The Problem With Government Unions, TSA Workers

[ScreamingEagle]

Not sure of the constitutionality...I will leave that to the attorneys.
Logically....a union can only hamper the efficency opf the cause. Yes, when it comes to business it is easy to say that the people MUST come before profit. I do not necessarily agree with unions, but I repsect that premise.

But when it comes to our safety......should the rights of the employees who are governed by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT come beofre the lives of the citizens that pay their salaries?

Bear in mind...we are not talking about some greedy little employer out there who may do the worng thing.....we are talking about the federal government.......so we should risk the lives of the people so we can have a union ensure the government does the rfight thing for their emplyees?

Yes, this is all about protection of America....we should not unionize a security force....

or should we also unionize the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, etc........?

TSA isn't a military force. Perhaps if it was, with all the bennies and perks that service personnel enjoy they wouldn't bother thinking about unionizing.

No it is not a military force but it IS a security force to protect America....and thus ordinary union shit need not apply...

 

[jillian]

Government unions are another arm of the Democrat Party. Employees can't strike in many cases, there is no need for a union. It is against the law for many of them to strike. So you create a union where Democrats can get rich off of employee wages, do little for the employees themselves, and use pension cash to fund Democrats no matter the issue.

There, I said it out loud. Let's discuss.

I have no idea why the media won't tell the story correctly.

How is it not being reported accurately?

You think its ok for workers not to get raises?

 

[Oldandtired]

Yes, this is all about protection of America....we should not unionize a security force....

or should we also unionize the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, etc........?

Here in NYC, our MTA is unionized. With the coimfort of protection, our bridge securtiy officers have been found sleeping while working....
And their punishment? Paid leave of absense and a course that mnust be taken to educate one on the importance of a good night sleep before going to work.
Gee....ya think that maybe a "paid vacation" for working "lazy"is an incentive to work hard?

A course to teach someone the importance of a good night's sleep? hahahahaha
The bum should be fired, period.

Another example of the dumbing down of America....while we're becoming nothing more than sitting ducks...

Yeah...it is like the argument of...

"the employee only received one warning saying that his attendance is not appropriate"

DO they really need someone to tell them that taking off too many days is not a good idea if you wish to keep your job? And better yet....they should be given MORE than one warning?

 

[Oldandtired]

Government unions are another arm of the Democrat Party. Employees can't strike in many cases, there is no need for a union. It is against the law for many of them to strike. So you create a union where Democrats can get rich off of employee wages, do little for the employees themselves, and use pension cash to fund Democrats no matter the issue.

There, I said it out loud. Let's discuss.

I have no idea why the media won't tell the story correctly.

How is it not being reported accurately?

You think its ok for workers not to get raises?

This is America.
If you do not like your raise....QUIT.
If everyone quits, the employer loses.
I just dont get it.

 

[jillian]

This is America.
If you do not like your raise....QUIT.
If everyone quits, the employer loses.
I just dont get it.

The TSA is the only government agency that does not have collective bargaining. There is no justification for that. And no justification for TSA not being on normal governmental pay scales.

puleeze... quit?

you want the people who are charged with your safety to not be paid appropriately for their work?

nice words... especially whiile you're pounding your chest and standing on your "me, me, me" soapbox.

but not very smart.

And I asked a question... how is the story not being reported accurately?

DeMint is holding up an important appointment because he's afraid that TSA will actually get paid for its work.... AS HE VOTES FOR HIS OWN PAY INCREASES.

 

[Oldandtired]

This is America.
If you do not like your raise....QUIT.
If everyone quits, the employer loses.
I just dont get it.

The TSA is the only government agency that does not have collective bargaining. There is no justification for that. And no justification for TSA not being on normal governmental pay scales.

puleeze... quit?

you want the people who are charged with your safety to not be paid appropriately for their work?

nice words... especially whiile you're pounding your chest and standing on your "me, me, me" soapbox.

but not very smart.

