The Pledge of Allegiance

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by acludem, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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  2. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Then WHY, may I ask, was there ever any reference to any separation of "Church and State"? Personally, I'm not against the proliferation of any religion in this country. But you indicate that you might be. I still believe that the wall between our government and our many religions should be upheld. I surely don't desire any compellation from any quarter which of these religions I should embrace.
     
  3. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    Your statement:

    "Our founding fathers rejected religion as a premise or foundation for our government. Do a little reading, PLEASE."

    was not about what you believed nor what you wanted. And since you challenged to do a little reading I reply that in a substantial number of writings such as those above and various other documents there is certain rebuttal to your contention that our nation was founded "devoid of religion".

    It was not in it's gestation, infancy nor the next several hundred years devoid of any link to a higher power named God or our Lord. It was merely free. There is a difference.
     
  4. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Nice obfuscation, but not an answer to my question. Need I repeat it?
     
  5. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    Your question being why was there any reference to a separation between church and state? I don't need to answer that question because you did not state where you think those words appear in a document upon which this country was founded. Let me know where it appears, I'll answer the question then.

    And my post was not obfuscation, it was clarification. You did not produce one document in which a ruling body in this country- before, during or after it's creation - wrote the words "separation of church and state" but I can come up with a dozen or so which use the words "God", "Lord", "Creator" and/or "divine".
     
  6. jimnyc
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    jimnyc ...

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    :laugh:

    I love it when she gets feisty! And she's 100% correct here!
     
  7. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    This is not comedy central. Are you telling me that you are not familiar with the "separation of church and state" premise upon which this country is founded and upon which we still stand today? Given the beliefs of a few of our founding fathers we'd all be quakers. A few more and we'd all be atheists. Are you familiar at all with those most important individual's beliefs and writings? I certainly don't intend to go back to History and American Politics 101 with you.
     
  8. jimnyc
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    jimnyc ...

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    Bzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong!

    Clipped for your reading pleasure!

    By Sue Ella Deadwyler

    David Barton authored a book we all need to read and keep as a reference. The title is Original Intent: The Courts, the Constitution, & Religion, first published in 1996. By 2002 it was in the second printing of the third edition. As the title indicates, it reveals the original intent of the U.S. Constitution and emphasizes that the Founding Fathers never intended for Christianity to be purged from public, political or private life. In fact, they explicitly warned that the form of government outlined in the Constitution could be maintained only in a society based on moral absolutes of the Scriptures.

    The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." That's as clear as a bell. It simply prohibits Congress from intruding into our public or private religious freedom. It does not allow for its current application and misinterpretation that Christian expression and practice should be banished from the public.

    The false notion of a "wall of separation of church and state" has been force-fed the public so long, that it's been accepted as truth. If this were Russia, it would be the truth, because that concept was in the constitution of the U.S.S.R. But, the United States has no constitutional prohibition against religious expression. However, since 1947, courts have misinterpreted the First Amendment and consistently pushed Christianity out of the public forum. Religious freedom had been legal for 150 years until the 1947 Emerson v. Board of Education Court decision stated, "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable." That wrong interpretation 56 years ago was the granddaddy of future court decisions that, until this day, continue the attack on Christianity, especially in schools and the work place.
     
  9. jimnyc
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    jimnyc ...

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    It's not? I was starting to think so reading some of your posts! :laugh:
     
  10. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Then the confusion between governments and religions continue to plague us with wars, economically and politically? Not to mention with real blood and real lives. The separation is real and for good cause. Are you protecting America or your religion? They are quite different, you know?
     

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