The Real Issue with the "Ground Zero Mosque"

[Coloradomtnman]

I've seen lots on the news and on the www about this "nontroversy". I've heard that the reason people don't want the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" built a few blocks and down the street from Ground Zero is because we don't want the jihadists celebrating a "victory", or that we don't want to provoke jihadists, because of funding ties to an organization that does Muslim outreach (like the guy who co-owns Fox News with Rupert Murdoch), or because the Imam thinks that US foreign policy has made enemies of the US, or because we need to be sensitive to the survivors and the families of the victims of 9/11. How is an Islamic community center offensive to the 9/11 victims' families and survivors? There's only thing that comes to mind: Islam.

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance. I've seen the signs that associate Islam and religious intolerance - which is ironic. I've seen interviews with opponents of the Islamic community center, and I've seen their associates in Tennessee. These people, God bless them, believe that Islam is evil, wrong, hateful, something that we, infidels, should fear.

Really, its just about intolerance. And intolerance is really about fear.

If you believe in the COTUS, than you should have no issue with people worshipping, or how they worship, or *where* they worship.

I think we oughta let snake dancers do whatever the hell they want!

I think we oughta let Mormons have more than one wife.

And I think that if one believes in our First Amendment rights, then that person can't have an issue with this Islamic community center.

Because, in the US of A, we shouldn't allow ourselves to limit our freedoms out of a yearning for security - instead we should face our fears and overcome them. And from Islam there is nothing to fear - except religious extremists, just as we understand that there are extremists of EVERY religion, including Christianity, and we understand that any kind of extremism that is harmful to others.

There is conscious intolerance, those people who openly and and are conscisouly aware that they believe Islam is wrong. And there is, seemingly, a subconscious intolerance. Someone who is in denial about their intolerance. This person upholds that the USA is a nation founded on religious tolerance and so there must be another reason why they believe the Islamic commmunity center is wrong (but that reason isn't fear of Islam). Something like needing to be sensitive to the survivors and families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks.

And as honorable, thoughtful, and sensitive as that may be - it is also dishonorable. Because those people died, if unwittingly, as sacrifice for Freedom. And one freedom they died for is freedom of religion. Just like our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fight terrorists who are INTOLERANT of us. And die fighting them.

So honor the victims of 9/11 and our soldiers who fight Al Qaida and who fought Suddam by honoring religious tolerance the our First Amendments Rights.

 

[SW2SILVER]

It's about intolerance, alright. Muslim intolerance. Hit the nail on the head. I resent all these e smug self righteous liberals pretending to care about Islam. Islam represents everything liberals despise. Religious suppositious theists murdering innocent people and denying rights to human beings. They turn women into cattle and cut off their noses, put them in burlap bags, and stone Gays or freethinkers to death. Journalism? Remember Daniel Pearl. They even condemned to death a Danish Cartoonist. Remember Salman Rushdie? Islam cannot stand self introspection or criticism within it’s own ranks, PLEASE. The very name “Islam” means “submission”. I am no Christian, I fear religion in general, but Islam is the METHAMPHEDAMINE of religions. I am tolerant, but not stupid. They are a threat to liberalism and free thought everywhere. That is the "REAL ISSUE".

 

[bodecea]

It's about intolerance, alright. Muslim intolerance. Hit the nail on the head. I resent all these e smug self righteous liberals pretending to care about Islam. Islam represents everything liberals despise. Religious suppositious theists murdering innocent people and denying rights to human beings. They turn women into cattle and cut off their noses, put them in burlap bags, and stone Gays or freethinkers to death. Journalism? Remember Daniel Pearl. They even condemned to death a Danish Cartoonist. Remember Salman Rushdie? Islam cannot stand self introspection or criticism within it’s own ranks, PLEASE. The very name “Islam” means “submission”. I am no Christian, I fear religion in general, but Islam is the METHAMPHEDAMINE of religions. I am tolerant, but not stupid. They are a threat to liberalism and free thought everywhere. That is the "REAL ISSUE".

So...the solution is to beat them to the punch and be even MORE intolerant.

Gotcha.

 

[SW2SILVER]

Bodecea: I love you. Don't mix me up with anyone else. Beat them to the punch? Please. Naiveté is beautiful. We don't "beat" them. They don‘t care what “we” think sweet pea. Liberal or Conservative. Get that through your collective heads. Islam will stone you to death. Not your buds here on the USMB. They crash planes into Manhattan, we just question. They kill people that question…
Which is worse?