What are you talking about?
I was talking about your line about workers deserving raises....NOT strictly TSA employees.
Jeez....did you spin that intentionally or did I not articulate myself well enough?

 

[jillian]

What are you talking about?
I was talking about your line about workers deserving raises....NOT strictly TSA employees.
Jeez....did you spin that intentionally or did I not articulate myself well enough?

This thread is about the TSA. And that's what my post referred to. I thought that pretty clear.

Perhaps you were just off topic.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, this is all about protection of America....we should not unionize a security force....

or should we also unionize the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, etc........?

TSA isn't a military force. Perhaps if it was, with all the bennies and perks that service personnel enjoy they wouldn't bother thinking about unionizing.

No it is not a military force but it IS a security force to protect America....and thus ordinary union shit need not apply...

And ordinary union stuff DOES NOT APPLY with these workers.

 

[FireFly]

Toilet Paper Holder for Sale Cheap—Only $375.00!

The manager with Alyeska's field was forced to call in a carpenter to repair a toilet paper holder. The carpenter came in, dressed for work, of course."Hey Jim, I'd like you to go over and fix the toilet paper holder in B dorm." "Okay," said Jim and off he went. Forty-five minutes went by, and Jim, the carpenter, returned. "Hey," he said, "I can't do that job over there. That's a metal wall and it has to have a screw put in it. That's not a carpenter's job—you ought to know that. That's a metal worker's job. The union would not let me do that."

You notice that it had taken him 45 minutes to decide that, and he then came back to the office. Of course, we must allow the man to have time off for coffee and a cigarette. However, I did think 45 minutes was just a little long. "All right," said the manager, and he did the expected thing and called over a metal worker. In due time the metalworker arrived, and he in turn was told of the urgent need to repair the toilet paper holder on the metal wall in the dorm. Off went the metal worker, and about an hour later he came back. I was still there, for there were some matters that I needed to go over in detail with the manager. In walked the metal worker saying "Hey, I can't do this. This involves a screwdriver. That's a laborer's job, and I'm a metal worker. I just tie metal together. You can't expect me to do a laborer's work."

The manager was beginning to feel frustrated, though not all that much, for after all these things happen so often. "All right," he said, "I'll send for one of the laborers." And he did. A little while later a laborer came in, and the manager carefully explained to him what dormitory it was he was to go to. He was very particular, because he had the impression that the man might not be following him very closely. The laborer went off, apparently knowing what it was all about. It was probably 40 minutes later when the laborer came in with his story as to why he could not fix that toilet paper holder on that metal wall in B dorm. - "Hey, you can't expect me to do this. That screw you talked about—that's gotta go into some wood there—you know that as well as I do. That's a carpenter's job —I'd be on strike if I were to go against the union rules in a thing like this."

The manager this time really frustrated, "What do I do with that line up of men who are wanting to use the toilet paper?" In desperation the manager now called in the foreman of the metal workers, the foreman of the carpenters, and the foreman of the laborers, hoping to be able to figure out some way in which somebody, somewhere, somehow could fix that toilet paper holder onto the metal wall with the little bit of wood over in B dorm.

So, these foremen came in, each of them being paid about $25.00 an hour. The carpenter would have earned something like $15.00 an hour, the metal worker about the same, and the laborer a little less. So the foremen were called in. The doors were closed. Chairs were drawn up. They sat down to this very important conference. None dare interrupt. It was almost as though the blinds should be drawn in case anybody would happen to see over their shoulders as they seriously discussed regulations for putting toilet paper holders on walls—no, not just walls, metal walls with wood protruding.

At last an amicable arrangement was entered into. The decision was that the foremen would call up one man from each of their ranks, and those three men would go together to that metal wall with the wood protruding over in B dorm. There was no decision made as to who would actually lift the toilet paper container, but it was agreed that the three foremen themselves would be there to insure that nobody did anything that was against the union rules. So the procession went across to B dorm.

