CDZ The Orlando Mass Shooting and what can we learn from it?

[2aguy]

All well and good....but Orlando was radical Islam. Nothing more and nothing less. It's past time to address the problem

How would you address it?

Would you address Christian homophobic extremism in the same way?

LOL @ Christian Homophobic extremism. You goofs can't even recognize why Orlando happened and now two of you deflect to "Christians". Get honest with yourselves, recognize the real problem and perhaps you will be taken serious.

As for what to do about Islamic terrorism? This morning the USA should have started airstrikes at any known ISIS location....and continue until they are dead dead dead

You can't destroy an idea. This is unbelievably reckless.

You can destroy those that perpetuate the idea....they desire death and paradise? Give it to them....in spades. I'm tired of the coddling of these animals. Annihilate them, annihilate those that support them, annihilate those that harbor them. When another steps up to take their place? Annihilate them

Who do you wish to annihilate...Muslim's?....all 1.6 billion?

How about we just kill the muslims who murder innocent men, women and children...we could work on that..right?

 

[2aguy]

I don't believe in the draft....they will volunteer or not...and I will send in the military no matter who is in it if it is required.....

I would not send anyone back over to the middle east because we can't trust democrats to not be a 5th column undermining our efforts the way they have with our current combat operations.

Let me explain it like this you will never win a war in that region no matter the political party leading the fight because those you are fighting were born to die for what they believe in...

Protect our borders and leave the Russian and Persians to fight the savages over there...

I just said i wouldn't send our troops back over.......but if it came to needing to fight I would send troops anyewhere in the world to do it.....even with family in the military....if they volunteered and made that choice...

I wouldn't.

I would bomb the area, send in special forces to eliminate the targets but no massive force invasion.

Special Forces aren't U.S. soldiers....and someone's fathers and sons....?

That is my point.

You will send in full invasion force as long as the GOP is doing the invading but if I mention I would not do that and would do what Reagan did you want to ask if that is someone son, and father and being the typical right winger you are you left off mother and daughter because women never come to your mind in combat.

You love war and believe you can win a war in Afghanistan and Iraq but tell me how well did that work for the Russians in Afghanistan or the British or French in the Middle East?

Wrong ....I just posted I wouldn't not send troops over there...and no...women do not belong in combat roles.

I do not love war....but you guys keep allowing the bad guys to get strong and attack everyone....

 

[Dogmaphobe]

A hateful ideology killed those folks in Orlando. The same ideology killed folks in Paris, California, and countless other places around the World.

To suggest any link between a hateful religious ideology and attacks by those who are mentally deranged is a false analogy.

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Little steps first, Carla.

Learning what Islamists are all about might be a good first step.

After that, you could try opposing their ideology while standing up for liberalism.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Nazis were not atheists, nor pagans. They created a religious cult using christianity.

Nazis were the arch enemy of the socialists on the basis of socialists being atheists.
And you claim nazis were atheists themselves. Funny, and pure fantasy...

Anti-secular ideologies, like nazism, created the destruction of the society it did influence in, as expected.
Any society disregarding secularism, and go on the route of religious ideologies, will end up the same.

We can see similar tendencies in some mid eastern societies, and that is the reason we call em "islamonazis".
Because islamism is a religious ideology, just like nazism.

Wrong ..they were pagans and atheists...they hated Christianity....and exploited the atrophied christianity of the rest of the Germans....

Any society that ignores the judeo/christian religion will end up like the atheist socialists and the pagans...like the Japanese...slaughtering millions of people.....

no...they call islamonazis that because they want the state to control every aspect of life., just like the nazis did.........not because nazism was religious.....

Your claims go as far as your credibility goes...
Meaning, no where...


“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
-Adolf Hitler-

Here, get some popcorn....learn something...they were pagans and atheists....

And where does it say they were atheists, in this video you posted as your source?

Do you know what atheism means?

I can clearly see you don't.
In fact, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Here you go dufus....

