The question of Choice.

[Tinktink]

I will most likely have some backlash from women on this, but it isn't my intention to do so, as much as it isn't my intention to challenge which choice is more important.

I want to start off by saying I am all about choice. People will call me pro abortion, which I am not, and that is ok if they do, because they don't see beyond their own interpetation of choice. I am pro choice. But in saying that I have to be pro choice with no limitations.

That being said, I have to ask this. Is choice a right of all human beings, or just some based on their gender or reproductive abilities?

A woman has a right to chose what she wants with her body. In that right to chose, does she have the right to force someone to go along with that choice?

We all know that man cannot demand a woman not abort, in hopes of having a child. That is a given, these days. So men have to face losing what could have been their child because of a woman's right to chose. I understand that. Because in reality the man isn't forced to face the physical aspects of bearing a child.

Here is where the right to chose, becomes a right to women to chose only. And quite dishonest on it's face.

A woman can chose to abort. With that I totally agree. A man can not, which can be justified by the man doesn't face the physical aspects of preganancy.

But if woman chose to not abort in the face of a man not wanting a child, choice has been taken away from one of the two parties involved with no justification. And all of a sudden choice has been ripped away from someone, because of someones right to choice.

If woman wants to chose, then I say they should do so, and take on the responsibility of that choice. Not force those that had no choice, by insistenting they pay for that woman's choice.

Bottom line is this, if women want choice, I am all for giving them that choice, but damn them for stealing that choice from another. Chose to do with what you want with your bodies, but if that isn't shared with another, then stick by your choice and don't demand they pay for it.

In laymans terms, if you want to have the baby and your sperm donor doesn't, give him the right to spend the rest of his life, not paying for your choice.

Choice should be available to all, not just those that have the ability to corner the market on it.

I don't know if I posted this in the right forum. If I didn't please correct me.

 

[Zoom-boing]

When a woman is pregnant she has one of two choices. She can have the baby (and either keep him or give him up for adoption) or she can abort. There's no middle road, it's one or the other.

I'm pro-life and look at it this way. When a woman chooses to abort she places her 'right to choose' over the right of life of an unborn human. (Yes, this is where the big debate of 'human' comes in. Please. Humans reproduce humans so when a woman is pregnant what is growing inside her is human. It's also alive (because if it wasn't it wouldn't need to be aborted). So she is pregnant with human life.) Some women believe their right to choose takes precedence over everything; I believe that the unborn have a right to life and life takes precedence over choice.

 

[Tinktink]

When a woman is pregnant she has one of two choices. She can have the baby (and either keep him or give him up for adoption) or she can abort. There's no middle road, it's one or the other.

I'm pro-life and look at it this way. When a woman chooses to abort she places her 'right to choose' over the right of life of an unborn human. (Yes, this is where the big debate of 'human' comes in. Please. Humans reproduce humans so when a woman is pregnant what is growing inside her is human. It's also alive (because if it wasn't it wouldn't need to be aborted). So she is pregnant with human life.) Some women believe their right to choose takes precedence over everything; I believe that the unborn have a right to life and life takes precedence over choice.

Some very great valid points. Unfortunatly, it doesn't address, what I posted. Does the right of the woman to abort or delivery superceded the right of the father to suffer the consequences of that choice?

If a woman choses to abort against the will of the father, the father of that choice loses the possibility of having a child. If the woman choses to deliver against the choice of the father, the father loses the choice of not having a child, and facing finacial burdens.

I ask again, if you fight for choice, do you fight for it because it suits your needs? Or do fight for it based on what Choice really means? Any woman who choses to abort or deliver, would be hypocrital to say they made the right one... unless they are willing release then men that didn't chose from their obligations.

Doin't you think?

 

[We Are They]

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice. If the guy ain't happy, he should have worn a condom, or not do it in the first place, or even HEY! How about this? Maybe take the time to ask the woman about it BEFORE he gets hard and naked! YA THINK?