We were told later what happened. One man would pick up the screwdriver. The other would pick up the piece of wood. The other would hold the screw. Between them they eventually managed to get the toilet paper holder back onto that metal wall with the piece of wood protruding, without offending any union rules. The three officials were satisfied, the workmen were pleased with their noble day's work, and the line of men that had congregated at the other toilets was reduced as the word went around that the toilet in B dorm was again in working condition.

 

[Oldandtired]

What are you talking about?
I was talking about your line about workers deserving raises....NOT strictly TSA employees.
Jeez....did you spin that intentionally or did I not articulate myself well enough?

This thread is about the TSA. And that's what my post referred to. I thought that pretty clear.

Perhaps you were just off topic.

Actually, the post started about the TSA and unions and the debate went in the direction of the pros and cons of unions....and THAT is what I was referring to.

Perhaps you decided to respond to a post without reading what that post was responding to?

I thought you were an experienced debater on here. I guess you are not. You see, Jillian, many debates on here start off one way and then trend in a slightly different direction. This is a classic example of this. There were solid arghuments as to why ynions were gfood and why they were bad for the TSA...so the debate tunred to the pros and cons for unions....not just for a union for the TSA.

Sorry. I did not realize you were an inexperienced debater.

 

[jillian]

Actually, the post started about the TSA and unions and the debate went in the direction of the pros and cons of unions....and THAT is what I was referring to.

Perhaps you decided to respond to a post without reading what that post was responding to?

I thought you were an experienced debater on here. I guess you are not. You see, Jillian, many debates on here start off one way and then trend in a slightly different direction. This is a classic example of this. There were solid arghuments as to why ynions were gfood and why they were bad for the TSA...so the debate tunred to the pros and cons for unions....not just for a union for the TSA.

Sorry. I did not realize you were an inexperienced debater.

I responded to the O/P. You chose to respond to me without observing what I responded to.

As for inexperience, not hardly. Nice non sequitur though.

typical... you were embarrassed so lash out. *shrug*

 

[Ravi]

Actually, the post started about the TSA and unions and the debate went in the direction of the pros and cons of unions....and THAT is what I was referring to.

Perhaps you decided to respond to a post without reading what that post was responding to?

I thought you were an experienced debater on here. I guess you are not. You see, Jillian, many debates on here start off one way and then trend in a slightly different direction. This is a classic example of this. There were solid arghuments as to why ynions were gfood and why they were bad for the TSA...so the debate tunred to the pros and cons for unions....not just for a union for the TSA.

Sorry. I did not realize you were an inexperienced debater.

I responded to the O/P. You chose to respond to me without observing what I responded to.

As for inexperience, not hardly. Nice non sequitur though.

typical... you were embarrassed so lash out. *shrug*

Maybe his brain is also old and tired and stumbling...

 

[Oldandtired]

Actually, the post started about the TSA and unions and the debate went in the direction of the pros and cons of unions....and THAT is what I was referring to.

Perhaps you decided to respond to a post without reading what that post was responding to?

I thought you were an experienced debater on here. I guess you are not. You see, Jillian, many debates on here start off one way and then trend in a slightly different direction. This is a classic example of this. There were solid arghuments as to why ynions were gfood and why they were bad for the TSA...so the debate tunred to the pros and cons for unions....not just for a union for the TSA.

Sorry. I did not realize you were an inexperienced debater.

I responded to the O/P. You chose to respond to me without observing what I responded to.

As for inexperience, not hardly. Nice non sequitur though.

typical... you were embarrassed so lash out. *shrug*

OK...fair enough.
But I was not embarrassed.......not at that point....but now I see your point...so maybe a little red faced here.

So tell me....you feel a government employee should get a raise in a recession where many are losing their jobs and few in the public sector saw any raises at all?

 

[rightwinger]

Toilet Paper Holder for Sale Cheap—Only $375.00!

The manager with Alyeska's field was forced to call in a carpenter to repair a toilet paper holder. The carpenter came in, dressed for work, of course."Hey Jim, I'd like you to go over and fix the toilet paper holder in B dorm." "Okay," said Jim and off he went. Forty-five minutes went by, and Jim, the carpenter, returned. "Hey," he said, "I can't do that job over there. That's a metal wall and it has to have a screw put in it. That's not a carpenter's job—you ought to know that. That's a metal worker's job. The union would not let me do that."

