The raw facts on health care, US vs Canda

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Vast LWC, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. Vast LWC
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    Vast LWC <-Mohammed

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    It has been pointed out that the United State has better survival rates than Canada in cancer victims. This is true, by about 3-4%, it would seem.

    Much ado has been made in the Right-Wing media and on these boards about this fact, and it has been held up as an example of their opinion that US Health Care is better than Canadian health care.

    Well, Cancer is just one disease. It is a leading cause of death, but not THE leading cause of death. So let's look at comparisons in other diseases, shall we?

    Circulatory disease deaths per 100,000:
    Canada: 219
    United States: 265

    Original Source: OECD Health Data 2003 and Health Data 2002. Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, Australia's Health 2002

    Digestive disease deaths per 100,000:Canada: 17.4
    United States: 20.5

    Original Source: World Health Organization

    Infant mortality rate per 1,000 live birthsCanada: 5.08
    United States: 6.3

    Original Source: CIA World Factbooks

    Intestinal diseases death rate
    Canada: 0.3%
    United States: 7.3%

    Original Source: World Health Organization

    Respiratory disease child death rate per 100,000Canada: 0.62
    United States: 40.43

    Original Source: World Health Organization

    Heart disease deaths per 100,000:Canada: 94.9
    United States: 106.5

    Original Source: World Health Organization

    HIV deaths per million people:Canada: 47.423
    United States: 48.141

    Original Source: CIA World Factbooks

    And here's an interesting fact:

    Proability of not reaching age 60:Canada: 9.5%
    United States: 12.8%

    Original Source: CIA World Factbooks
     
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  2. Vast LWC
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    Vast LWC <-Mohammed

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    The average life span in Canada is 2-3 years longer than the average life span in the United States.

    Source: World Health Organization
     
  3. Vast LWC
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    Vast LWC <-Mohammed

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    Looks like Canada, with their supposedly "inferior" socialized medicine, seems to have an advantage over us in all-around care.

    Interesting.
     
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  4. Karateka
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    Karateka Rookie

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    So, what are you waiting for? Move!
     
  5. Vast LWC
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    Vast LWC <-Mohammed

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    Another common argument against public health care seems to be that the government is "inefficient" and less cost effecitive.

    Well let's look at the actual figures:

    Per Capita, national health expenditures in the United States are as follows, as of 2007:

    Private: $3,991.00
    Public: $3,429.00

    As can be seen here

    Source: Dpt of Health and Human Services

    Which seems to indicate that government run health care is about 14-15% more cost effective than private health care.

    Again, interesting.

    Thoughts?
     
  6. Vast LWC
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    Vast LWC <-Mohammed

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    Or, you could move.

    Personally, I spent years in the military protecting this country. I think I've earned the right to have my say without someone telling me to "move".

    So, unless you have something constructive to add to the conversation, why don't you just not say anything, k?
     
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  7. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    thank you for being sane on this subject. :clap2:
     
  8. eagleseven
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    eagleseven Quod Erat Demonstrandum

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    Logical fallacy.

    Private customers subsidize the public customers. How? Profit margins are so small with public customers that, to stay in business, doctors and hospitals are forced to increase prices for private customers. Eliminate the government price controls on healthcare for Medicare/Medicaid recipients, and the "efficiency" of the public sector will vanish.

    This "efficiency" is not applicable to a 100% public system, because there are no private customers to subsidize the public system. Rather, we will all pay higher taxes.

    In short, you ignored the critical effects of government price controls. Any economist, left or right, will tell you price controls create massive inefficiencies.
     
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  9. eagleseven
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    eagleseven Quod Erat Demonstrandum

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    Additionally, you are falsely associating the minor differences in mortality and disease rates with other countries to healthcare.

    Why is this a problem? You are ignoring demographics.

    Canada and Australia simply do not have the same demographics of the United States. Neither Canada nor Australia has a massive African-descent underclass populating the inner cities, nor do they have over 20 million largely uneducated immigrants from Mexico.

    If we took all of the poor, non-English-speaking Mexican immigrants living in the Southwest and moved them to Canada, your numbers would dramatically shift in favor of the US. The fact that your numbers are so close in a country as culturally diverse as the United States is remarkable.

    In short, you are wrongly comparing Apples to Apples+Oranges+Pears+Papaya.
     
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  10. Karateka
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    My dad served in the military, too, and he had enough sense, before he passed away (three years ago - he served in WWII) to know that the CLinton Healthcare plan was a bad idea, too. I know whereof I speak. Also, since you served in the military, you should be sitting fairly pretty, considering the VA benefits you're collecting, no?

    Kindly tell me how you believe the U.S., which is constantly and consistently underfunded in all its pet projects - Medicare, Medicaid, financial assistance to wounded veterans and their families, not to mention, the not-so-slowly sinking ship of Social Security, the underfunded parks systems ... I could go on and on ... is going to amply fund, and continue to fund healthcare sufficiently - at least without taxing everyone into oblivion? Particularly when more and more businesses are closing, and more and more Americans are losing their jobs, which means, of course, that the Federal tax base is eroding at record speed?

    Also, I notice you failed to mention the percentage of income taxes the average Canadian pays vs. the average American, and what percentage of those taxes are put towards healthcare; nor did you express the choices Canadians have when it comes to their physicians or hospitals, or the wait times to see specialists in cases dealing with potentially fatal diseases and in transplant situations. I'd be curious to hear about those. Care to share?
     

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