The reality behind Health Care Reform

[rightwinger]

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

Hardly. Health insurance neither causes nor prevents death.

Anybody can buy healthcare just like anybody can buy health insurance.

The problem you lament is either one of poverty or "other priorities". Or both.

Anyone who is healthy can buy healthcare. Those with severe pre-existing conditions need not apply.

Of course you can always pay cash if you have $500,000 hanging around

Right-wingnut healthcare....you can't beat it

 

[loosecannon]

Thanks for proving again the lack of intellectual honesty. Maybe in your fantasy world healthcare and healthins can be bought by anyone who simply wishes to buy it. Outside of that crack filled snow globe it requires money.

(I can only guess how much bullshit will get slung now)

The lack of intellectual integrity is yours. Of course it costs money to buy health care services.

I already said that if you had bothered to merely read.

So 45,000 people die each year of natural causes that might be preventable if they had more money. Duh.

But if we decide to save every life that can be saved no matter what the costs is we will soon be paying 1/3 of our incomes to finance our own health care and the huge Baby boom gen that is just now begining to retire enmasse, as well as the underemployed who are still growing in numbers BTW.

And this triple burden will be borne by a shrinking workforce who had little or nothing to do with the gross(criminal) mismanagement that spawned this problem.

 

[Truthmatters]

Thanks for proving again the lack of intellectual honesty. Maybe in your fantasy world healthcare and healthins can be bought by anyone who simply wishes to buy it. Outside of that crack filled snow globe it requires money.

(I can only guess how much bullshit will get slung now)

The lack of intellectual integrity is yours. Of course it costs money to buy health care services.

I already said that if you had bothered to merely read.

So 45,000 people die each year of natural causes that might be preventable if they had more money. Duh.

But if we decide to save every life that can be saved no matter what the costs is we will soon be paying 1/3 of our incomes to finance our own health care and the huge Baby boom gen that is just now begining to retire enmasse, as well as the underemployed who are still growing in numbers BTW.

And this triple burden will be borne by a shrinking workforce who had little or nothing to do with the gross(criminal) mismanagement that spawned this problem.

Congrats , you just argued for the death of a child because his parents dont make enough money.

 

[loosecannon]

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

Hardly. Health insurance neither causes nor prevents death.

Anybody can buy healthcare just like anybody can buy health insurance.

The problem you lament is either one of poverty or "other priorities". Or both.

Anyone who is healthy can buy healthcare. Those with severe pre-existing conditions need not apply.

Of course you can always pay cash if you have $500,000 hanging around

Right-wingnut healthcare....you can't beat it

There are other alternatives. Health insurance, in fact all insurance, began as cooperatives. Until the recent reform you had complete liberty to form or join a health insurance cooperative at will. That was the plan Dennis Kucinich proposed that was shot down in the house, Dennis ended up voting against the House bill as a result.

But like I said that option expires as soon as the reform bill passes. One more right you and your state lose forever.

Unless of course you think that health care providers should provide care for free.

Actually THAT is my first option. And it is possible. In fact that's how they do it in Cuba. And considering their costs Cuba prolly has 10 times the healthcare benefit/dollar as we do. And the state owns the whole shebang from university to clinic to pharma.

That's a nationwide cooperative btw, distinctly different from what the dems are promoting.

 

[Truthmatters]

How about we take the insurance profit out of the equation.

Health providers remain independent but they recieve their payment through a single payer.

 

[loosecannon]

Congrats , you just argued for the death of a child because his parents dont make enough money.

No I didn't, Liar. Children die. That's part of life. ALL children and adults can not be saved regardless of the costs of care. That is the path toward spending 100% of all of our disposal and surplus income on healthcare.

The healthcare industry is a bottomless pit. There is no end to the number of increasingly expensive treatments they can invent to save lives. Hell they COULD invent health care options that kept us ALL alive to 150 but cost 10 times our GDP.

There are death panels today, and always will be unless you have unlimited money to spend on care.

