The queer's just keep pushing...

[CivilLiberty]

notice religion never came into my argument only science

And your opinion, which isn't science.

And by the way, what is the religion thing about homos? What, exactly, does the bible say?


A

 

[MissileMan]

Even if a genetic link was discovered we still are able to reason right vs wrong, hence homosexuality is wrong we don't do it. I have genetic link towards running people off the road I don't like, its wrong so I don't do it.

You see after all the bullshit is sorted through at the end of the day you have a simple choice between right and wrong. The choice is easy.

Actually, you seem to have a genetic inability to distinguish your beliefs from facts. I knew I could depend on you to make this argument though. You don't care if people are actually born gay or not. Even if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that people are born gay, you will oppose their existence.

 

[no1tovote4]

And your opinion, which isn't science.

And by the way, what is the religion thing about homos? What, exactly, does the bible say?


A

That it is abhorrent to God.

http://www.dianedew.com/homosexl.htm

Here is a website for ya.

I. Although homosexuality has in these last days become more and more acceptable to society, it is nonetheless evil and wicked in the sight of God.

II. When God created man and woman He intended that there remain a respect within His people for the distinction He had made between the two sexes.

Deuteronomy 22:5

A. Homosexuality became widely practiced in Old Testament times.

Genesis 19:5-11

Judges 19:22
(The Hebrew word here translated "know" literally means "to have intercourse or relations with." It is the same word used in Genesis 4:1, in which it is recorded that "Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain ..." It is also used in the same sense in Genesis 24:16; 1 Samuel 1:19b; and Luke 1:34.)

B. It was still common during the time of the first century church.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

C. Scripture even indicates that, in the end times, the homosexual way of life will become openly practiced and generally accepted by society as a whole.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

III. How serious an offense is it?

A. Under the Law, the act was considered "worthy of death."

Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:27, 32

B. Scripture clearly says those guilty of this transgression are unfit to inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9
1 Timothy 1:10

IV. It is an abomination to God.

A. The sin is self-defiling.

Leviticus 18:22, 24

B. It is unnatural (Romans 1:27, 31; 2 Timothy 3:3), and to accept or encourage this way of life is "contrary to sound doctrine" (1 Timothy 1:10).

C. God abhors it!

Leviticus 20:13, 23

D. Believers are expected to "put aside" such evil practices of their former way of life.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 11
("... and such were (p.t.) some of you ...")

E. Because they refused to abandon their wicked ways "God gave them up." (They became reprobate.)

Romans 1:24, 26-32
Ephesians 4:17-19

V. It is possible to be set free from the bondage of this offense. The sin is not unforgivable.

1 Corinthians 6:11, 9-10

 

[Yurt]

I posted here a few days ago, I just re read the post after getting some pretty nasty notes from Pale and reading his post.

My post was bungled. I thought I fixed the errors, however, the post was missing paragraphs and such.

There is no need to go back and belabor the whole point. Further, I do not wish to incite Pale any further as I happen to think he is a pretty decent guy with a few overly staunch opinions. Like someone once told me:

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one."

True enough. However, opinions do not need to be violent.

This whole issue with being "gay" as being biological has not been proven. There is truly no scientific "fact" proving this one way or the other. The research on this is based on numerous factors that have little to do with sexual attraction. I don't have the hard research here, but trust me, this is not scientific fact.

My main issue is with those who HATE gay PEOPLE, solely for being gay. If you are a Christian, then you are violating what the Bible says. If you are not, then depending on your morals (I am not sure what a non Christian, i.e., non religious persons morals are), you should not hate someone simply because they "commit" an act that, all in all, does not really affect you. I know this opens the proverbial door (i got it, ok), but this "act" can truly not be attributed to other criminal acts, unless one purposefully abuses this by spreading disease. Should a bisexual lie to his/her partner about their past, this probably is a moral issue, unless again (more so with men) there is a health issue, something very relevant to acting out one’s homosexual desires.

That said, one can dislike the act of homosexuality, however, do Hate the person. Political agendas? As said before, there are many gay people with no political agenda.

