The Real Issue with the "Ground Zero Mosque"

[Hister]

Seems to me that the best solution would be for this Guy to open up his mosque to all religions. Have it for Muslims, Jew's, Christian's where all who worship God can come. I bet he would get his 100 mil for it easily. Just think all who worship the same God could get together and find out how much more they have in common than their differences.

We don't all worship the same God.

But I still respect the right of the Muslims to build a mosque whereever the Hell they see fit.

As long as I don't have to go... I'm fine.

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.

They won't move the mosque, it's a victory for Allah.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance.

What utter sewage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "religious intolerance," so your major premise is a skid mark, and everything that follows is diarrhea.

You don't even have a clue that you're a harbi, do you? You don't know what the fuck a harbi is, do you—even though you are one. You're so stump-stupid about the facts at issue that you have no fucking clue that you live in Dar Al-Harb—Land Of War.

You are living under and are the subject of a fatwa, you ignorant fuck:

"In compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it . . . We—with God's help—call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema [Muslim scholars], leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the Devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." —World Islamic Front, signed by Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and Fazlul Rahman​

That's right, you fatuous twit, WAR has been declared on you and on the United States by Islam.

"All the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." —Muhammad, 630 A.D.

"The Believers are but a single brotherhood." —Quran 49:10

"A Muslim has no nationality except his belief." —Syed Qutb​

Their mosques are their military and political headquarters, halfwit.

"Mehrab [mosque] means the place of war, the place of fighting. Out of the mehrabs, wars should proceed. Just as all the wars of Islam proceeded out of the mehrabs. The prophet had sword to kill people. Our Holy Imams were quite militant. All of them were warriors. They used to wield swords. They used to kill people. We need a Caliph who would chop hands, cut throats, stone people. In the same way that the messenger of Allah used to chop hands, cut throats, and stone people." —Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

"When you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately." —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 4:52:79:Narrated Ibn 'Abbas​

You know, I don't personally really give a royal flying fuck how imbecilic, oblivious, naive, obtuse, and uninformed you want to be—or how much you bray about your ignorance. But let me tell you something, tear-jerker hug-a-Muslim boy: there's a bright glowing line, and when you start spreading the propaganda of known, avowed, declared enemies of the United States and its Constitution, and offering them aid and comfort, you've stepped on it, fuckface. And here's that bright glowing line:

18 U.S.C. 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

You want to defend them? Then you better go fucking join them.

Calling me a traitor? I want you to know that I took a vow to defend the Constitution when I joined the Marine Corps. I may never have seen action, but I could've. The First Amendment grants all US citizens the right to religious freedom. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Semper Fidelis.

I know many pacifistic, charitable Muslims. They aren't in any way a threat to anyone who doesn't force them to defend themselves. Just like most Christians.

So who's the traitor? Me for putting my life at risk to defend the Constitution, or you for betraying its principles?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Seems to me that the best solution would be for this Guy to open up his mosque to all religions. Have it for Muslims, Jew's, Christian's where all who worship God can come. I bet he would get his 100 mil for it easily. Just think all who worship the same God could get together and find out how much more they have in common than their differences.

We don't all worship the same God.

But I still respect the right of the Muslims to build a mosque whereever the Hell they see fit.

As long as I don't have to go... I'm fine.

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.

Again, I'm not a muslim, so I don't pretend to know where the best place for a Mosque is. If we're going to consider Islam a legitimate religion we must also understand their right to prayer where they see fit. Personally a memorial church near the site I think would be a great thing. However Muslims don't worship at church and I'm sure out of the 3,000 families effected by 9/11 a few of them were muslims and might like to build their own memorial, a place where they can pray and remember their loved ones. The insensitivity thing falls on both sides.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.

See bold above.

I thought religion had nothing to do with it, California Girl. You've just shown, whether you intend it or are aware of it or not, that you are intolerant of Islam. No offense. I'm sure you are a good person, but even good people aren't perfect. I sure as hell am not even close to perfect.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

We don't all worship the same God.

But I still respect the right of the Muslims to build a mosque whereever the Hell they see fit.

As long as I don't have to go... I'm fine.

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.

They won't move the mosque, it's a victory for Allah.