 

[mattpiggins]

Islam itself does not crash planes into manhattan, the people that do that are jihadists. islam is, historically, one of, if not the most, peaceful religion ever practiced. within the reign of the umayyad empire (an early muslim empire, that covered much of the middle east and northern africa) people could worship however they pleased. however within christian countries, citizens were forced to worship the christian deity. This tolerance of beliefs contrary to their own, actually brought many people to convert to islam, this is why much of the region the umayyad empire encompassed is still predominantly muslim. so sw2silver, you are wrong. islam will not stone you to death, islam is a tolerant, open-minded, and for the most part unbigoted religion. So that being said, i see no reason not to let them build. We need to stand by our american values, and the values on which this country was founded, freedom and tolerance.

 

[Hister]

It's not a "nontroversy", it's a mosquerade!

I say next time they go to kiss a carpet, staple their lips to it, roll it up and FedEx it to Libya.

If the Muslims themselves didn't consider the mosque a victory, I'd have no problem with it. But quite frankly, if it were up to me, I'd stop letting them into our countries.

 

[froggy]

I've seen lots on the news and on the www about this "nontroversy". I've heard that the reason people don't want the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" built a few blocks and down the street from Ground Zero is because we don't want the jihadists celebrating a "victory", or that we don't want to provoke jihadists, because of funding ties to an organization that does Muslim outreach (like the guy who co-owns Fox News with Rupert Murdoch), or because the Imam thinks that US foreign policy has made enemies of the US, or because we need to be sensitive to the survivors and the families of the victims of 9/11. How is an Islamic community center offensive to the 9/11 victims' families and survivors? There's only thing that comes to mind: Islam.

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance. I've seen the signs that associate Islam and religious intolerance - which is ironic. I've seen interviews with opponents of the Islamic community center, and I've seen their associates in Tennessee. These people, God bless them, believe that Islam is evil, wrong, hateful, something that we, infidels, should fear.

Really, its just about intolerance. And intolerance is really about fear.

If you believe in the COTUS, than you should have no issue with people worshipping, or how they worship, or *where* they worship.

I think we oughta let snake dancers do whatever the hell they want!

I think we oughta let Mormons have more than one wife.

And I think that if one believes in our First Amendment rights, then that person can't have an issue with this Islamic community center.

Because, in the US of A, we shouldn't allow ourselves to limit our freedoms out of a yearning for security - instead we should face our fears and overcome them. And from Islam there is nothing to fear - except religious extremists, just as we understand that there are extremists of EVERY religion, including Christianity, and we understand that any kind of extremism that is harmful to others.

There is conscious intolerance, those people who openly and and are conscisouly aware that they believe Islam is wrong. And there is, seemingly, a subconscious intolerance. Someone who is in denial about their intolerance. This person upholds that the USA is a nation founded on religious tolerance and so there must be another reason why they believe the Islamic commmunity center is wrong (but that reason isn't fear of Islam). Something like needing to be sensitive to the survivors and families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks.

And as honorable, thoughtful, and sensitive as that may be - it is also dishonorable. Because those people died, if unwittingly, as sacrifice for Freedom. And one freedom they died for is freedom of religion. Just like our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fight terrorists who are INTOLERANT of us. And die fighting them.

So honor the victims of 9/11 and our soldiers who fight Al Qaida and who fought Suddam by honoring religious tolerance the our First Amendments Rights.

Why do foreigners want to live in America and act as if they're still in their old country, if they want to be American they should act American, We're not Afghan-america, we're America.

 

[strollingbones]

snake dancers? are you referring to serpent handlers? or what?

 

[konradv]

It's about intolerance, alright. Muslim intolerance. Hit the nail on the head. I resent all these e smug self righteous liberals pretending to care about Islam. Islam represents everything liberals despise. Religious suppositious theists murdering innocent people and denying rights to human beings. They turn women into cattle and cut off their noses, put them in burlap bags, and stone Gays or freethinkers to death. Journalism? Remember Daniel Pearl. They even condemned to death a Danish Cartoonist. Remember Salman Rushdie? Islam cannot stand self introspection or criticism within it’s own ranks, PLEASE. The very name “Islam” means “submission”. I am no Christian, I fear religion in general, but Islam is the METHAMPHEDAMINE of religions. I am tolerant, but not stupid. They are a threat to liberalism and free thought everywhere. That is the "REAL ISSUE".

This type of thinking does no more than "prove" OBL's contention that the West is out to destroy Islam. Thanks for being such a "useful idiot".

 

[Colin]

snake dancers? are you referring to serpent handlers? or what?

 

[froggy]

snake dancers? are you referring to serpent handlers? or what?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--4pQX-jnX0]YouTube - Snake Dance - Flexible girl[/ame]

 

[mattpiggins]

I've seen lots on the news and on the www about this "nontroversy". I've heard that the reason people don't want the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" built a few blocks and down the street from Ground Zero is because we don't want the jihadists celebrating a "victory", or that we don't want to provoke jihadists, because of funding ties to an organization that does Muslim outreach (like the guy who co-owns Fox News with Rupert Murdoch), or because the Imam thinks that US foreign policy has made enemies of the US, or because we need to be sensitive to the survivors and the families of the victims of 9/11. How is an Islamic community center offensive to the 9/11 victims' families and survivors? There's only thing that comes to mind: Islam.

