The question of Choice.

[JW Frogen]

My GFs friend wanted to dump her boyfriend but wanted a baby first because she thought the guy was sooo handsome (he was a troll, lol), so she got preggo and then dumped him. That's a little evil. The guy was still happy to have the kid, but still.

Go Jerry Springer young man, (or woman, midget lesbian, whatever!!!!) go Jerry Springer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Diuretic]

If the woman's life or health is in danger then the man who impregnated her should have no say in whether or not she decides to have the termination procedure.

If the woman's life or health isn't in danger then, provided the pregnancy hasn't gone beyond a statutory limit, she should be able to choose whether or not she goes through childbirth. The man who impregnated her isn't going to face any physical risk – and childbirth has risks – so he shouldn't have a say in whether or not she should face childbirth. The woman may choose to go ahead because she is in a stable and loving relationship with the man who impregnated her, but it's her choice, not his.

The man who impregnates a woman needs to be able to assure her that he will be around and be responsible for the child when it is born. If he won't or can't do that then he has no right to expect the woman to give birth. If he does a runner afterwards then the bludger should be forced to pay for the child's upbringing.

 

[editec]

When a woman is pregnant she has one of two choices. She can have the baby (and either keep him or give him up for adoption) or she can abort. There's no middle road, it's one or the other.

I'm pro-life and look at it this way. When a woman chooses to abort she places her 'right to choose' over the right of life of an unborn human. (Yes, this is where the big debate of 'human' comes in. Please. Humans reproduce humans so when a woman is pregnant what is growing inside her is human. It's also alive (because if it wasn't it wouldn't need to be aborted). So she is pregnant with human life.) Some women believe their right to choose takes precedence over everything; I believe that the unborn have a right to life and life takes precedence over choice.

Some very great valid points. Unfortunatly, it doesn't address, what I posted. Does the right of the woman to abort or delivery superceded the right of the father to suffer the consequences of that choice?

If a woman choses to abort against the will of the father, the father of that choice loses the possibility of having a child. If the woman choses to deliver against the choice of the father, the father loses the choice of not having a child, and facing finacial burdens.

I ask again, if you fight for choice, do you fight for it because it suits your needs? Or do fight for it based on what Choice really means? Any woman who choses to abort or deliver, would be hypocrital to say they made the right one... unless they are willing release then men that didn't chose from their obligations.

Doin't you think?

I think that nature isn't fair hence we have no choice but to be unfair, too.

Yes, the men are screwed either way, I quite agree.

But what's the alternative?

That the women are subject to the whims of the man?

and since it is their burden to carry that fetus to birth or abort it, I don't see a whole lotta choice BUT to give them that choice.

I can see the argument that a man who is not down with the child coming to term should not have to bear the burden of supporting that child, but then the child gets screwed.

Sadly there is no "fair" way to deal with this problem.

 

[caela]

When a woman is pregnant she has one of two choices. She can have the baby (and either keep him or give him up for adoption) or she can abort. There's no middle road, it's one or the other.

I'm pro-life and look at it this way. When a woman chooses to abort she places her 'right to choose' over the right of life of an unborn human. (Yes, this is where the big debate of 'human' comes in. Please. Humans reproduce humans so when a woman is pregnant what is growing inside her is human. It's also alive (because if it wasn't it wouldn't need to be aborted). So she is pregnant with human life.) Some women believe their right to choose takes precedence over everything; I believe that the unborn have a right to life and life takes precedence over choice.

Some very great valid points. Unfortunatly, it doesn't address, what I posted. Does the right of the woman to abort or delivery superceded the right of the father to suffer the consequences of that choice?

If a woman choses to abort against the will of the father, the father of that choice loses the possibility of having a child. If the woman choses to deliver against the choice of the father, the father loses the choice of not having a child, and facing finacial burdens.

I ask again, if you fight for choice, do you fight for it because it suits your needs? Or do fight for it based on what Choice really means? Any woman who choses to abort or deliver, would be hypocrital to say they made the right one... unless they are willing release then men that didn't chose from their obligations.

Doin't you think?

I think that nature isn't fair hence we have no choice but to be unfair, too.

Yes, the men are screwed either way, I quite agree.

But what's the alternative?

That the women are subject to the whims of the man?

and since it is their burden to carry that fetus to birth or abort it, I don't see a whole lotta choice BUT to give them that choice.

I can see the argument that a man who is not down with the child coming to term should not have to bear the burden of supporting that child, but then the child gets screwed.

Sadly there is no "fair" way to deal with this problem.

Actually there is a "fair" way. Women can choose to abdicate their parental responsibilities and men should be able to as well. The child isn't always screwed and is sometimes better off not to have the male half of their genetic code involved in their life. I personally don't think that any amount of money is worth the emotional fallout a child gets put through when they have to deal with a resentful parent and questions like, "What's wrong with me that my Daddy doesn't love me?"

As I said earlier, the man who got me pregnant had no interest in being a father and was concerned that I'd go demonizing him to our friends and/or go behind his back and talk to his family. I didn't do any of those things. Do our friends know who got me pregnant? Yep, it wasn't particularly hard to figure out since I don't sleep around, but I never actually told them who it was. Nor did I go blabbing to his family and it's quite likely that his parents don't have a clue they have a grandchild.

My child won't suffer any loss for any of these things. She's well loved and supported and will continue to be so through the rest of her life. My family is glad I have a decent enough job that I can support the two of us but if I couldn't we'd be taken care of.

To automatically assume a child will suffer just because their sperm donor isn't being forced to pay out the nose is disingenuous at best. Will it happen in some cases? Of course, it's not a perfect world by any means but it doesn't necessarily happen all, or even most, of the time.

ETA: I would make men opt out of their rights BEFORE a child is born however. Once they sign that birth certificate they've made themselves legally responsible for the child.

 

[Tinktink]

I will most likely have some backlash from women on this, but it isn't my intention to do so, as much as it isn't my intention to challenge which choice is more important.

I want to start off by saying I am all about choice. People will call me pro abortion, which I am not, and that is ok if they do, because they don't see beyond their own interpetation of choice. I am pro choice. But in saying that I have to be pro choice with no limitations.

That being said, I have to ask this. Is choice a right of all human beings, or just some based on their gender or reproductive abilities?

A woman has a right to chose what she wants with her body. In that right to chose, does she have the right to force someone to go along with that choice?

We all know that man cannot demand a woman not abort, in hopes of having a child. That is a given, these days. So men have to face losing what could have been their child because of a woman's right to chose. I understand that. Because in reality the man isn't forced to face the physical aspects of bearing a child.

Here is where the right to chose, becomes a right to women to chose only. And quite dishonest on it's face.

A woman can chose to abort. With that I totally agree. A man can not, which can be justified by the man doesn't face the physical aspects of preganancy.

But if woman chose to not abort in the face of a man not wanting a child, choice has been taken away from one of the two parties involved with no justification. And all of a sudden choice has been ripped away from someone, because of someones right to choice.

If woman wants to chose, then I say they should do so, and take on the responsibility of that choice. Not force those that had no choice, by insistenting they pay for that woman's choice.

Bottom line is this, if women want choice, I am all for giving them that choice, but damn them for stealing that choice from another. Chose to do with what you want with your bodies, but if that isn't shared with another, then stick by your choice and don't demand they pay for it.

In laymans terms, if you want to have the baby and your sperm donor doesn't, give him the right to spend the rest of his life, not paying for your choice.

Choice should be available to all, not just those that have the ability to corner the market on it.

I don't know if I posted this in the right forum. If I didn't please correct me.

How many kids are you paying child support for?

I have raised one. I have a few friends that pay child support. One the mother of his child is re-married and combined income is thrice his income. She still requests he pay, and he doesn't mind because he wants to be in the childs life. The other they are equal finacially, so it isn't so burdensome for them. Personally, I think it is unfair if a woman choses to have a child, that a man has no choice in that matter. Just my opinion.

 

[Amanda]

This is a really tough issue. Personally, I'm pro-choice tho I would never have an abortion. I don't think there is a way to be fair to everyone involved. I wish there was. That said, I see far more evidence of men abandoning their parental responsibilities so I think the way we do it now is the best we can do.

 

[We Are They]

If the guy doesn't want to pay child support, he just has to take up the eubonics language, and a rap lifestyle. I don't think that they have a word for "child support" in that language.