The Question Conservatives Can't Answer

Those gains came from bribing politicians for favorable tax treatment on "earnings" from "minimally taxed financial instruments" that have nothing to do with productive labor.

In 1980 the richest 1% earned 7% of our country's income.
Today they rake in over 20%
The only thing they've earned is a one-way ticket to supermax.

Do you think that we live in a Closed Economy?
That there is a finite amount of wealth to be made and that when someone makes more money someone else must make less in order for it to happen?
No.

I believe there is a finite amount of total US income earned every year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of Americans earned about 7% of that total national income.
Today, they earn over 20% of each year's total national income.

Do you believe they have been working three times harder than the other 99% of Americans over the last forty years?
 
Those gains came from bribing politicians for favorable tax treatment on "earnings" from "minimally taxed financial instruments" that have nothing to do with productive labor.

In 1980 the richest 1% earned 7% of our country's income.
Today they rake in over 20%
The only thing they've earned is a one-way ticket to supermax.

Do you think that we live in a Closed Economy?
That there is a finite amount of wealth to be made and that when someone makes more money someone else must make less in order for it to happen?
No.

I believe there is a finite amount of total US income earned every year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of Americans earned about 7% of that total national income.
Today, they earn over 20% of each year's total national income.

Do you believe they have been working three times harder than the other 99% of Americans over the last forty years?

Now quote for us the total income in 1980 and the total income for the year you stopped at.
 
"The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:

"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.

"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.

"And a question was posed:

"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?

"This question was not posed in sarcasm.

"A factual answer is genuinely sought.

"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.

"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."

Any takers, Cons?

The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
Hey, no matter how many ways you try to inject the poor abused worker bee card, your message still remains the same. You despise anyone who you deem to have somehow cheated you throughout your miserably unproductive life.
Back under your rock.
US Worker bees have been victimized over the last forty years by the richest 1% of their countrymen.
My message is, it is time for economic payback.
Or do you believe that level of inequality is sustainable over the next four decades?
 
Do you think that we live in a Closed Economy?
That there is a finite amount of wealth to be made and that when someone makes more money someone else must make less in order for it to happen?
No.

I believe there is a finite amount of total US income earned every year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of Americans earned about 7% of that total national income.
Today, they earn over 20% of each year's total national income.

Do you believe they have been working three times harder than the other 99% of Americans over the last forty years?

Now quote for us the total income in 1980 and the total income for the year you stopped at.
It looks like 2008 is the most recent year data was available.

"As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum plummeted from 2007 to 2008, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid.

"In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 20.0 percent of adjusted gross income, compared to 2007 when those figures were 40.4 percent and 22.8 percent, respectively.

"Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—were their lowest since 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes."

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
 
where the jobs then? See implying thats its their money and agreeing they did in fact make more of it. You have to concede that trickle down does not work.
Instead what you see is Rich people keeping their money and not in fact expanding their work force.

But people like you cant admit this, because then your blaming of Obama and the current UE would look silly and just hateful.

We haven't cut taxes since 2001. And there was more jobs until this current crisis caused by our Governments screwed up financial problems.

If you want to see jobs, cut taxes, cut spending, and eliminate needless regulation and get the heck out of the way.

It's not the governments job to create jobs. We are supposed to create and find our own jobs. The government just needs to get the heck out of our way and stop burdening us by taxation, inflation, and overspending.

Yea, let's get rid of the job killing EPA and the FDA. I'm sure if there is any poison milk out there, you won't mind your kids finding it first.

China's Poisoned Milk Scandal: Is Sorry Enough? - TIME
they want to do away with all the regulatory agencies, and then when something bad happens they want to turn around and say "See? The government is incompetent."
 
"And a question was posed:

"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?

The reason conservatives can't answer that question is because its premise is a liberal fallacy, that wealth is distributed, not earned
You're conflating wealth and income.

Tax codes influence the share of national income each percentile of taxpayers acquires.
In 1980 the richest 1% of taxpayers held about 8% of national income.
In 2008 they held 20%.

That gain in share of total income was due primarily to tax code changes that shifted the burden of taxation off unearned income and onto wages and salaries.

Bribing Republicans AND Democrats for favorable tax treatment is not the same thing as earning income or wealth.
 
We haven't cut taxes since 2001. And there was more jobs until this current crisis caused by our Governments screwed up financial problems.

