The Original Sin of Israel

[georgephillip]

Possibly because "they" and their ancestors lived in "Israel" long before the Russians and Poles who are currently stealing "their" land did?

Well, no. You're severely uneducated.

Jews lived in Judea, from which "Jewish" is derived, 2000 years before Muslim intruders invaded from Arabia. The land was sovereign Jewish land 4000 years ago and the land is sovereign Jewish land today under international law.

When did the Poles get their kosher tickets punched?

Your ancient history isn't confusing anyone, bigot.

See if you can keep this discussion rooted in the 20th and 21st Centuries or tell some more racist jokes.

It's all you got.

 

[Marc39]

Possibly because "they" and their ancestors lived in "Israel" long before the Russians and Poles who are currently stealing "their" land did?

Well, no. You're severely uneducated.

Jews lived in Judea, from which "Jewish" is derived, 2000 years before Muslim intruders invaded from Arabia. The land was sovereign Jewish land 4000 years ago and the land is sovereign Jewish land today under international law.

When did the Poles get their kosher tickets punched?

Your ancient history isn't confusing anyone, bigot.

See if you can keep this discussion rooted in the 20th and 21st Centuries or tell some more racist jokes.

It's all you got.

The League of Nations...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

 

[georgephillip]

Well, no. You're severely uneducated.

Jews lived in Judea, from which "Jewish" is derived, 2000 years before Muslim intruders invaded from Arabia. The land was sovereign Jewish land 4000 years ago and the land is sovereign Jewish land today under international law.

When did the Poles get their kosher tickets punched?

Your ancient history isn't confusing anyone, bigot.

See if you can keep this discussion rooted in the 20th and 21st Centuries or tell some more racist jokes.

It's all you got.

The League of Nations...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

Run out of Polish jokes?

Look in the closest mirror.

Bigot.

 

[Barb]

Well, I'm glad we're all clear on that.

When Avnery contrasts "Jewish State" with "Hebrew State" what distinction is he making?

Is there a distinction between nation and state?

Uri Avnery believes he is a descendant of the 'wandering Jews' of the bible. He is also what is considered a self hating Jew. He uses that term in his own desire to see the dissolution of Israel.

Hebrew is a language. A Hebrew state, therefore, by definition is a state where Hebrew is the main distinction of the state, not the race.

That's nonsense to my thinking. A state whose language is Hebrew and whose official holidays are Jewish? But has no official race? Surrounded by Arabians who want to dissolve the country. Fighting, high birth rates, silent sedition, etc. are many methods in which the dissolution can occur and surprise, Uri is at the forefront.

You can consider Africa a black continent. You can consider the Arabian Peninsula an Arabian Peninsula and you can consider Iran an Islamic State.

So, by the very definitions of the area, I would think that it is safe to conclude A Jewish state is the ethnicity of the state.

So, in summation. Hebrew state is an attempt to seek the Jews racial dissolution. Jewish state is a protection of the Jewish identity of the culture and race of people who have been in that area lo these thousands of years.

The Arabs want to go back to Pre forty eight.

Fine. If they can do that, let's go back a few more thousands of years, shall we?

3 questions:
If nation is to be decided by race, what would the US be?
Do you really believe that the land Israel occupies, ALL of it, was deeded by God?
Say I burned down your house. If my house, for whatever reason, is unavailable or inhabitable, and the neighborhood kinda sucks, is it totally unreasonable to take over some completely unrelated person's house, say your great, great, great, hell, grand, great and all the greats and grand's before house and displace them?


Damned good work, if you can get it...almost as profitable as Manifest Destiny.

 

[georgephillip]

Well, I'm glad we're all clear on that.

When Avnery contrasts "Jewish State" with "Hebrew State" what distinction is he making?

Is there a distinction between nation and state?

Uri Avnery believes he is a descendant of the 'wandering Jews' of the bible. He is also what is considered a self hating Jew. He uses that term in his own desire to see the dissolution of Israel.

Hebrew is a language. A Hebrew state, therefore, by definition is a state where Hebrew is the main distinction of the state, not the race.

That's nonsense to my thinking. A state whose language is Hebrew and whose official holidays are Jewish? But has no official race? Surrounded by Arabians who want to dissolve the country. Fighting, high birth rates, silent sedition, etc. are many methods in which the dissolution can occur and surprise, Uri is at the forefront.

You can consider Africa a black continent. You can consider the Arabian Peninsula an Arabian Peninsula and you can consider Iran an Islamic State.