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anti-Christian views are evidenced in the Goebbels Diaries, the memoirs of Albert Speer,[21] and transcripts of Hitler's private conversations recorded by Martin Bormann in Hitler's Table Talk. Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity".[22]

---------
Until the mid 1930s, Hitler's speeches sometimes advocated "Positive Christianity"[23] (a movement which sought to "Nazify" Christianity[24]). Given his hostility to Christianity, Rees wrote, "the most persuasive explanation of these statements is that Hitler, as a politician, simply recognised the practical reality of the world he inhabited... Had Hitler distanced himself or his movement too much from Christianity, it is all but impossible to see how he could ever have been successful in a free election".

Be careful there, 2.

Next thing you know you will be accused of hating all Germans and get called a Teutoniphobe.

 

[Carla_Danger]

A hateful ideology killed those folks in Orlando. The same ideology killed folks in Paris, California, and countless other places around the World.

To suggest any link between a hateful religious ideology and attacks by those who are mentally deranged is a false analogy.

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Little steps first, Carla.

Learning what Islamists are all about might be a good first step.

After that, you could try opposing their ideology while standing up for liberalism.

I oppose any kind of ideology that includes murdering innocent people...always have. Do you have any other false assumptions about me you'd like to share?

 

[Carla_Danger]

How would you address it?

Would you address Christian homophobic extremism in the same way?

LOL @ Christian Homophobic extremism. You goofs can't even recognize why Orlando happened and now two of you deflect to "Christians". Get honest with yourselves, recognize the real problem and perhaps you will be taken serious.

As for what to do about Islamic terrorism? This morning the USA should have started airstrikes at any known ISIS location....and continue until they are dead dead dead

You can't destroy an idea. This is unbelievably reckless.

You can destroy those that perpetuate the idea....they desire death and paradise? Give it to them....in spades. I'm tired of the coddling of these animals. Annihilate them, annihilate those that support them, annihilate those that harbor them. When another steps up to take their place? Annihilate them

Who do you wish to annihilate...Muslim's?....all 1.6 billion?

How about we just kill the muslims who murder innocent men, women and children...we could work on that..right?

I'm not sure I trust you to determine which Muslim's are murderers, especially after that one nut job got confused and shot up the Sikh temple in Wisconsin.

 

[2aguy]

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Little steps first, Carla.

Learning what Islamists are all about might be a good first step.

After that, you could try opposing their ideology while standing up for liberalism.

I oppose any kind of ideology that includes murdering innocent people...always have. Do you have any other false assumptions about me you'd like to share?

That you are secretly a member of the Avengers?

 

[WelfareQueen]

A hateful ideology killed those folks in Orlando. The same ideology killed folks in Paris, California, and countless other places around the World.

To suggest any link between a hateful religious ideology and attacks by those who are mentally deranged is a false analogy.

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Kill those that operationalize that hateful ideology.

 

[alpine]

Nazis were not atheists, nor pagans. They created a religious cult using christianity.

Nazis were the arch enemy of the socialists on the basis of socialists being atheists.
And you claim nazis were atheists themselves. Funny, and pure fantasy...

Anti-secular ideologies, like nazism, created the destruction of the society it did influence in, as expected.
Any society disregarding secularism, and go on the route of religious ideologies, will end up the same.

We can see similar tendencies in some mid eastern societies, and that is the reason we call em "islamonazis".
Because islamism is a religious ideology, just like nazism.

Wrong ..they were pagans and atheists...they hated Christianity....and exploited the atrophied christianity of the rest of the Germans....

Any society that ignores the judeo/christian religion will end up like the atheist socialists and the pagans...like the Japanese...slaughtering millions of people.....

no...they call islamonazis that because they want the state to control every aspect of life., just like the nazis did.........not because nazism was religious.....

Your claims go as far as your credibility goes...
Meaning, no where...


“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
-Adolf Hitler-

Here, get some popcorn....learn something...they were pagans and atheists....

And where does it say they were atheists, in this video you posted as your source?

Do you know what atheism means?

I can clearly see you don't.
In fact, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Some were pagans and some were atheists.....if you read my posts you would see I said they were each, depending in the nazi.....the S.S. had a Blood and Soil cult going on.......hitler hated christians.....

moron...