You notice that it had taken him 45 minutes to decide that, and he then came back to the office. Of course, we must allow the man to have time off for coffee and a cigarette. However, I did think 45 minutes was just a little long. "All right," said the manager, and he did the expected thing and called over a metal worker. In due time the metalworker arrived, and he in turn was told of the urgent need to repair the toilet paper holder on the metal wall in the dorm. Off went the metal worker, and about an hour later he came back. I was still there, for there were some matters that I needed to go over in detail with the manager. In walked the metal worker saying "Hey, I can't do this. This involves a screwdriver. That's a laborer's job, and I'm a metal worker. I just tie metal together. You can't expect me to do a laborer's work."

The manager was beginning to feel frustrated, though not all that much, for after all these things happen so often. "All right," he said, "I'll send for one of the laborers." And he did. A little while later a laborer came in, and the manager carefully explained to him what dormitory it was he was to go to. He was very particular, because he had the impression that the man might not be following him very closely. The laborer went off, apparently knowing what it was all about. It was probably 40 minutes later when the laborer came in with his story as to why he could not fix that toilet paper holder on that metal wall in B dorm. - "Hey, you can't expect me to do this. That screw you talked about—that's gotta go into some wood there—you know that as well as I do. That's a carpenter's job —I'd be on strike if I were to go against the union rules in a thing like this."

The manager this time really frustrated, "What do I do with that line up of men who are wanting to use the toilet paper?" In desperation the manager now called in the foreman of the metal workers, the foreman of the carpenters, and the foreman of the laborers, hoping to be able to figure out some way in which somebody, somewhere, somehow could fix that toilet paper holder onto the metal wall with the little bit of wood over in B dorm.

So, these foremen came in, each of them being paid about $25.00 an hour. The carpenter would have earned something like $15.00 an hour, the metal worker about the same, and the laborer a little less. So the foremen were called in. The doors were closed. Chairs were drawn up. They sat down to this very important conference. None dare interrupt. It was almost as though the blinds should be drawn in case anybody would happen to see over their shoulders as they seriously discussed regulations for putting toilet paper holders on walls—no, not just walls, metal walls with wood protruding.

At last an amicable arrangement was entered into. The decision was that the foremen would call up one man from each of their ranks, and those three men would go together to that metal wall with the wood protruding over in B dorm. There was no decision made as to who would actually lift the toilet paper container, but it was agreed that the three foremen themselves would be there to insure that nobody did anything that was against the union rules. So the procession went across to B dorm.

We were told later what happened. One man would pick up the screwdriver. The other would pick up the piece of wood. The other would hold the screw. Between them they eventually managed to get the toilet paper holder back onto that metal wall with the piece of wood protruding, without offending any union rules. The three officials were satisfied, the workmen were pleased with their noble day's work, and the line of men that had congregated at the other toilets was reduced as the word went around that the toilet in B dorm was again in working condition.

Nice fable

Have any others?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Here in NYC, our MTA is unionized. With the coimfort of protection, our bridge securtiy officers have been found sleeping while working....
And their punishment? Paid leave of absense and a course that mnust be taken to educate one on the importance of a good night sleep before going to work.
Gee....ya think that maybe a "paid vacation" for working "lazy"is an incentive to work hard?

A course to teach someone the importance of a good night's sleep? hahahahaha
The bum should be fired, period.

Another example of the dumbing down of America....while we're becoming nothing more than sitting ducks...

Yeah...it is like the argument of...

"the employee only received one warning saying that his attendance is not appropriate"

DO they really need someone to tell them that taking off too many days is not a good idea if you wish to keep your job? And better yet....they should be given MORE than one warning?

No they don't and no they shouldn't....not if it means a terrorist boarding a plane because they fall asleep on the job...