So, by the very definitions of the area, I would think that it is safe to conclude A Jewish state is the ethnicity of the state.

So, in summation. Hebrew state is an attempt to seek the Jews racial dissolution. Jewish state is a protection of the Jewish identity of the culture and race of people who have been in that area lo these thousands of years.

The Arabs want to go back to Pre forty eight.

Fine. If they can do that, let's go back a few more thousands of years, shall we?

3 questions:
If nation is to be decided by race, what would the US be?
Do you really believe that the land Israel occupies, ALL of it, was deeded by God?
Say I burned down your house. If my house, for whatever reason, is unavailable or inhabitable, and the neighborhood kinda sucks, is it totally unreasonable to take over some completely unrelated person's house, say your great, great, great, hell, grand, great and all the greats and grand's before house and displace them?


Damned good work, if you can get it...almost as profitable as Manifest Destiny.

"WAR is a racket.

"It always has been.

"It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.

"It is the only one international in scope.

"It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

"A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people.

"Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many.

"Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

Where's Smedley when we really need him?

 

[Marc39]

Uri Avnery believes he is a descendant of the 'wandering Jews' of the bible. He is also what is considered a self hating Jew. He uses that term in his own desire to see the dissolution of Israel.

Hebrew is a language. A Hebrew state, therefore, by definition is a state where Hebrew is the main distinction of the state, not the race.

That's nonsense to my thinking. A state whose language is Hebrew and whose official holidays are Jewish? But has no official race? Surrounded by Arabians who want to dissolve the country. Fighting, high birth rates, silent sedition, etc. are many methods in which the dissolution can occur and surprise, Uri is at the forefront.

You can consider Africa a black continent. You can consider the Arabian Peninsula an Arabian Peninsula and you can consider Iran an Islamic State.

So, by the very definitions of the area, I would think that it is safe to conclude A Jewish state is the ethnicity of the state.

So, in summation. Hebrew state is an attempt to seek the Jews racial dissolution. Jewish state is a protection of the Jewish identity of the culture and race of people who have been in that area lo these thousands of years.

The Arabs want to go back to Pre forty eight.

Fine. If they can do that, let's go back a few more thousands of years, shall we?

3 questions:
If nation is to be decided by race, what would the US be?
Do you really believe that the land Israel occupies, ALL of it, was deeded by God?
Say I burned down your house. If my house, for whatever reason, is unavailable or inhabitable, and the neighborhood kinda sucks, is it totally unreasonable to take over some completely unrelated person's house, say your great, great, great, hell, grand, great and all the greats and grand's before house and displace them?


Damned good work, if you can get it...almost as profitable as Manifest Destiny.

"WAR is a racket.

"It always has been.

"It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.

"It is the only one international in scope.

"It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

"A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people.

"Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many.

"Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

Where's Smedley when we really need him?

Quran 9:5...

Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

 

[georgephillip]

Uri Avnery: The Original Sin...

"But David Ben-Gurion, who refused to wear a kippah even at funerals (where most atheists do wear kippahs as a gesture towards the beliefs of others) thought that it was worthwhile to get the Orthodox to join his government coalition.

"Therefore he promised them to free a few hundred Yeshiva (religious seminary) students from military duty and to pay for their studies and upkeep, so that they would not be obliged to work for a living.

"The consequences were unexpected. That little gesture has grown to monstrous proportions.

"Today one could man several army divisions with those shirkers from army duty.

"They now constitute 13% of the entire yearly crop of those liable to the draft.

"Moreover, 65% of all Orthodox male citizens do not work at all and live on the public purse.

"The situation is absurd: the state is paying for the upkeep of a large and growing population of Torah-shielded parasites, who undermine the state.

"The state pays hundreds of thousands of young religious people in order to keep them from – God forbid – working.

"It pays them generous subsidies so they can produce more and more children (from 5 to 15 per family) most of whom will also neither work nor serve in the army.

"One can calculate exactly when the economy will collapse, together with the welfare-state and the 'citizens’ army' based on conscription."

So when is that collapse due and how much will US taxpayers shell out for "Torah shielded parasites?"

 

[Marc39]

Uri Avnery: The Original Sin...

Martin Luther King, Jr...

I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.

John F. Kennedy...

Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom.

Ronald Reagan...

In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest

Bill Clinton...

American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper..