If you want to see jobs, cut taxes, cut spending, and eliminate needless regulation and get the heck out of the way.

It's not the governments job to create jobs. We are supposed to create and find our own jobs. The government just needs to get the heck out of our way and stop burdening us by taxation, inflation, and overspending.

Yea, let's get rid of the job killing EPA and the FDA. I'm sure if there is any poison milk out there, you won't mind your kids finding it first.

China's Poisoned Milk Scandal: Is Sorry Enough? - TIME
they want to do away with all the regulatory agencies, and then when something bad happens they want to turn around and say "See? The government is incompetent."
That's been their plan over the last four decades.
Cut the budgets of regulatory agencies then blame "government" whenever anything goes wrong.
Government is only part of the problem, imo.
The richest 5% of Americans and Wall Street are also involved in planning and profiting from crimes against the economy.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth won't phase those most responsible for looting the US economy.
 
The OP is flawed.

It's not "America's income"

Income belongs to those who earn it not to America.
I think the term "America's income" refers to the total US national income earned by all workers in a single year.

The richest 1% of Americans have tripled their share of total income over the last 40 years.

I don't believe they've earned that money in any meaningful way; I'm even more certain that level of inequality is not sustainable over the next four decades.

The freedom to succeed that goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail

You don't get to share in the earnings of others because you feel you are owed it, you deserve it, or that they don't deserve it

Asshole
 
The OP is flawed.

It's not "America's income"

Income belongs to those who earn it not to America.
I think the term "America's income" refers to the total US national income earned by all workers in a single year.

The richest 1% of Americans have tripled their share of total income over the last 40 years.

I don't believe they've earned that money in any meaningful way; I'm even more certain that level of inequality is not sustainable over the next four decades.

When you say "share of income" you are implying that income is a zero sum game.

It's not.
 
It was their money to begin with. They earned it.

When are you on the left going to realize that taxes burden the American people with labor they have to pay the government before they can take care of themselves? The money is theirs.

At what point have they paid their fair share?

where the jobs then? See implying thats its their money and agreeing they did in fact make more of it. You have to concede that trickle down does not work.
Instead what you see is Rich people keeping their money and not in fact expanding their work force.

But people like you cant admit this, because then your blaming of Obama and the current UE would look silly and just hateful.

"See implying thats its their money"

OMG! That's hilarious!
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.
Too fucking bad....Those "gains" are in terms of money that belonged to them in the first place.

If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.
And if worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't fuck with them.

The notion that someone "took money out of the economy" is pure commie bullshit, which is mind boggling in its sheer economic ignorance.

where the jobs twit.?
9.2%, suck it Obama!
 
It was their money to begin with. They earned it.

When are you on the left going to realize that taxes burden the American people with labor they have to pay the government before they can take care of themselves? The money is theirs.

At what point have they paid their fair share?

When they have none left. Of course, that begs the question, who are they going to take it from next?
In 1980 the richest 1% earned at least $148,000 a year.
Today they "earn" a minimum of $450,000 every year.

The didn't earn the extra money.
They bribed politicians to write tax policy shifting the tax burden to wages and salaries.
And they are not done taking.
When are you going to get smart enough to notice?

OMG! That's funny.
If taxes in 1980 were reduced to 0% on those mean richies, how much money would they have?
 
Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.
Too fucking bad....Those "gains" are in terms of money that belonged to them in the first place.

If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.
And if worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't fuck with them.

The notion that someone "took money out of the economy" is pure commie bullshit, which is mind boggling in its sheer economic ignorance.
Those gains came from bribing politicians for favorable tax treatment on "earnings" from "minimally taxed financial instruments" that have nothing to do with productive labor.

In 1980 the richest 1% earned 7% of our country's income.
Today they rake in over 20%
The only thing they've earned is a one-way ticket to supermax.

Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?
 
"The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:

"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.

"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.

"And a question was posed:

"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?

"This question was not posed in sarcasm.

"A factual answer is genuinely sought.

"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.

"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."

Any takers, Cons?

The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams

What do you mean they took a trillion dollars "out" of the economy?? Unless you think it's all sitting in a swiss bank account, the money was invested in companies that help america, or spent (helping america), or loaned out (helping america).

Paying off unions and cronies didnt help America. The unemployment rates trumps your rant.
 