Homosexuality is an abomination to God. However, Jesus also pointed out to us that “even looking at another” in “lustful” way is committing adultery. Adultery is so bad that it was written down in stone. Nothing compares with those 10, nothing, except, what Jesus told us in the new testament. Another subject though.

Therefore, let those without any sins throw stones.

If there are any out there, let me know, I will duck….

 

[007]

Fair post yurt, and no hard feelings. I don't think you're that bad either. And you know as well as I do, I never PM'd you any nasty notes. There was only heated returns in conversation here.

But, it would appear as you pointed out, that this topic seems to be boiling down to the same thing every time. Whether or not science will ever be able to prove homosexuality and/or lesbianism from birth. Until then, we'll have to take these people's word for it that they feel they were born that way. In any case, they'd still have had a "choice" as to whether or not to act on their urges, or get help.

I think most everyone on earth, most without openly ever admitting it, think that homosexuality and lesbianism is wrong. They chose, for whatever reason, to either ignore the issue, stay silent, or go along with whatever the popular opinion is just to spare themselves the hassle of explaining WHY they feel as they do, and to disagree with a pro-homosexual liberal can be a rather daunting, intimidating experience, so most forego the displeasure. Myself... I say bring it. Let's dance.

To me, being on the right side of an arguement not only gives me pleasure, but it gives me strength, and that bugs the shit out of the liberals here on this board, to hear me say all those things they thought they had buried for good inside the "you can't say that because it's not politically correct lock box".

Thank God... and Jimmy... for a prodominently conservative and open blogger board.

 

[007]

And your opinion, which isn't science.

And by the way, what is the religion thing about homos? What, exactly, does the bible say?


A

And maybe a little more to the point reading to answer your quesion...

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

2. Biblical History Speaks Against it:

Genesis 19:4-12, "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:23-28, "The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

1 Kings 14:24, "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

1 Kings 15:11-12, "And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

1 Kings 22:41-46, "And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel. Jehoshaphat was thirty and five years old when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Azubah the daughter of Shilhi. And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places. And Jehoshaphat made peace with the king of Israel. Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his might that he shewed, and how he warred, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah? And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

2 Kings 23:7, "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

3. The Prophets of the Old Testament Speak Against it:

Isaiah 1:9, "Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."

Isaiah 3:9, "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."

Isaiah 13:19, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

Lamentations 4:6, "For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

Ezekiel 16:49, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

4. The New Testament Speaks Against it:

Romans 1:26-32, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

1 Timothy 1:9-10, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

2 Peter 2:6, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

 

[no1tovote4]

And maybe a little more to the point reading to answer your quesion...

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

2. Biblical History Speaks Against it:

Genesis 19:4-12, "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:23-28, "The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

1 Kings 14:24, "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

1 Kings 15:11-12, "And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

1 Kings 22:41-46, "And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel. Jehoshaphat was thirty and five years old when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Azubah the daughter of Shilhi. And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places. And Jehoshaphat made peace with the king of Israel. Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his might that he shewed, and how he warred, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah? And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

2 Kings 23:7, "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

3. The Prophets of the Old Testament Speak Against it:

Isaiah 1:9, "Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."

Isaiah 3:9, "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."

Isaiah 13:19, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

Lamentations 4:6, "For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

Ezekiel 16:49, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

4. The New Testament Speaks Against it:

Romans 1:26-32, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

1 Timothy 1:9-10, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

2 Peter 2:6, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

But like all other sin, it is not unforgivable.

V. It is possible to be set free from the bondage of this offense. The sin is not unforgivable.

1 Corinthians 6:11, 9-10

And according to the Bible, not even one person on this board hasn't sinned. That the sins are forgivable gives you reason to rejoice if you believe in this religion. The fact that you have been saved does not give you a right to judge them as less of a person than you, or their sin more heinous than yours. They may not be saved yet, but like any other group their sin is forgivable if you simply convert them. Attempting to demonize them for their sin in such a great disproportion to every other sin out there is detrimental to the effort of conversion and cannot serve any purpose other than to make people feel better about their less obvious sin and feel they are more worthy of the salvation that was freely given to all.