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance. I've seen the signs that associate Islam and religious intolerance - which is ironic. I've seen interviews with opponents of the Islamic community center, and I've seen their associates in Tennessee. These people, God bless them, believe that Islam is evil, wrong, hateful, something that we, infidels, should fear.

Really, its just about intolerance. And intolerance is really about fear.

If you believe in the COTUS, than you should have no issue with people worshipping, or how they worship, or *where* they worship.

I think we oughta let snake dancers do whatever the hell they want!

I think we oughta let Mormons have more than one wife.

And I think that if one believes in our First Amendment rights, then that person can't have an issue with this Islamic community center.

Because, in the US of A, we shouldn't allow ourselves to limit our freedoms out of a yearning for security - instead we should face our fears and overcome them. And from Islam there is nothing to fear - except religious extremists, just as we understand that there are extremists of EVERY religion, including Christianity, and we understand that any kind of extremism that is harmful to others.

There is conscious intolerance, those people who openly and and are conscisouly aware that they believe Islam is wrong. And there is, seemingly, a subconscious intolerance. Someone who is in denial about their intolerance. This person upholds that the USA is a nation founded on religious tolerance and so there must be another reason why they believe the Islamic commmunity center is wrong (but that reason isn't fear of Islam). Something like needing to be sensitive to the survivors and families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks.

And as honorable, thoughtful, and sensitive as that may be - it is also dishonorable. Because those people died, if unwittingly, as sacrifice for Freedom. And one freedom they died for is freedom of religion. Just like our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fight terrorists who are INTOLERANT of us. And die fighting them.

So honor the victims of 9/11 and our soldiers who fight Al Qaida and who fought Suddam by honoring religious tolerance the our First Amendments Rights.

Why do foreigners want to live in America and act as if they're still in their old country, if they want to be American they should act American, We're not Afghan-america, we're America.

Act American? Acting American is acting how you want to act without government interfearing. thats the beauty of america, we are a melting pot of cultures and always have been. Even people who would say act american are all different, the culture in california is much different that of say georgia. And the culture of michigan is much different than that of texas. People want to come here to be free and do what they please, and that is what our country was intended to be.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

snake dancers? are you referring to serpent handlers? or what?

Yes. The only state they are allowed to worship as they please is West Virginia. All 49 other states have declared it illegal to worship while handling venomous snakes. They way I see it is, based on their First Amendment rights, these people should be allowed to worship as they believe. If they are bitten and die...oh, well. That's the risk they take in worshipping as they do. We don't make rock climbing illegal because its dangerous. And we sure as hell won't make driving illegal even though it is one of the most dangerous things a person can do. Statistically one is far more likely to die driving to where they rock climb than actually rock climbing. Why not let snake handlers do what they want and believe is right?

 

[johnrocks]

Fear is an emotion that sells and boy are people buying. I look at it as a private property right, let em build, to me; that will show the world that we aren't going to surrender our Constitution due to the actions of less than 1% of the world's population that is terrorists.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

It's about intolerance, alright. Muslim intolerance. Hit the nail on the head. I resent all these e smug self righteous liberals pretending to care about Islam. Islam represents everything liberals despise. Religious suppositious theists murdering innocent people and denying rights to human beings. They turn women into cattle and cut off their noses, put them in burlap bags, and stone Gays or freethinkers to death. Journalism? Remember Daniel Pearl. They even condemned to death a Danish Cartoonist. Remember Salman Rushdie? Islam cannot stand self introspection or criticism within it’s own ranks, PLEASE. The very name “Islam” means “submission”. I am no Christian, I fear religion in general, but Islam is the METHAMPHEDAMINE of religions. I am tolerant, but not stupid. They are a threat to liberalism and free thought everywhere. That is the "REAL ISSUE".

I could care less about Islam. What I do care about are Property Rights, Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Religion.

If you don't like the idea of a "_______" at Ground Zero, then be prepared to buy up all that New York real estate so you can be the final arbiter of what goes there. Until you do that, or the group behind this break the law, there's nothing that can or should be done to stop them.

 

[peach174]

Seems to me that the best solution would be for this Guy to open up his mosque to all religions. Have it for Muslims, Jew's, Christian's where all who worship God can come. I bet he would get his 100 mil for it easily. Just think all who worship the same God could get together and find out how much more they have in common than their differences.

 

[Rezonator]

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance.

What utter sewage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "religious intolerance," so your major premise is a skid mark, and everything that follows is diarrhea.

