The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

[louie888]

Can anyone address this simple, salient point?

SECOND... the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

Is there anything from traditional Judaism, from our rabbis and sages for 1000s of years that refute the above point (prior to zionism)?

 

[Hollie]

Can anyone address this simple, salient point?

SECOND... the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

Is there anything from traditional Judaism, from our rabbis and sages for 1000s of years that refute the above point (prior to zionism)?

Those aren't salient points. Just more cutting and pasting with no context.

 

[Challenger]

Maimonides, one of the most prolific and influential Torah scholars, said that, "Those (Jews) who separate themselves from the (Jewish) community ... do not have a share in the World to Come" (The Afterlife). According to Maimonides, a person may be placed in this category even though he has not transgressed any sins. By abandoning the state of Israel and betraying the memory of the victims of the Holocaust, this group has indeed separated itself from the rest of the nation of Israel.

More made up "history" co-opting Moses ben Maimon into the Zionist narrative. Moses ben Maimon wasn't refering to "the state of Israel" as it wasn't around in the 12th century, he was pontificating about how bad life would be for those who abandoned the religion of Judaism.

 

[louie888]

Please compare the words and beliefs of traditional Judaism to what the zionists have turned it into as shown here:

Now, maybe you can see how they have bastardized our religion for their own purpose.

 

[louie888]

From its' inception, many rabbis warned of the potential dangers of Zionism and openly declared that all Jews loyal to G-d should stay away from it like one would from fire. They made their opinions clear to their congregants and to the general public. Their message was that Zionism is a chauvinistic racist phenomenon which has absolutely naught to do with Judaism. They publicly expressed that Zionism would definitely be detrimental to the well being of Jews and Gentiles and that its effects on the Jewish religion would be nothing other than destructive. Further, it would taint the reputation of Jewry as a whole and would cause utter confusion in the Jewish and non-Jewish communities. Judaism is a religion. Judaism is not a race or a nationality. That was and still remains the consensus amongst the rabbis.


We were given the Holy Land by G-d in order to be able to study and practice the Torah without disturbance and to attain levels of holiness difficult to attain outside of the Holy Land. We abused the privilege and we were expelled. That is exactly what all Jews say in their prayers on every Jewish festival, "Umipnay chatoenu golinu mayartsaynu" – "Because of our sins we were expelled from our land".

--Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann