The plan going forward.

[rtwngAvngr]

Trade leads to economic growth for both nations while simultaneously curtailing dictatorial political powers and ensuring global stabilty. Nations who make money off of one another don't go to war. Just look at history for the truth. Compare Cuba and North Korea to Western Europe, China, or, until oil distorted the situation, Russia.

I know the talking points. It's bullshit. How are dictatorial powers being curtailed? That's a lie.

 

[dilloduck]

It's not giving up anything. IN the long term it's guaranteeing freedom in the world.

and plus:

THE MAN WHO THINKS HE CAN
by Waler D. Wintle

IF YOU THINK YOU ARE BEATEN, YOU ARE
IF YOU THINK YOU DARE NOT, YOU DON’T
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WIN BUT YOU THINK
YOU CAN’T
IT’S ALMOST A CINCH YOU WON’T
IF YOU THINK YOU’LL LOSE ,YOU’RE LOST
FOR OUT IN THE WORLD WE FIND,
SUCCESS BEGINS WITH A FELLOW’S WILL,
ITS ALL IN THE STATE OF MIND
IF YOU THINK YOUR OUTCLASSED, YOU ARE
YOU’VE GOT TO THINK HIGH TO RISE
YOU’VE GOT TO BE SURE OF YOURSELF
BEFORE YOU CAN EVER WIN A PRIZE.

LIFE’S BATTLES DON’T ALWAYS GO TO THE
STRONGER OR THE FASTER MAN,
BUT SOONER OR LATER, THE MAN WHO WINS
IS THE MAN WHO THINKS HE CAN.

In other words--yes it will require what appears to be sacrificing lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms and will take courage.

 

[theHawk]

I like your plan. It's admirable and well intentioned. The only accomplishment of your plan if we were to follow through would be the impoverishment of billions and the expansion of totalitarianism and anti-Americanism, but the thought is admirable.

And that isn't already happening?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What's going on now isn't helping the chinese people. We're making their oppression profitable for their captors.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In other words--yes it will require what appears to be sacrificing lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms and will take courage.

Yep. And we're americans dammit. We'll be fine if we just reject this neocon brainwash.

 

[Mr.Conley]

And that isn't already happening?

Not the first one. We are seeing increased anti-Americanism worldwide, but a global non-importation ban would result in an exponential increase globally.

 

[Mr.Conley]

What's going on now isn't helping the chinese people. We're making their oppression profitable for their captors.

China's GDP per capita has more than quadrupled in some areas. If the people aren't benefiting then how do you explain away a massive increase in home ownership and car purchases. Beijing alone add 1,000 new cars to the roads EVERY DAY.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Not the first one. We are seeing increased anti-Americanism worldwide, but a global non-importation ban would result in an exponential increase globally.

No one's saying global import ban. We're saying limit trade to notions with similar human rights concepts. Our markets are not a global entitlement for all.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Enact your ideas and it's tantamont to a global import ban. The only nations we could trade with would probably be Canada and Western Europe.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Enact your ideas and it's tantamont to a global import ban. The only nations we could trade with would probably be Canada and Western Europe.

You'd be suprised how many may change when faced with the choice.

Stick with your ideas and the whole world we be enslaved, but that's the point? Right?

It's not protectionism to conduct business only withing specified moral parameters, it's civilization.

We cannot showcase the superiority of freedom when we give tyranny a "get out of dysfunction free" card.

 

[Mr.Conley]

You'd be suprised how many may change when faced with the choice.

Stick with your ideas and the whole world we be enslaved, but that's the point? Right?

It's not protectionism to conduct business only withing specified moral parameters, it's civilization.

We cannot showcase the superiority of freedom, when we give tyranny a "get ouf of dysfunction free" card.

Really? Because thus far every single embargo enacted by the United States has not only failed, but failed miserably. Cuba, Sudan, North Korea, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, 60s and 70s China, and others all survived US embargos and ended up strengthening their regimes.

