ass handed to us in every instance.

And what year was that? Canada is pretty passive these days.

It was a hundred years ago, 1813

You are right, Canada is ripe for the taking. We could even use only our wimmin combat troops and kick their asses

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's important because women will have equal opportunity to rise in the ranks.

I thought the idea was to kill the other guy before he can kill you?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Okay, let women go nto the battlefield as combatants. If and when they are captured will there be an outcry to their treatment? We know what Muslims think of Western women now.
How will Americans reacto to raped, mutilated, tortured and beheaded combatant women soldiers?
How will women behave when they cannot bath or remove and change their clothes for weeks at a time. Can they put up with open air slit latrines in field?

Hey, I'm all for having women in combat roles. Bring it on.

We will react the same way as when we have raped, mutilated, tortured and beheaded combatant men soldiers.......we will bring down the wrath of god on them

Why now all of a sudden? Wrath of God? From a lib?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I wouldn't make too much fun of them. They were the first to offer troops for the Gulf War and the first to come onboard with us in Afghanistan.

Also, it might be well to note that we've invaded them 4 or 5 times...and got our ass handed to us in every instance.

And what year was that? Canada is pretty passive these days.

It was a hundred years ago, 1813

You are right, Canada is ripe for the taking. We could even use only our wimmin combat troops and kick their asses

So there is a use for women in combat. Who knew?
So 1813 was a hundred years ago? So you suck at logic and math?