And some were muslims and some were jews too i bet...
Wanna throw in some more?

It is funny how you agree they are a cult now, which is what I said in my first message.
So you are learning on the way.


Ignorance... pure ignorance...

moron...

 

[Carla_Danger]

A hateful ideology killed those folks in Orlando. The same ideology killed folks in Paris, California, and countless other places around the World.

To suggest any link between a hateful religious ideology and attacks by those who are mentally deranged is a false analogy.

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Kill those that operationalize that hateful ideology.

We're already doing that.

 

[jasonnfree]

There is a lot of grief, anger, hate, and sorrow at what happened - but like with other similar events, can this sort of thing be prevented - are there solutions or are we stuck on blame? This horrific attack raises questions around terrorism, religion, homophobia, gun violence and mental health and I think they all need to be examined.

Homophobia:

Hatred of homosexuals. This is something Islam has in common with it's relatives, Christianity and Judaism. Arguments are made that Christianity doesn't believe in killing gays and largely - because many Christians live in law abiding SECULAR societies, where human rights are enshrined - they don't. Islam as a religion has a ways to go in certain parts of the world, when it comes to human rights. But this killer was AMERICAN. Born and raised in the US. His parents were immigrants, but was he was not. Was his motivation any different than that of Eric Rudolph who was conficted of a series of anti-abortion and anti-gay bombings which killed two people and injured over 120 others. Why is it, that this event produces a "uniting" of outrage and anger, even from those who hate gays while Eric Rudolph's actions did not. Why did it take this event, for the anti-gay factions to suddenly decide that killing gays is horrific and requires a response greater than a namby pamby denunciation that was given for Rudolph? Both killers were American citizens who hated gays and chose to act on it violently. It's great to see the public uniting behind this, but why did it take this one event when violence against gays, even murder is nothing new here.


Lone Wolf Attacks and the Problem with Prediction:

According to the FBI, lone wolf attacks are almost impossible to predict and prevent. Indications so far seem to be that this fellow is a lone wolf with no known ties to terrorist groups (alghough he pledged to ISIS right before the shooting, his actions were on his own). I think it's a good idea to look at this event in context of other lone wolf mass shootings.

The 12 deadliest Mass Shootings: A List Of The Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History - by number killed.

1. Pulse Orlando nightclub in Orlando, Fla. (June 12, 2016)

2. Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va. (April 16, 2007)

3. Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. (Dec. 14, 2012)

4. Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas (Oct. 16, 1991)

6. University of Texas Tower in Austin, Texas (Aug. 1, 1966)

7. Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo. (April 20, 1999)

8. Edmond Post Office in Edmond, Okla. (Aug. 20, 1986)

9. Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, Calif. (Dec. 2, 2015)

10. American Civic Association, Binghamton, N.Y. (April 3, 2009)

11. Fort Hood in Texas (Nov. 5, 2009)

12. Washington Navy Yard in Washington, D.C. (Sept. 16, 2013)

All of these have one thing in common - they are "lone wolf" attacks, 3 of them were by Muslims who were American citizens (with the exception of one) the rest by non-Muslim American citizens.

Mental Illness:

Clearly some of these attacks were the product of mental illness (Sandy Hook, VA Tech, for example); others seem to have been influenced somewhat by possible mental illness. Mateen's wife, and at least one co-worker expressed concerns in that regard and called him unstable, violent, etc. There are close ties between mental illness and religiousity. Religion can, in unstable people, give them a rationale for violence. Yet, there is no evidence for mental illness (that I've found) for the San Diego shooters, it appears they were radicalized, and acted on it.

Questions - if Mateen hadn't been radicialized by Islam, would he have found some other reason to commit these murders?

Gun Culture and Gun Control
The two elephants in the room: the left doesn't want to consider the issue of Islam, the right doesn't want to consider the issue of guns. Could increased gun control have prevented or limited the number of dead? Could decreased gun control have made a difference in the ability of people to respond.