 

[Sarah G]

I will most likely have some backlash from women on this, but it isn't my intention to do so, as much as it isn't my intention to challenge which choice is more important.

I want to start off by saying I am all about choice. People will call me pro abortion, which I am not, and that is ok if they do, because they don't see beyond their own interpetation of choice. I am pro choice. But in saying that I have to be pro choice with no limitations.

That being said, I have to ask this. Is choice a right of all human beings, or just some based on their gender or reproductive abilities?

A woman has a right to chose what she wants with her body. In that right to chose, does she have the right to force someone to go along with that choice?

We all know that man cannot demand a woman not abort, in hopes of having a child. That is a given, these days. So men have to face losing what could have been their child because of a woman's right to chose. I understand that. Because in reality the man isn't forced to face the physical aspects of bearing a child.

Here is where the right to chose, becomes a right to women to chose only. And quite dishonest on it's face.

A woman can chose to abort. With that I totally agree. A man can not, which can be justified by the man doesn't face the physical aspects of preganancy.

But if woman chose to not abort in the face of a man not wanting a child, choice has been taken away from one of the two parties involved with no justification. And all of a sudden choice has been ripped away from someone, because of someones right to choice.

If woman wants to chose, then I say they should do so, and take on the responsibility of that choice. Not force those that had no choice, by insistenting they pay for that woman's choice.

Bottom line is this, if women want choice, I am all for giving them that choice, but damn them for stealing that choice from another. Chose to do with what you want with your bodies, but if that isn't shared with another, then stick by your choice and don't demand they pay for it.

In laymans terms, if you want to have the baby and your sperm donor doesn't, give him the right to spend the rest of his life, not paying for your choice.

Choice should be available to all, not just those that have the ability to corner the market on it.

I don't know if I posted this in the right forum. If I didn't please correct me.

That is a problem. If the boy or man doesn't want any rights to the child, he still has to pay for the next 18 years.

It's really up to both to take responsibility in matters like these and use contraception. It's called thinking ahead.

 

[strollingbones]

gentlemen, rogues, liars and thieves...let me explain this to you....a man sperm is his property until he gives or ejaculates that said sperm into a woman....then we have what we would call a property transfer...she now owns the sperm and may do with it as she pleases...

any more questions...so mooron is you dont want an unwanted child do not be having sex with a woman...unless its rosey and her sisters...

o and another hint you dumb bastards.....dont believe her when she says she is on the pill or whatever....use your common sense in the big head....use a condom...latex.....that will prevent more things than unwanted children..

 

[Seraega]

It's too bad these whining pathetic pieces of shit try to call themselves men. A real man would take responsibility for the child he's created and offer his full support without being forced by a court. Stop giving men a bad name you fucking retard.

 

[Tinktink]

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice. If the guy ain't happy, he should have worn a condom, or not do it in the first place, or even HEY! How about this? Maybe take the time to ask the woman about it BEFORE he gets hard and naked! YA THINK?

As a woman I understand that completely. But you must admit, there are many women out there that deceive men because they want to hold on to them, thus finding themselves pregnant. But that is a nother debate.

My point here is this, yes, it is the woman's body and of course her choice. So in giving her that choice are we not stripping men of theirs?

Especially in the support arena of it. If both parties have sex, one party becomes pregnant and choses to have the child against the wishes of another, do we not steal that choice away from him, by making him pay for a mistake that was made by both parties, yet only one is punished for it?

If it were up to me, I would have no problem with men being given the right/choice to abort finacial responsibility when it comes to a woman's choice to have a child against his choice not to.

 

[RodISHI]

gentlemen, rogues, liars and thieves...let me explain this to you....a man sperm is his property until he gives or ejaculates that said sperm into a woman....then we have what we would call a property transfer...she now owns the sperm and may do with it as she pleases...

any more questions...so mooron is you dont want an unwanted child do not be having sex with a woman...unless its rosey and her sisters...

o and another hint you dumb bastards.....dont believe her when she says she is on the pill or whatever....use your common sense in the big head....use a condom...latex.....that will prevent more things than unwanted children..