At least that seems to be what is represented to me by what is written in the Bible.

 

[CivilLiberty]

But like all other sin, it is not unforgivable.

And according to the Bible, not even one person on this board hasn't sinned. That the sins are forgivable gives you reason to rejoice if you believe in this religion. The fact that you have been saved does not give you a right to judge them as less of a person than you, or their sin more heinous than yours. .

As Jesus Christ said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Somehow I tend to think that any "Christian" who fails to understand or follow this very basic teaching of Christ, is not particularly Christian.



A

 

[dilloduck]

As Jesus Christ said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Somehow I tend to think that any "Christian" who fails to understand or follow this very basic teaching of Christ, is not particularly Christian.



A

I don't however think Jesus ever said "If you see someone sinning, do nothing about it" but your right, some people are a bit more advanced in their ongoing practice of Christianity.

 

[OCA]

And your opinion, which isn't science.

And by the way, what is the religion thing about homos? What, exactly, does the bible say?


A

Go to the book of Romans and look it up. Something to the effect of and don't quote me "if man should lyeth with man it is an abomination in the eyes of God", the bible also says something to the effect of not associating with continuois sinners, and yes we all sin but to those who don't even sacknowledge their sin I say fuck off.

 

[OCA]

Actually, you seem to have a genetic inability to distinguish your beliefs from facts. I knew I could depend on you to make this argument though. You don't care if people are actually born gay or not. Even if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that people are born gay, you will oppose their existence.

Give me some indisputeable facts and lets se, so far its just bullshit from your side.

If people are proven to be born gay at that point then they will be held responsible for their actions just like we do now, since we all have self control and we all know that homosexuality is wrong so if you partake then you will and should be shunned. Though at that point I would hope that people would seek medical help to have their horomonal imbalance fixed.

 

[OCA]

I posted here a few days ago, I just re read the post after getting some pretty nasty notes from Pale and reading his post.

My post was bungled. I thought I fixed the errors, however, the post was missing paragraphs and such.

There is no need to go back and belabor the whole point. Further, I do not wish to incite Pale any further as I happen to think he is a pretty decent guy with a few overly staunch opinions. Like someone once told me:

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one."

True enough. However, opinions do not need to be violent.

This whole issue with being "gay" as being biological has not been proven. There is truly no scientific "fact" proving this one way or the other. The research on this is based on numerous factors that have little to do with sexual attraction. I don't have the hard research here, but trust me, this is not scientific fact.

My main issue is with those who HATE gay PEOPLE, solely for being gay. If you are a Christian, then you are violating what the Bible says. If you are not, then depending on your morals (I am not sure what a non Christian, i.e., non religious persons morals are), you should not hate someone simply because they "commit" an act that, all in all, does not really affect you. I know this opens the proverbial door (i got it, ok), but this "act" can truly not be attributed to other criminal acts, unless one purposefully abuses this by spreading disease. Should a bisexual lie to his/her partner about their past, this probably is a moral issue, unless again (more so with men) there is a health issue, something very relevant to acting out one’s homosexual desires.

That said, one can dislike the act of homosexuality, however, do Hate the person. Political agendas? As said before, there are many gay people with no political agenda.

Homosexuality is an abomination to God. However, Jesus also pointed out to us that “even looking at another” in “lustful” way is committing adultery. Adultery is so bad that it was written down in stone. Nothing compares with those 10, nothing, except, what Jesus told us in the new testament. Another subject though.

Therefore, let those without any sins throw stones.

If there are any out there, let me know, I will duck….

You see it has nothing to with hating gays, it has to do with their trying to force their perversion of choice down people's throats. If you want to bang your buddy in the brown eye in the privacy of your own home go for it but just know that society will rightfully judge you and that America is not going to officially recognize their perversion of choice. Whats next? Special rights for crack smokers? And yes HLCP's are born with every inalienable right in America that you and I do, they are being denied nothing.