As I said on the 60th anniversary of its founding, the State of Israel appeared as a light, in a world emerging from deep darkness. Against all odds, that light has not been extinguished. It burns bright, upheld by the universal principles of all civilized nations – freedom, democracy, justice.

Alexis de Toqueville...

I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWa0CQQ9jdY&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Hamas IslamoNazis Burn Down Gaza Water Park. Allahu Fucku!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5yepuNio78[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: Arabs And Muslims Run To Israel

Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a dream: to work or live in Israel. Some even say they are prepared to pay large sums of money to obtain Israeli citizenship. Others pay a lot of money to Palestinian and Jewish traffickers who help them bypass checkpoints to enter Israel in search of work and good life. These are not self-hating Palestinians. Nor are they "pro-Israel traitors" who support the Zionist movement. Many Palestinians feel that neither Fatah nor Hamas has done enough to alleviate their suffering. Many Fatah leaders who stole billions of dollars of international donations earmarked for the Palestinians have invested their fortunes in hotels, tourist resorts and real estate firms in the West. Hamas, on the other hand, prefers to spend millions of dollars on purchasing [and smuggling] large amounts of weapons, including rockets and ammunition.

It is a disgrace for Arab and Muslim dictators, particularly those who make billions of dollars from selling oil, that their constituents have to seek work and refuge in Israel and the West. It is also a disgrace for Fatah and Hamas that thousands of Palestinians cannot find jobs or a good life in the two Palestinian states in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Arab and Islamic regimes are spending billions of dollars on building new mosques and madrasas while nearly half of their people are illiterate and live under the poverty line. University graduates in these countries are forced to search for work in the West because of poor working conditions and lack of opportunities.

The absence of good government, transparency, accountability and democracy in these countries is driving Arabs and Muslims to seek work and a better life not only in North America and Europe, but even in places like Israel. In many ways, these Palestinians are not different from the African immigrants who try to infiltrate Israel every day through Egypt. The immigrants come from Sudan, Ethiopia, Eretria, Nigeria and other African countries.

Like the Palestinians, the Africans are prepared to pay a lot of money to get into Israel. Egyptian traffickers charge up to $1,000 for each immigrant. But for the African immigrants, the journey is also a very dangerous one. In the past three years, Egyptian border guards have shot and killed dozens of African men and women who tried to cross the border into Israel. While the Egyptians are killing the African immigrants, Israel is providing the lucky ones who manage to cross the border with jobs, as well as medical and social services. True, Israel is not 100% perfect. But an African Muslim or Christian still prefers Israel to countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. As a "refugee" from Darfour, Sudan, who now lives in Tel Aviv, explained: "I feel more secure in the Jewish state than in Sudan or any Arab or Islamic country."

For many Palestinians, it is easier to find a job in Israel and Canada than in any Arab or Islamic country, most of which impose strict travel and work restrictions on them. Palestinians cannot enter most Arab and Islamic countries without a visa. One can understand why a Palestinian needs a visa to enter the US or any European country Many Palestinians from the West Bank who visit Arab countries often find themselves thrown into detention centers for weeks, months and years without trial. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Palestinians are believed to be languishing in prisons throughout the Arab world, especially in Syria and Egypt.

The Iconoclast - New English Review

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsTIvwBA5ao&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Uri Avnery: The Original Sin...

Former Prime Minister of Spain Jose Maria Aznar: Democratic and Free Israel.

We cannot forget that Israel is the West’s best ally in a turbulent region. The state of Israel was created by a decision of the UN. Its legitimacy, therefore, should not be in question. Israel is a nation with deeply rooted democratic institutions. It is a dynamic and open society that has repeatedly excelled in culture, science and technology. Owing to its roots, history, and values, Israel is a fully fledged Western nation. Indeed, it is a normal Western nation, but one confronted by abnormal circumstances. What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israel’s legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israel’s vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude.

Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined. The real threats to regional stability, however, are to be found in the rise of a radical Islamism which sees Israel’s destruction as the fulfillment of its religious destiny and, simultaneously in the case of Iran, as an expression of its ambitions for regional hegemony. Both phenomena are threats that affect not only Israel, but also the wider West and the world at large.
Israel is our first line of defense in a turbulent region that is constantly at risk of descending into chaos; a region vital to our energy security owing to our overdependence on Middle Eastern oil; a region that forms the front line in the fight against extremism. If Israel goes down, we all go down. To defend Israel’s right to exist in peace, within secure borders, requires a degree of moral and strategic clarity that too often seems to have disappeared in Europe. The United States shows worrying signs of heading in the same direction.