Now stop lying.

 

[concept]

Tell your conspiracy theory to the familes of your 45,000 fellow Americans who will die this year because they can't access health care. In fact, send them a postcare.

Shit, the right has been resisting universal health care since the early 1900s, with the same lame excuses and the telling US, What't the fucking rush?

I will bet that 99.99999999% or more who are against the reform have health care like the Senators and Congressfolks who are calling this bill anything from worse than terrorism to communism.

Fuck them all. I have no problem elimnating the current tax cut for the super rich and creating a program where all Americans are covered. (Then the will invest back into jobs and the company like they used to.) I know they are all welfare queens, even the folks who work two or more jobs because they can't get coverage from their employees. Also the 13,000 a month who have lost their job and coverage.

Change will win in the long run. We will get some form of single payer system as the current Insurance Gangsters continue to raise the premiums until even the true believers on the right realize they are getting a free medical proctology exam.

Conservatism always loses in the long run because its only real result is entropy.

The left has been in control since '06. Where was the healthcare bill then?

 

[Sunni Man]

Right-wingnut healthcare....you can't beat it

I agree Rightwing.

Obama was elected to do the right thing for all Americans.

He has the best idea in providing health care for everyone.

It shouldn't be based income or social status.

With Obama as our leader. We are a blessed nation.

 

[loosecannon]

The whole "white people will become a minority in the next 20-30 years" was enough to wax any hope of intellectual honesty.

It is a fact, supported by none other than the US census bureau.

You. Don't. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.

wanna bet? I thought everybody knew this.

The Election of Barack Obama is just the most startling manifestation of a larger trend: the gradual erosion of “whiteness” as the touchstone of what it means to be American. If the end of white America is a cultural and demographic inevitability, what will the new mainstream look like—and how will white Americans fit into it? What will it mean to be white when whiteness is no longer the norm? And will a post-white America be less racially divided—or more so?

Whether you describe it as the dawning of a post-racial age or just the end of white America, we’re approaching a profound demographic tipping point. According to an August 2008 report by the U.S. Census Bureau, those groups currently categorized as racial minorities—blacks and Hispanics, East Asians and South Asians—will account for a majority of the U.S. population by the year 2042. Among Americans under the age of 18, this shift is projected to take place in 2023, which means that every child born in the United States from here on out will belong to the first post-white generation.

The End of White America? - The Atlantic (January/February 2009)

 

[Truthmatters]

Thanks for proving again the lack of intellectual honesty. Maybe in your fantasy world healthcare and healthins can be bought by anyone who simply wishes to buy it. Outside of that crack filled snow globe it requires money.

(I can only guess how much bullshit will get slung now)

The lack of intellectual integrity is yours. Of course it costs money to buy health care services.

I already said that if you had bothered to merely read.

So 45,000 people die each year of natural causes that might be preventable if they had more money. Duh.

But if we decide to save every life that can be saved no matter what the costs is we will soon be paying 1/3 of our incomes to finance our own health care and the huge Baby boom gen that is just now begining to retire enmasse, as well as the underemployed who are still growing in numbers BTW.

And this triple burden will be borne by a shrinking workforce who had little or nothing to do with the gross(criminal) mismanagement that spawned this problem.

You sure did just advocate letting a child die because the parents dont have enough money.

Who the hell are these people you are talking about then?

 

[loosecannon]

How about we take the insurance profit out of the equation.

Health providers remain independent but they recieve their payment through a single payer.

That is like the 2nd or 3rd best option. Medicare for everybody. But Medicare faces a $37 trillion liabilities shortfall by 2042.

There are better and worse options. With single payer as the 3rd the bills in the House and senate are likely about the 12th and 15th. They do nothing to contain the costs of healthcare generally and only drive Medicare costs by a $trillion over 10 years.

That isn't nearly enough.