Did you bother reading the link?

"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.

"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income..."

The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams

I've never earned money from tax cuts.
Tax cuts means the gov't takes less than what they had been taking, of money someone earned on his own. No one gave it to him. He did something productive than someone was willing to pay him for.
What did he do to deserve that? He worked.
The better question is, what did people at the bottom of society do to deserve the unprecedented level of benefits they receive?
Tax cuts that shift the tax burden from FIRE sector incomes to wages and salaries are theft.

Taxpayer supplied bail outs supply the same service to our creditor class, as proven by the $14 trillion gift to Wall Street that doubled the richest 5% of Americans share of returns to wealth in less than a single decade while keeping the debt overhead in place for 98% of Americans.

$14 trillion gift? Please explain further.
 
I've never earned money from tax cuts.
Tax cuts means the gov't takes less than what they had been taking, of money someone earned on his own. No one gave it to him. He did something productive than someone was willing to pay him for.
What did he do to deserve that? He worked.
The better question is, what did people at the bottom of society do to deserve the unprecedented level of benefits they receive?
Tax cuts that shift the tax burden from FIRE sector incomes to wages and salaries are theft.

Taxpayer supplied bail outs supply the same service to our creditor class, as proven by the $14 trillion gift to Wall Street that doubled the richest 5% of Americans share of returns to wealth in less than a single decade while keeping the debt overhead in place for 98% of Americans.

$14 trillion gift? Please explain further.

Don't bother, he's off his rocker.
 
they want to do away with all the regulatory agencies, and then when something bad happens they want to turn around and say "See? The government is incompetent."
Yet when gubmint bureaucrats and regulators display their staggering incompetence (see: Madoff) they claim that as evidence that they need even more power.


I guess the Madoff case is just one more thing you have absolutely no clue about. The SEC and other regulatory agencies have been stripped bare under Bush, and Christopher Cox was non-existent as Bush's Appointed One. In fact, on the day that one of the major financials was collapsing, he was at his kid's birthday party - and didn't bother to leave!

Madoff's power and influence grew to a point where the few regulators were intimidated. He had many powerful friends who invested with him.

Here are a few good interviews:

Examining Bernie Madoff, 'The Wizard Of Lies' : NPR

James Stewart's Tangled Webs Explores Perjury in America, Do We All Tell Lies?, Prime Time Radio


I'm sure you will ignore them and cling to your ignorance.
 
Hmmm. It seems that you guys don't want to discuss anything that doesn't demonize or blame "the other side" completely. The points below don't point the finger at the rich but on the other side, they do legitimately criticize certain policies which are currently backed by the GOP. But nah. Keep on talking about why none of those points are relevant and it's the "the danm Socialist Dems fault" or that people who don't take the risk to start their own business, are "victimized". Okay, if that's your cup of tea. But neither ConservaRepubs nor LibDems seem to be posting much that is based on more than emotion or the talking points fed by the pundits. Just an observation...

I'm not a "Con" (although I've been called it a few times) but I'll offer a few ideas.
1. Technology. It has had the same effect on wealth creation as on many other things: acceleration. While technology has contributed to the decline of income from all those people who used to work at say, printing shops or travel agencies, it has increased the amount and rate at which the rich can leverage their specialized knowledge (i.e. how to get rich or richer) into even more wealth.
2. Globalization. We can monitor the NIKKEI in real time, send and receive contracts, orders etc... across the globe in seconds. So people who have the ability to get rich, have certain skills. Now they can leverage them even more efficiently and in more places.
3. In one respect you're right - but not when it comes to personal tax breaks. Where you're right is Corps. Corporations have been given BILLIONS is special tax breaks, subsidies etc... since the 80's, that they never used to get. It used to be, these tax breaks and subsidies were reserved only for businesses that were helping the public good (like phone companies putting phone lines in rural areas that wouldn't be profitible to them, because of the low number of customers) but now? Big Oil? Other Multi-National companies? They are not providing some new technology or service that Americans wouldn't otherwise have. They aren't building bridges or infrastructure. They haven't been for decades. But they still get our money. This defnitely helps the rich get richer and faster.

So I'm not demonizing the rich. I don't fault them their success and I feel blessed to have mine. I'm just making an Independent's observations.
 

Forum List

Back
Top