The West is going through a period of confusion over the shape of the world’s future. To a great extent, this confusion is caused by a kind of masochistic self-doubt over our own identity; by the rule of political correctness; by a multiculturalism that forces us to our knees before others; and by a secularism which, irony of ironies, blinds us even when we are confronted by jihadis promoting the most fanatical incarnation of their faith. To abandon Israel to its fate, at this moment of all moments, would merely serve to illustrate how far we have sunk and how inexorable our decline now appears.

This cannot be allowed to happen. Motivated by the need to rebuild our own Western values, expressing deep concern about the wave of aggression against Israel, and mindful that Israel’s strength is our strength and Israel’s weakness is our weakness, I have decided to promote a new Friends of Israel initiative with the help of some prominent people, including David Trimble, Andrew Roberts, John Bolton, Alejandro Toledo (the former President of Peru), Marcello Pera (philosopher and former President of the Italian Senate), Fiamma Nirenstein (the Italian author and politician), the financier Robert Agostinelli and the Catholic intellectual George Weigel. What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israel’s legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israel’s vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude. Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined.

Republicans Abroad

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrKDvL5pLfI&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

IslamoFascist Persecution Of Christians In Gaza
ex-Muslim Reverend Majed el Shafie, One Free World Intl...

Hamas was going to the graveyards of the Christians, digging up the dead body of the Christians, throwing them and burning them and saying 'you cannot bury your dead bodies here because its our land, it's a holy land.

Christian families are being forced to cooperate with Hamas or their children or their wives will get raped or will get persecuted.

The Christians in the Palestinian Authority areas [are] facing persecutions. Their homes, their churches they get attacked almost every day

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP9BazI-_js[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

In memory of Marc the Banned Racist Bitch...

Professor Juan Cole say "hi", Bitch:

"If push comes to shove, ObamObama Should Let the UN apply Economic Sanctions to Israel | Informed Commenta should let the UNSC give Palestine a formal seat as a nation-state at the UN. Once Palestine is a recognized nation, it would have standing to sue Israel in international courts over the theft of Palestinian property.

Obama has nothing to lose in unleashing the Security Council on Israel. He is already being defied by the Israel lobbies,which will surely oppose his reelection bid in 2012.

The beauty of it is that Obama does not have to instruct the US ambassador to the UN to vote against Israel. A series of abstentions would do the trick."

 

[bag]

And if we do that in Jerusalem, why not Manhattan?

Or London?

Should all living humans on this planet be entitled to land their ancestors allegedly lived on thousands of years ago?

Or are all Jews special exceptions?

two words....2 tribes, and 1 got smoked. why?? see WWII.

 

[docmauser1]

When Avnery contrasts "Jewish State" with "Hebrew State" what distinction is he making?

It depends on the origin of hashish he has been smoking prior. Peace, drugs, salam 'n roll, the usual stuff.

 

[georgephillip]

"Indeed, it is far more serious than that. On 19 October 2000 a Special Session of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights adopted a Resolution set forth in U.N. Document E/CN.4/S-5/L.2/Rev. 1, 'Condemning the provocative visit to al Aqsa Haram Sharif on 28 September 2000 by Ariel Sharon, the Likud party leader, which triggered the tragic events that followed in occupied East Jerusalem and the other occupied Palestinian territories, resulting in a high number of deaths and injuries among Palestinian civilians.'

"The U.N. Human Rights Commission then said it was “[g]ravely concerned” about several different types of atrocities inflicted by Israel upon the Palestinian People, which it denominated 'war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity.'

"In operative paragraph 1 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission then: 'Strongly condemns the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force in violation of international humanitarian law by the Israeli occupying Power against innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians...including many children, in the occupied territories, which constitutes a war crime and a crime against humanity;...'

"And in paragraph 5 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission: 'Also affirms that the deliberate and systematic killing of civilians and children by the Israeli occupying authorities constitutes a flagrant and grave violation of the right to life and also constitutes a crime against humanity;...'

"Article 68 of the United Nations Charter had expressly required the U.N.’s Economic and Social Council to “set up” this Commission 'for the promotion of human rights.'”

International Laws

 

[docmauser1]

other occupied Palestinian territories

There are no occupied territories, of course, Abu Mazrn said so.

Strongly condemns the disproportionate

Indeed, a round lands in Israel - a round is fired in a Gaza general direction. That must be proportionate for the UN wankers.