Real estate. It's all about real estate. Location, location, location.

 

[caela]

This is actually a pretty simple question and the answer is yes..the law strips a man of his right to choose when it comes to parental responsibility. He has no say in whether or not a woman keeps a child (nor should he, he's not the pregnant one) but he also has no right to terminate his rights in anyway unless the mother is putting the child up for adoption, and even that is the mother's choice.

Is it fair? No. Is it the way life is? At the moment...yup. The lesson to be learned, for men, is to not listen when a woman says she's on the pill (nothing is perfect) and to always wear a condom. This way if she's telling the truth you've got a back up in place already and if she's lying you're less likely to be trapped.

Of course you could also come across the rare woman that believes men have a choice as well. As a single mother I game my daughter's sperm donor (I won't call him a father as he's never even seen her) that choice. He didn't want to be a father and I've made no attempt to force him to be involved in any way, shape, or form. I don't want, or need, his money and I certainly don't want a man involved in MY child's life that would only resent that involvement. His name isn't on the birth certificate and so, in my state, she simply has no legal father. That being said, he's made his choice and now gets to live with it...if he shows up in 5 years knocking on the door and suddenly wanting to play "Daddy", it's getting slammed in his face.

 

[Phoenix]

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice. If the guy ain't happy, he should have worn a condom, or not do it in the first place, or even HEY! How about this? Maybe take the time to ask the woman about it BEFORE he gets hard and naked! YA THINK?

If it's her body, she bears the responsibility of taking care of it. That includes preventing unwanted pregnancy. HER responsibility - not his. She needs to think about it before she gets all hot and bothered. Don't you think?

The other thing is - women lie. They'll tell men they are protected when they're not in order to get pregnant to keep a guy, etc.

 

[alan1]

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice. If the guy ain't happy, he should have worn a condom, or not do it in the first place, or even HEY! How about this? Maybe take the time to ask the woman about it BEFORE he gets hard and naked! YA THINK?

If it's her body, she bears the responsibility of taking care of it. That includes preventing unwanted pregnancy. HER responsibility - not his. She needs to think about it before she gets all hot and bothered. Don't you think?

The other thing is - women lie. They'll tell men they are protected when they're not in order to get pregnant to keep a guy, etc.

If a woman has sole discretion to have a baby and expects me to pay child support, then I demand a healthy child from her. I demand input.
While pregnant, she can't use any alcohol, no drugs, no smoking or being around smokers. She has to eat what I consider healthy, which includes lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and some meat (including red meat), lots of dairy. She has to avoid processed foods which tend to be loaded with preservatives, chemicals and too much salt. She has to have proper prenatal care from a doctor.
I could go on, but you get the point.

 

[Phoenix]

If a woman has sole discretion to have a baby and expects me to pay child support, then I demand a healthy child from her. I demand input.
While pregnant, she can't use any alcohol, no drugs, no smoking or being around smokers. She has to eat what I consider healthy, which includes lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and some meat (including red meat), lots of dairy. She has to avoid processed foods which tend to be loaded with preservatives, chemicals and too much salt. She has to have proper prenatal care from a doctor.
I could go on, but you get the point.

If you got her pregnant, you've had all the input you're gonna be able to have.

 

[alan1]

If a woman has sole discretion to have a baby and expects me to pay child support, then I demand a healthy child from her. I demand input.
While pregnant, she can't use any alcohol, no drugs, no smoking or being around smokers. She has to eat what I consider healthy, which includes lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and some meat (including red meat), lots of dairy. She has to avoid processed foods which tend to be loaded with preservatives, chemicals and too much salt. She has to have proper prenatal care from a doctor.
I could go on, but you get the point.

If you got her pregnant, you've had all the input you're gonna be able to have.