We pay 50% more for healthcare than anybody else on earth, and we have 10% of the public uninsured. We CAN reduce healthcare costs by 60% if we weren't (our government wasn't) as corrupt as the Mafia. Evidence is that everybody else on Earth can do that except us.

 

[Sunni Man]

Don't be so negative and ungrateful.

Obama has a plan and will take care of us in our time of need.

 

[Truthmatters]

Medicare for all is what we will end up with.

What you are refusing to understand is that when all pay in you really do spread the cost, medicare right now only has the elderly who are very need intensive.

 

[Truthmatters]

all other industrialized nations have some form of sigle payer and have better health and lower costs by far than we do

 

[loosecannon]

You sure did just advocate letting a child die because the parents dont have enough money.

liar

Who the hell are these people you are talking about then?

Mostly elderly, but anybody whose care is prohibitively expensive.

I don't care how sacred life is, I am not gonna spend 1/3 of my income being artificially saved from an inevitable and necessary part of life called death.

I am also not gonna pay 1/3 of my income saving you from an inevitable and necessary part of life called death.

Esp not with overpopulation being the 2nd largest anthropogenic problem on the planet.

People are born to die. Get used to it. And if you want to be kept alive as long as science can mange regardless of the price, then marry somebody rich, rich, rich.

Meanwhile Americans are obese slobs who won't do shit to preserve/maintain their health, so fuck em.

 

[mudwhistle]

Annnnnnt!

wrong again, you claimed they never said anything about, 45,000 dying remember?

The fact is the studied found that nearly 45,000 AMERICANS die for want of healthcare.

You are denying facts yet again.

The study found that they had a higher risk...not that that many died.

Nobody can compile that kind of statistic with a straight face.

Health insurance never saved anyone's life. And that is what this is about. We aren't talking about whether proper health care is available....it almost always is.

Like somebody mentioned here before. The bill they're proposing doesn't begin to pay any benefits till after 2014 so they must not be in any rush to save lives....that is if the claims are genuine.

My first complaint would be what's the fucken hold up????

 

[loosecannon]

all other industrialized nations have some form of sigle payer and have better health and lower costs by far than we do

Like I said single payer is my second choice with a national cooperative being first.

But with a cap on costs at 7.5% of GDP. If you want more healthcare than that, buy it.

 

[loosecannon]

Medicare for all is what we will end up with.

What you are refusing to understand is that when all pay in you really do spread the cost, medicare right now only has the elderly who are very need intensive.

I wish I was as naive as you. I really do.

Social security began as a program that only took about 1% of your paycheck and due to changes in benefits and life expectancy it now takes 13.5% of the average paycheck, and that's with a cap on the high end of salaries.

Medicare is ALREADY forecast to go broke and fall $37 trillion short of meeting it's obligations by 2042.

If we proceed on this path, and esp considering the equally daughting national debt we will be broke and all entitlements terminated before I ever cash a SS check.

Obama is destroying the new deal more surely than any republic ever wished to.

That's reality.

 

[Truthmatters]

Annnnnnt!

wrong again, you claimed they never said anything about, 45,000 dying remember?

The fact is the studied found that nearly 45,000 AMERICANS die for want of healthcare.

You are denying facts yet again.

The study found that they had a higher risk...not that that many died.

Nobody can compile that kind of statistic with a straight face.

Health insurance never saved anyone's life. And that is what this is about. We aren't talking about whether proper health care is available....it almost always is.

Like somebody mentioned here before. The bill they're proposing doesn't begin to pay any benefits till after 2014 so they must not be in any rush to save lives....that is if the claims are genuine.

My first complaint would be what's the fucken hold up????

http://www.physorg.com/news172424058.html


The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

 

[mudwhistle]

Right-wingnut healthcare....you can't beat it

I agree Rightwing.

Obama was elected to do the right thing for all Americans.

He has the best idea in providing health care for everyone.

It shouldn't be based income or social status.

With Obama as our leader. We are a blessed nation.

Yes...praise be to the Messiah.

But.....it seems this bill is coming from Congress...not Obama.