The Philosophy Of Lying. What The Results Are.

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by deskeptify, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. sartre play
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    sartre play Gold Member

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    I see you include your self in the persons who are brain washed, as you only quote" liberal college" as brain washing sites. like un liberal colleges don't teach a one sided view
     
  2. SeaGal
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    SeaGal Gold Member

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    Both! I like the way you think.

    Truth is not always the opposite of a lie - truth is often a matter of perception...such as in the story of the blind men and the elephant. Each man 'sees' a portion of the elephant and describes it as such. All are telling the 'truth' but unknowingly none can see the entire elephant, thus all are incorrect in their perception of the whole. (as opposed to lying).
     
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  3. task0778
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    task0778 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I dunno SG, I wouldn't say that truth is a matter of perception. It's a matter or proof, evidence, and logic. All those blind men touching an elephant may be telling their version of what they think is the truth, but if the reality is that they're wrong then what they are saying is not the truth but their idea or theory of what the actual truth is. IOW, an idea, a theory, a proposal. Their proof or evidence that supports their conclusion is insufficient, and therefore should not be accepted as the truth. They didn't lie, they were merely mistaken.

    There's a difference between a lie and a mistake. Truth is the opposite of both.
     
  4. sartre play
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    sartre play Gold Member

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    Yes brain washing as seen here in your post (and it graduates from our liberal colleges) as if every kind of college including church based, or specialized did not work towards giving the classes needed for a degree, plus the additional choices that are the reason you chose that college.
     
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  5. SeaGal
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    SeaGal Gold Member

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    You're right of course. It is not my intent to diminish the value of truth - just dipping a toe in metaphysical waters...in which neither of the statements of Al or his creator can be proven false or mistaken.

    Yes, there are universally held truths supported by fact, evidence, reality. (2+2=4) or individually ( I ate oatmeal for breakfast at 7:30 am on Tuesday the 29th of August) And at times universally held truths can be altered by the input of new information...which in hindsight shows the former truth to be incorrect, not a lie. In my opinion lying is a knowing deliberate act to replace the truth.

    In the case of the blind men - they believed they had seen with their hands all the evidence necessary to declare what an elephant looked like. Because we can see the entire elephant we know that their truth is only part of the whole. The obvious flaw in their logic - since they were blind, not crippled - is that they did not have the intellectual curiosity to follow the particular portion of the elephant they were examining until there was no more elephant to discover.

    Another example - the air temperature is 72 degrees. One says that's warm, another says it's cool. Who's right, who's wrong, who's mistaken, who's lying, who's telling the truth?

    I think that much of what we declare true is opinion or perception based...so maybe the claim of 'true' is overused. The OP indicated that there was a great truth to which he was privy but could not, through no fault of his own, share with us. That invites speculation on the concept of 'truth'. :)
     
  6. task0778
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    task0778 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I see the same thing around the USMB about what is labeled as fact but actually is an opinion. A fact is a proven truth, a verifiable conclusion that given the stated conditions will always be true. Which rarely applies to human behavior especially in areas such as politics and religion. Someone may declare something to be a fact or to be true but quite often it is neither. These days science is constantly coming up with new data that calls into question so many theories that previously were believed by general consensus to be true; which tells me we need to be a little more circumspect about declaring something to be true in the 1st place if insufficient trustworthy data exists to verify it. Instead, label it for what it is: a theory. A theory that is accepted by many knowledgable people as likely to be true, but still a theory.
     
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