Not quite. I ended up with custody of my daughters.

 

[Phoenix]

Not quite. I ended up with custody of my daughters.

A rarity, in today's society.

Typically, men have no rights. And obviously, they couldn't possibly be a better parent than the mother. (sarcasm)

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Could you really say the rights of the father have been violated without justification? I mean, I see your point, I think you can make a good argument for that, but then I think to myself, if I were the poor father whose rights are being 'infringed':

Hey, wait a second... I have tons of other little guys RIGHT HERE *points at groin*! If I really want to have a kid, all I have to do is put another of these trillions of little guys into a different egg!!

Phew!! Problem solved! Jeez, thank GOD for giving us so many of these little fuckers in constant and infinite reproduction until the day we die! Otherwise this might've been a big deal! She can go ahead and kill this one since I have pretty much an INFINITE SUPPLY!! And hell, there's 3.4 BILLION other possible egg-donor candidates.

Well, off to find that lucky egg now.

----

So what's the big deal?

 

[auditor0007]

I will most likely have some backlash from women on this, but it isn't my intention to do so, as much as it isn't my intention to challenge which choice is more important.

I want to start off by saying I am all about choice. People will call me pro abortion, which I am not, and that is ok if they do, because they don't see beyond their own interpetation of choice. I am pro choice. But in saying that I have to be pro choice with no limitations.

That being said, I have to ask this. Is choice a right of all human beings, or just some based on their gender or reproductive abilities?

A woman has a right to chose what she wants with her body. In that right to chose, does she have the right to force someone to go along with that choice?

We all know that man cannot demand a woman not abort, in hopes of having a child. That is a given, these days. So men have to face losing what could have been their child because of a woman's right to chose. I understand that. Because in reality the man isn't forced to face the physical aspects of bearing a child.

Here is where the right to chose, becomes a right to women to chose only. And quite dishonest on it's face.

A woman can chose to abort. With that I totally agree. A man can not, which can be justified by the man doesn't face the physical aspects of preganancy.

But if woman chose to not abort in the face of a man not wanting a child, choice has been taken away from one of the two parties involved with no justification. And all of a sudden choice has been ripped away from someone, because of someones right to choice.

If woman wants to chose, then I say they should do so, and take on the responsibility of that choice. Not force those that had no choice, by insistenting they pay for that woman's choice.

Bottom line is this, if women want choice, I am all for giving them that choice, but damn them for stealing that choice from another. Chose to do with what you want with your bodies, but if that isn't shared with another, then stick by your choice and don't demand they pay for it.

In laymans terms, if you want to have the baby and your sperm donor doesn't, give him the right to spend the rest of his life, not paying for your choice.

Choice should be available to all, not just those that have the ability to corner the market on it.

I don't know if I posted this in the right forum. If I didn't please correct me.

How many kids are you paying child support for?

 

[Ravi]

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice. If the guy ain't happy, he should have worn a condom, or not do it in the first place, or even HEY! How about this? Maybe take the time to ask the woman about it BEFORE he gets hard and naked! YA THINK?

If it's her body, she bears the responsibility of taking care of it. That includes preventing unwanted pregnancy. HER responsibility - not his. She needs to think about it before she gets all hot and bothered. Don't you think?

The other thing is - women lie. They'll tell men they are protected when they're not in order to get pregnant to keep a guy, etc.

So women are evil and men are stupid and must be protected from their own pathetic selves? Not sure if you meant that but it sure sounded like it.

But you are absolutely right--it is HER responsibility and therefore HER choice.

 

[JW Frogen]

So women are evil and men are stupid.

That would be a yes, and a.....yes.

Next question please.

 

[We Are They]

My GFs friend wanted to dump her boyfriend but wanted a baby first because she thought the guy was sooo handsome (he was a troll, lol), so she got preggo and then dumped him. That's a little evil. The guy was still happy to have the kid, but still.