Trading with other nations, even despotic ones, helps establish the ties, and more importantly leverage that allows us to influence other nations systems of government to promote democratic, stabile government that serves the people. It worked in Taiwan, Western Europe, South Korea, and numerous Latin American countries, and is working now in China. Didn't you read in the news recently about China's decision to reduce the number of death sentences, especially for political prisoners. That would have never happened in Mao's China.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Really? Because thus far every single embargo enacted by the United States has not only failed, but failed miserably. Cuba, Sudan, North Korea, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, 60s and 70s China, and others all survived US embargos and ended up strengthening their regimes.

Trading with other nations, even despotic ones, helps establish the ties, and more importantly leverage that allows us to influence other nations systems of government to promote democratic, stabile government that serves the people. It worked in Taiwan, Western Europe, South Korea, and numerous Latin American countries, and is working now in China. Didn't you read in the news recently about China's decision to reduce the number of death sentences, especially for political prisoners. That would have never happened in Mao's China.

Embargoing s. africa made them stop apartheid.


We have no leverage when they get everything they want staying exactly as they are.

Your assertions are false and intellectually barren. I don't want ties with tyrants, we should just kill them. A global unified market is not worth sacrificing standards of humanity.

Wow. less death sentences. Yeah. They keep them to work them to near death.

 

[Mr.Conley]

I'll reply later. Morgan Stanley will never bring me into the New World Order if I don't finish this paper.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'll reply later. Morgan Stanley will never bring me into the New World Order if I don't finish this paper.

Don't bother if it's the same tired ignorant arguments.

 

[glockmail]

....
[1] The perpetuation of our american Ideals requires keeping immoral practices out of the accepted mode of conduct. ....
[2] China especially should be embargoed, because accepting that slave labor is a legitimate practice in international trade, will only reduce the world to slavery in an attempt to compete with the profit margins which can be achieved when dehumanization becomes a legitimate cost cutting measure.

....

1. First we'll have to start with our own house and boycott Hollywood. Otherwise we'd be hypocrits.
2. Chinese workes are happy about the opportunity from the limited capitalism that they enjoy. If we shut them down the commies in power will win. If we keep up the trade the capitalists will eventually win, and China will be a stronger ally.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

1. First we'll have to start with our own house and boycott Hollywood. Otherwise we'd be hypocrits.
2. Chinese workes are happy about the opportunity from the limited capitalism that they enjoy. If we shut them down the commies in power will win. If we keep up the trade the capitalists will eventually win, and China will be a stronger ally.

1. nothing hollywood does compares to slave labor and human rights abuse.
2.The totalitarian fascists are winning as it is(they're not really communist anymore). They have made no human rights improvements.

Maybe you're just unaware of the situation in china.

laogai

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Embargoing s. africa made them stop apartheid.

Do you have any other example other than South Africa?

 

[glockmail]

1. nothing hollywood does compares to slave labor and human rights abuse.
2.The totalitarian fascists are winning as it is(they're not really communist anymore). They have made no human rights improvements.

Maybe you're just unaware of the situation in china.

laogai

1. So Hollywood gets a pass from you. What a surprise. I see a liberal agenda.
2. I have friends living there for three years now, plus another who does a lot of business there. I'm aware that the Chinese have more freedom now with capitalism than they ever had, and the free market will eventually cause the overthrow of the commies.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

1. So Hollywood gets a pass from you. What a surprise. I see a liberal agenda.
2. I have friends living there for three years now, plus another who does a lot of business there. I'm aware that the Chinese have more freedom now with capitalism than they ever had, and the free market will eventually cause the overthrow of the commies.

I repeat: Nothing hollywood does is comparable to what china does; in fact, that 's a really retarded point.

Like what? What new freedoms do they have?

How will capitalism cause the overthrow of the commies (totalitarians) when they are profitting from it?

 

[glockmail]

I repeat: Nothing hollywood does is comparable to what china does; in fact, that 's a really retarded point.

Like what? What new freedoms do they have?

How will capitalism cause the overthrow of the commies (totalitarians) when they are profitting from it?

Except we have no control over China, and to try to pretend that we do will only create animosity from them that we cannot afford, and will merely postpone the collapse of the commies.

They have the freedom to communicate with the rest of the world, for one.

Capitalism will continue to exert pressure on the commies to give up control of markets and business. The coolpse of the commie system is inevitable.