No, its a victory for our First Amendments Rights! And that's what makes this country great.

 

[California Girl]

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.

See bold above.

I thought religion had nothing to do with it, California Girl. You've just shown, whether you intend it or are aware of it or not, that you are intolerant of Islam. No offense. I'm sure you are a good person, but even good people aren't perfect. I sure as hell am not even close to perfect.

Bullshit. I don't even pretend to be 'tolerant'.... I am 'accepting'.... I accept all faiths, and none. Don't pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good person - you know fuck all about me. (Although because you're Corps, and my family are Corps I will say 'Oooorah' to you. LOL)

I accept that they have the right to build there.... I would just like them to show some sensitivity and move.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Bullshit. I don't even pretend to be 'tolerant'.... I am 'accepting'.... I accept all faiths, and none. Don't pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good person - you know fuck all about me. (Although because you're Corps, and my family are Corps I will say 'Oooorah' to you. LOL)

I accept that they have the right to build there.... I would just like them to show some sensitivity and move.

I posted on this board for over a year. I read many of your posts and even had some interaction with you outside of posting replies. Seems to me that you're a good person and if I though I can't know for sure, I still assume it. Maybe I'm wrong. That wasn't just a platitude.

Let me pose a question to you. If radical, extremist Christians had attacked the WTC, would you feel the same when a some other Christians wanted a community center a few blocks away?

And, I'm sure there were Muslims killed on 9/11 who worked in the WTC or who were passengers on one of those planes (passengers not hijackers). Shouldn't they be honored as well? Where's your sensitivity for them and their families?

 

[Rezonator]

I want you to know that I took a vow to defend the Constitution when I joined the Marine Corps.

Yeah? Well now you're betraying that vow. You ain't the first. You won't be the last. That's your demon to wrestle with.

The First Amendment grants all US citizens the right to religious freedom.

The same Constitution also says: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

Christ! How fucking thick are you? I just proved conclusively to you, with documented evidence stuck right in your face, that Islam has DECLARED WAR against the United States! They PROVED it by attacking our largest city, and even the PENTAGON! You won't address the facts put right in your face, directly from their own statements—you just whimper and mewl about how sweet and lovable these DECLARED ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES are, and how they need to be mollycoddled and have their fucking "rights" <SPIT!> protected.

And you call yourself a "marine"? You make me want to puke.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

[eah? Well now you're betraying that vow. You ain't the first. You won't be the last. That's your demon to wrestle with.

The same Constitution also says: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

Christ! How fucking thick are you? I just proved conclusively to you, with documented evidence stuck right in your face, that Islam has DECLARED WAR against the United States! They PROVED it by attacking our largest city, and even the PENTAGON! You won't address the facts put right in your face, directly from their own statements—you just whimper and mewl about how sweet and lovable these DECLARED ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES are, and how they need to be mollycoddled and have their fucking "rights" <SPIT!> protected.

And you call yourself a "marine"? You make me want to puke.

Here is a perfect example of hate. Its irrational. This guy hates Islam, assumes all Muslims are out to get us, and posts a picture of a Muslims hating Jews by holding a Hitler banner and yet his post sounds an awful lot like Nazi anti-semite propaganda only with Islam as the target instead of Judaism.

I neither aid nor give comfort to the radical, I repeat RADICAL, EXTREMIST Muslim jihadist factions who have declared war on the United States. I simply defend the Constitution of the United States, from ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. You have not shown conclusively how Islam has declared on the US, only how extremists factions of Islam have declared war on the US. You've only posted some quotes that reflect what you want to believe about Islam. I can go into the Bible and I can go to some radical, extremist Christian websites or watchdog websites and get similar quotes that some Americans themselves have said about their own country.

I do call myself a Marine. Try to keep up with me, and you will puke.

 

[California Girl]

Bullshit. I don't even pretend to be 'tolerant'.... I am 'accepting'.... I accept all faiths, and none. Don't pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good person - you know fuck all about me. (Although because you're Corps, and my family are Corps I will say 'Oooorah' to you. LOL)

I accept that they have the right to build there.... I would just like them to show some sensitivity and move.