Unions are nothing more than intrusions upon company ownership. They are useful to a point such as safety issues which is why they got started in the first place....but today they are taking it way further and under Obama the unions are becoming "partners" with the capitalists who run businesses...and guess who is controlling the unions......?

In any case, I'm against using stupid minimum wage grunts for security anyway....they aren't going to stop much....a good terrorist is going to outsmart them anyhow....TSA should become a REAL security force...

We need to stop harrassing the public and use PROFILING to ferret out the real dangers...

 

[jillian]

OK...fair enough.
But I was not embarrassed.......not at that point....but now I see your point...so maybe a little red faced here.

So tell me....you feel a government employee should get a raise in a recession where many are losing their jobs and few in the public sector saw any raises at all?

lol.. fair enough. it's all good.

I think the TSA employees should get the same pay scales and benefits as every other government employee. There isn't any reason to single them out other than that the TSA didn't exist pre-9/11 so DeMint is trying to keep them from being treated the same.

If all other government workers weren't treated differently, I might take a different position.

Also, it's not like DeMint's salary hasn't gone up since 1991.

http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_pay.htm

 

[dan22]

 

[ScreamingEagle]

OK...fair enough.
But I was not embarrassed.......not at that point....but now I see your point...so maybe a little red faced here.

So tell me....you feel a government employee should get a raise in a recession where many are losing their jobs and few in the public sector saw any raises at all?

lol.. fair enough. it's all good.

I think the TSA employees should get the same pay scales and benefits as every other government employee. There isn't any reason to single them out other than that the TSA didn't exist pre-9/11 so DeMint is trying to keep them from being treated the same.

If all other government workers weren't treated differently, I might take a different position.

Also, it's not like DeMint's salary hasn't gone up since 1991.

I think we should get rid of most of the government slugs....

And give DeMint a HUGE raise...

 

[Oldandtired]

OK...fair enough.
But I was not embarrassed.......not at that point....but now I see your point...so maybe a little red faced here.

So tell me....you feel a government employee should get a raise in a recession where many are losing their jobs and few in the public sector saw any raises at all?

lol.. fair enough. it's all good.

I think the TSA employees should get the same pay scales and benefits as every other government employee. There isn't any reason to single them out other than that the TSA didn't exist pre-9/11 so DeMint is trying to keep them from being treated the same.

If all other government workers weren't treated differently, I might take a different position.

Also, it's not like DeMint's salary hasn't gone up since 1991.

CongressLink: [Congress: The Basics - Institution] Resources: Congressional Pay Rates

As I see it...Unions are to protect the employee.

However, unlike private industry where the employee is to come before the cause (profit), I am not convinced that the employee of the TSA should come before the cause (safety for the US).

As I see it...if the empoloyee prefers an environemnt where they have all of their rights protected, go to prrivate industry with a union. If the employee prefers to work for the people as it pertains to their safety, he or she must uynderstand that since there is no room ofr error....THE CAUSE IS PRIORITY...not the employee.

So the employee has the choice to NOT apply for the psoiition....whereas we, the people, do not have ANY choice as it pertains to the qauality of the employee hired to proitect us.

That is my opinion.

As for Demint....NO ONE IN CONGRESS DESERVES A RAISE DURING A RECESSION.

 

[jillian]

OK...fair enough.
But I was not embarrassed.......not at that point....but now I see your point...so maybe a little red faced here.

So tell me....you feel a government employee should get a raise in a recession where many are losing their jobs and few in the public sector saw any raises at all?

lol.. fair enough. it's all good.

I think the TSA employees should get the same pay scales and benefits as every other government employee. There isn't any reason to single them out other than that the TSA didn't exist pre-9/11 so DeMint is trying to keep them from being treated the same.

If all other government workers weren't treated differently, I might take a different position.

Also, it's not like DeMint's salary hasn't gone up since 1991.

I think we should get rid of most of the government slugs....

And give DeMint a HUGE raise...

you need to go back to your fetal position, in your bomb shelter, with your gun across your lap, whining eagle.