It is difficult to find solutions because it's difficult to predict these events AND almost any solution will have an effect on our freedoms and rights.

• Increased gun control will have an effect on law abiding gun owners.
• Increased focus on mental health issues could have an effect on the rights and freedoms of mentally ill individuals who present no threat of violence.
• Increased focus on religion could have an effect on the religious freedom and rights of privacy.
• Increased surviellance of any sort, on innocent people would have wide ranging effects.
• Addressing homophobia - American's have experienced a huge change in attitudes towards homosexuals over the past decades, and that trend towards greater acceptance and tolerant is evident in all American religious communities, including Muslims. Despite that, there is still considerable friction surrounding addressing tolerance in schools and accusations of a "gay agenda". Can more be done in this area?

Eric Rudolph? You have to go back twenty years to try to prove that non muslim terrorists are as bad as this latest killer. Muslims only make up one percent of our population, so the amount of their terrorist attacks, and the numbers of people they've killed is way out there. And that's without even factoring in the attacks on the trade towers both times in 2001 and 1996. Only one percent of our country is muslim. If can cause this amount of death and destruction, then it would be wise to do what Trump says and have a moratorium on immigration of muslims. National security should be of the utmost importance now, and not the bleeding heart desire of trying to make America more diverse at any cost, which in itself is moronic.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Little steps first, Carla.

Learning what Islamists are all about might be a good first step.

After that, you could try opposing their ideology while standing up for liberalism.

I oppose any kind of ideology that includes murdering innocent people...always have. Do you have any other false assumptions about me you'd like to share?

Since your response had nothing to do with what I suggested, I wouldn't say I am indulging in any assumptions here, needless to say, false ones.

If you are resistant to the notion of learning about Islamism, you are resistant to learning about Islamism. It sure isn't an assumption on my part that you do not wish to know.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

How about we just kill the muslims who murder innocent men, women and children...we could work on that..right?

I'm afraid I'm required to issue you a demerit for such politically incorrect speech, there, 2.

Those be "freedom fighters" in the vernacular of the authoritarian left. .

 

[WelfareQueen]

Yep. Of course it's false.

That's why people do it as their very intent is this false comparison, and they do so in order to distract away from the ideology they are trying to defend. This is not the product of an honest inquiry into the situation, but an intentionally false equivalency aimed at obfuscating, instead.

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Kill those that operationalize that hateful ideology.

We're already doing that.

Obviously in an extremely ineffective manner. Remember Obama said a few days before the Paris attack that ISIS was "contained." Before that ISIS was the JV team.

We need real leadership in this area and a President who can actually identify who the enemy is and take aggressive steps to eliminate the enemy now.

 

[Carla_Danger]

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Little steps first, Carla.

Learning what Islamists are all about might be a good first step.

After that, you could try opposing their ideology while standing up for liberalism.

I oppose any kind of ideology that includes murdering innocent people...always have. Do you have any other false assumptions about me you'd like to share?

Since your response had nothing to do with what I suggested, I wouldn't say I am indulging in any assumptions here, needless to say, false ones.

If you are resistant to the notion of learning about Islamism, you are resistant to learning about Islamism. It sure isn't an assumption on my part that you do not wish to know.

And there's another assumption that I don't understand radical Islamism. That's 2 strikes.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So what do you suggest be done in the US to combat this ideology - the religion of Islam?

What can be done, Coyote? You must destroy radical Islam the same as any other nihilistic death cult like Nazism. It is killed or be killed. What is so difficult to understand? How many people around the World have to be killed before the West takes the threat seriously?

How do you go about destroying radical Islam?

Kill those that operationalize that hateful ideology.

We're already doing that.

Obviously in an extremely ineffective manner. Remember Obama said a few days before the Paris attack that ISIS was "contained." Before that ISIS was the JV team.

We need real leadership in this area and a President who can actually identify who the enemy is and take aggressive steps to eliminate the enemy now.

But Obama warned us all that we shouldn't jump to conclusions as to the motivation of the mass murderer!

After all -- all he did was call 911 pledging his support for ISIS and saying he was motivated by Islam!!