I posted on this board for over a year. I read many of your posts and even had some interaction with you outside of posting replies. Seems to me that you're a good person and if I though I can't know for sure, I still assume it. Maybe I'm wrong. That wasn't just a platitude.

Let me pose a question to you. If radical, extremist Christians had attacked the WTC, would you feel the same when a some other Christians wanted a community center a few blocks away?

And, I'm sure there were Muslims killed on 9/11 who worked in the WTC or who were passengers on one of those planes (passengers not hijackers). Shouldn't they be honored as well? Where's your sensitivity for them and their families?

If there was a groundswell of disapproval for the center, yes, I would. As I said, if it was my faith that was linked to the attacks, I would write to the Pope and tell him not to build it there. I recognize that the majority of Muslims are decent people.... I have absolutely no issue with Muslims at all. I have no ax to grind with any group of people - I save my vitriol for individuals.

And, yes.... I'm aware that Muslims died.... In fact citizens from 86 countries died but most Americans refer to the dead as Americans - they were not. I have the same sympathy for ALL the victims - none are more important than the others.

Legally, they have the right to build. Morally, not such solid ground. Not hard.

 

[Rezonator]

post sounds an awful lot like Nazi anti-semite propaganda only with Islam as the target instead of Judaism.

You overlook one little detail, dickbrain: Judaism hadn't declared war on Germany.

I neither aid nor give comfort to the radical, I repeat RADICAL, EXTREMIST Muslim jihadist factions who have declared war on the United States.

Thank you for stipulating that Muslims have declared war on the United States. You can throw all the apologist adjectives you want to at it, but it just proves that you are a spittle-flecked psycho who believes there are two Qurans, two Islams.

"All the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." &#8212;Muhammad, 630 A.D.​

Are you calling Muhammad a liar? Go ahead, wanna-be-Marine-boy: say it. I say you're too chicken-shit to come out and say it. Come on, wanna-be-Marine-boy: prove me wrong. Say it right here and now.

Meanwhile, here's the Islamic Mufti who helped engineer the holocaust.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

post sounds an awful lot like Nazi anti-semite propaganda only with Islam as the target instead of Judaism.

You overlook one little detail, dickbrain: Judaism hadn't declared war on Germany.

I neither aid nor give comfort to the radical, I repeat RADICAL, EXTREMIST Muslim jihadist factions who have declared war on the United States.

Thank you for stipulating that Muslims have declared war on the United States. You can throw all the apologist adjectives you want to at it, but it just proves that you are a spittle-flecked psycho who believes there are two Qurans, two Islams.

"All the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." —Muhammad, 630 A.D.​

Are you calling Muhammad a liar? Go ahead, wanna-be-Marine-boy: say it. I say you're too chicken-shit to come out and say it. Come on, wanna-be-Marine-boy: prove me wrong. Say it right here and now.

Meanwhile, here's the Islamic Mufti who helped engineer the holocaust.

By your reasoning, what little there is beyond the rabid anger that seems to rule over your emotions, using quotes from the Quran then Christians are blood-thirsty murderers and war-mongerers who have declared war on non-Christians (which includes me):

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Numbers 31:17-18

'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, .... Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

"The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name."
Exodus 15:3

"Happy shall be he who takes your [Edomites] little ones and dashes them against the rocks"
Psalms 137:9

"Cursed is he who does the work of the Lord with slackness; and cursed is he who keeps back his sword from bloodshed."
Jeremiah 48:10

"And Joshua mowed down Am a-lek and his people with the edge of a sword."
Exodus 17:3

"Then he said to them, 'This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died." Exodus 32:27-28

"And moses said to the people, 'Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Mid-i-an, to execute the Lord's venegence on Midian."
Numbers 31:3

And these are just some Bible quotes justifying or commanding Christians to war against "the other" (including women and children).

Does that mean I assume all Christians are murderers or have declared war against all non-Christians? Hell No! Instead I think those fringe elements, the radicals, the extremists are the Christians who take the Bible literally and are a threat - just as I do all other religions, including Islam.

By the way, I don't wanna-be a Marine - I already am one and always will be. And I support the Constitution and the First Amendment (you know the one that stipulates Freedom of Religion for all US citizens). I don't support Islamic jihadists or the far-right Christian organizations that also want to reshape civilization in what they believe is a justified way i.e. violence.