You don't even have a clue that you're a harbi, do you? You don't know what the fuck a harbi is, do you—even though you are one. You're so stump-stupid about the facts at issue that you have no fucking clue that you live in Dar Al-Harb—Land Of War.

You are living under and are the subject of a fatwa, you ignorant fuck:

"In compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it . . . We—with God's help—call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema [Muslim scholars], leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the Devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." —World Islamic Front, signed by Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and Fazlul Rahman​

That's right, you fatuous twit, WAR has been declared on you and on the United States by Islam.

"All the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." —Muhammad, 630 A.D.

"The Believers are but a single brotherhood." —Quran 49:10

"A Muslim has no nationality except his belief." —Syed Qutb​

Their mosques are their military and political headquarters, halfwit.

"Mehrab [mosque] means the place of war, the place of fighting. Out of the mehrabs, wars should proceed. Just as all the wars of Islam proceeded out of the mehrabs. The prophet had sword to kill people. Our Holy Imams were quite militant. All of them were warriors. They used to wield swords. They used to kill people. We need a Caliph who would chop hands, cut throats, stone people. In the same way that the messenger of Allah used to chop hands, cut throats, and stone people." —Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

"When you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately." —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 4:52:79:Narrated Ibn 'Abbas​

You know, I don't personally really give a royal flying fuck how imbecilic, oblivious, naive, obtuse, and uninformed you want to be—or how much you bray about your ignorance. But let me tell you something, tear-jerker hug-a-Muslim boy: there's a bright glowing line, and when you start spreading the propaganda of known, avowed, declared enemies of the United States and its Constitution, and offering them aid and comfort, you've stepped on it, fuckface. And here's that bright glowing line:

18 U.S.C. 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

You want to defend them? Then you better go fucking join them.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Seems to me that the best solution would be for this Guy to open up his mosque to all religions. Have it for Muslims, Jew's, Christian's where all who worship God can come. I bet he would get his 100 mil for it easily. Just think all who worship the same God could get together and find out how much more they have in common than their differences.

We don't all worship the same God.

But I still respect the right of the Muslims to build a mosque whereever the Hell they see fit.

As long as I don't have to go... I'm fine.

 

[uptownlivin90]

This issue is about one thing. Religious intolerance.

What utter sewage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "religious intolerance," so your major premise is a skid mark, and everything that follows is diarrhea.

You don't even have a clue that you're a harbi, do you? You don't know what the fuck a harbi is, do you—even though you are one. You're so stump-stupid about the facts at issue that you have no fucking clue that you live in Dar Al-Harb—Land Of War.

You are living under and are the subject of a fatwa, you ignorant fuck:

"In compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it . . . We—with God's help—call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema [Muslim scholars], leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the Devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." —World Islamic Front, signed by Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and Fazlul Rahman​

That's right, you fatuous twit, WAR has been declared on you and on the United States by Islam.

"All the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." —Muhammad, 630 A.D.

"The Believers are but a single brotherhood." —Quran 49:10

"A Muslim has no nationality except his belief." —Syed Qutb​

Their mosques are their military and political headquarters, halfwit.

"Mehrab [mosque] means the place of war, the place of fighting. Out of the mehrabs, wars should proceed. Just as all the wars of Islam proceeded out of the mehrabs. The prophet had sword to kill people. Our Holy Imams were quite militant. All of them were warriors. They used to wield swords. They used to kill people. We need a Caliph who would chop hands, cut throats, stone people. In the same way that the messenger of Allah used to chop hands, cut throats, and stone people." —Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

"When you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately." —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 4:52:79:Narrated Ibn 'Abbas​

You know, I don't personally really give a royal flying fuck how imbecilic, oblivious, naive, obtuse, and uninformed you want to be—or how much you bray about your ignorance. But let me tell you something, tear-jerker hug-a-Muslim boy: there's a bright glowing line, and when you start spreading the propaganda of known, avowed, declared enemies of the United States and its Constitution, and offering them aid and comfort, you've stepped on it, fuckface. And here's that bright glowing line:

18 U.S.C. 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

You want to defend them? Then you better go fucking join them.

Pray for them.

 

[California Girl]

Seems to me that the best solution would be for this Guy to open up his mosque to all religions. Have it for Muslims, Jew's, Christian's where all who worship God can come. I bet he would get his 100 mil for it easily. Just think all who worship the same God could get together and find out how much more they have in common than their differences.

We don't all worship the same God.

But I still respect the right of the Muslims to build a mosque whereever the Hell they see fit.

As long as I don't have to go... I'm fine.

So do I. I also happen to think they should built it elsewhere... out of respect for their fellow Americans... because, if it was my religion... That is what I would be asking them to do. To show compassion and understanding and move the damned building.