So do yourself a favor and quit this obsession with Islam and quit painting all Muslims as violent terrorists. Its only increasing the anger and hatred which make you more of a miserable, cranky bigot.

p.s. I think Mohammed the prophet was a liar. Or, at least, the people who interpreted what he said and wrote it into the Quran. But I also think the same thing about Jesus, Abraham, Moses, and all religious prophets (except Buddha because he never spouted about supernatural stuff - though Buddhists can be just as bad as monotheists).

Have a nice day!

 

[Hister]

colorado, is it true that all marines are gay?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

colorado, is it true that all marines are gay?

Nope, it's not true.

Hope that cleared that up for ya.

 

[Hister]

colorado, is it true that all marines are gay?

Nope, it's not true.

Hope that cleared that up for ya.

So you're all in the closet?

 

[Corvo]

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Numbers 31:17-18

'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, .... Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

"The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name."
Exodus 15:3

"Happy shall be he who takes your [Edomites] little ones and dashes them against the rocks"
Psalms 137:9

"Cursed is he who does the work of the Lord with slackness; and cursed is he who keeps back his sword from bloodshed."
Jeremiah 48:10

"And Joshua mowed down Am a-lek and his people with the edge of a sword."
Exodus 17:3

"Then he said to them, 'This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died." Exodus 32:27-28

"And moses said to the people, 'Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Mid-i-an, to execute the Lord's venegence on Midian."
Numbers 31:3

You realize every single one of these passages are from the Old Testament meaning they were written before Christianity came around right?

I agree completely with California Girl, there is nothing illegal about the mosque, its just not moral. If they are preaching tolerance with this center, why don't they tolerate the feelings of all the people outside picketing it? I realize many that are resisting this are doing it only because its a mosque, but not everyone is.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You realize every single one of these passages are from the Old Testament meaning they were written before Christianity came around right?

Yes, I just didn't think it necessary to keep going. And it doesn't matter if its the OT because most modern Christians still follow the Ten Commandments and they are from the OT as well. The OT is still read, taught, and learned in church. Its still part of the Christian religion. Doesn't mean all Christians go out and kill unbelievers.

I agree completely with California Girl, there is nothing illegal about the mosque, its just not moral. If they are preaching tolerance with this center, why don't they tolerate the feelings of all the people outside picketing it? I realize many that are resisting this are doing it only because its a mosque, but not everyone is.

I see Equal Rights AS a moral issue. They have the Constitutional right to build there. They have the MORAL right to build there. If people blame all Islam for the attacks on 9/11 then they have a problem with the mosque being built there. If they blame religious extremists for the attacks on 9/11, then there should be no problem.

 

[Avatar4321]

The real issue is it's September before a big November election and people want to have the public distracted from real issues for some unknown reason.

 

[jenny.smith]

There is no doubt that a mosque organized and led by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is based on sharia and act as a local chapter of the offensive against terrorists west.Most pan-Islamic banks and financial institutions that provide funds Shariah Compliant having their investment analyzed by the most fundamentalist and reactionary clergy to ensure they advance Sharia.

 

[Hister]

You realize every single one of these passages are from the Old Testament meaning they were written before Christianity came around right?

Yes, I just didn't think it necessary to keep going. And it doesn't matter if its the OT because most modern Christians still follow the Ten Commandments and they are from the OT as well. The OT is still read, taught, and learned in church. Its still part of the Christian religion. Doesn't mean all Christians go out and kill unbelievers.

I agree completely with California Girl, there is nothing illegal about the mosque, its just not moral. If they are preaching tolerance with this center, why don't they tolerate the feelings of all the people outside picketing it? I realize many that are resisting this are doing it only because its a mosque, but not everyone is.

I see Equal Rights AS a moral issue. They have the Constitutional right to build there. They have the MORAL right to build there. If people blame all Islam for the attacks on 9/11 then they have a problem with the mosque being built there. If they blame religious extremists for the attacks on 9/11, then there should be no problem.

Cman, you're a fool, all muslims agree with the premise of 9/11: retaliation for the US' actions in Palestine as the main backer of Israel, militarily and financially.
PS a muslim religious extremist is a muslim with a beard.