The One Percent Colossus

[georgephillip]

With apologies to Emma Lazarus but not to Cisco.

"The 1 Percent Colossus"

Like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, gilded gates shall stand
A mighty banker with a blow torch, whose flame
Shall imprison millions in debt, and his name is
Father of Wall Street greed. From his clutching hand
Grows worldwide corporations and hedge funds; whose rabid eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that the masters of the universe frame.
'Damn the groveling unemployed, your poverty is distasteful!' cries he
With bilious lips. 'Cast away your tired, your poor
Your huddled masses who are suckers and leeches,
Deport the teeming hordes from our privileged shores of gluttony.
Send these, the homeless, the jobless, the tempest-tost to an early grave,
I lift my Cayman Islands bank account beside my door of gold!
We are the 1 Percent: the chosen ones.
Be gone the rest of you. We won; you lost"

Read Emma's famous ode and then read about Cisco's star-spangled subsidiary at the foot of the scenic Swiss Alps:

"Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO)has cut its income taxes by $7 billion since 2005 by booking roughly half its worldwide profits at a subsidiary at the foot of the Swiss Alps that employs about 100 people.

"Now Cisco, the largest maker of networking equipment, wants to save even more -- by asking Congress to waive most federal taxes due when multinationals bring such offshore earnings home.

"Chief Executive Officer John T. Chambers has led the charge for the tax holiday, which would be the second since 2004. He says it would encourage companies to 'repatriate' as much as $1 trillion held abroad, spur domestic investment and create jobs."

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let me see if I understand your position.

You want Cisco Systems to bring all that foreign profit into the country in order to invest in jobs in the US, but you want to punish them first.

See what happens when you try to use the tax code as social engineering?

 

[georgephillip]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

 

[Too Tall]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

It appears to me that Cisco is operating within the current tax laws. Perhaps the law should be changed.

I wonder if the other countries where Cisco have taxable earnings are as whiny as some Americans. Of course that does raise the question of what percentage of the $20 billion in annual global sales is subject to US tax.

 

[editec]

When US corporations need the Marines to land in some foreign land to protect their interests then they're all over patriotism.

But of course paying taxes for that?

That is unAmerican!

Wake up, people.

 

[georgephillip]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

It appears to me that Cisco is operating within the current tax laws. Perhaps the law should be changed.

I wonder if the other countries where Cisco have taxable earnings are as whiny as some Americans. Of course that does raise the question of what percentage of the $20 billion in annual global sales is subject to US tax.

I don't think there's any doubt that what Cisco is doing is legal.

Changing the law would be easier if DC Republicans AND Democrats weren't involved.

War and taxes are how all governments socialize cost and privatize profit.

 

[georgephillip]

When US corporations need the Marines to land in some foreign land to protect their interests then they're all over patriotism.

But of course paying taxes for that?

That is unAmerican!

Wake up, people.

Where is Smedley when we need him most?

"The World War, rather our brief participation in it, has cost the United States some $52,000,000,000. Figure it out. That means $400 to every American man, woman, and child. And we haven't paid the debt yet. We are paying it, our children will pay it, and our children's children probably still will be paying the cost of that war.

"The normal profits of a business concern in the United States are six, eight, ten, and sometimes twelve percent. But war-time profits – ah! that is another matter – twenty, sixty, one hundred, three hundred, and even eighteen hundred per cent – the sky is the limit. All that traffic will bear.

"Uncle Sam has the money. Let's get it."

When Butler mentioned "our childrens' children" I think he was referring to the Boomers.

Does anyone know if the debt from "The War to End All Wars" has been paid off?

THREE TITLES [3] for the PRICE OF ONE.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

Yes, I do. They did not make those sales in the US, and already applied applicable US taxes. Charging them to bring money into the country is stupid.

 

[percysunshine]

I wonder if the other countries where Cisco have taxable earnings are as whiny as some Americans. Of course that does raise the question of what percentage of the $20 billion in annual global sales is subject to US tax.

All of it.

I worked in foreign countries for years. My income was taxed by the IRS at standard rates. My european ex-patriot co-workers laughed at me. Their governments did not tax any income at all if it was earned outside the the country. The offsets written into the US tax code are an attempt to achieve an equalized tax basis with other countries.

 

[georgephillip]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

Yes, I do. They did not make those sales in the US, and already applied applicable US taxes. Charging them to bring money into the country is stupid.

Did Cisco use any US patent protections to make those foreign sales?

"Cisco transfers a portion of the patent rights to technology developed in the U.S. to a Dutch unit, which sells some of the resulting products back to its parent for eventual distribution in the U.S., according to annual reports filed by the Amsterdam subsidiary. That means Cisco credits about $5 billion in U.S. sales annually to the Netherlands."

Are you willing to have your taxes increased or your government supplied services cut in order to continue subsidizing the corporate shell game?

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When has any tax code been used for anything except social engineering?
Socialize the taxes; privatize the profit.
It's a shell game as old as civilization.

"Cisco’s techniques cut the effective tax rate on its reported international income to about 5 percent since 2008 by moving profits from roughly $20 billion in annual global sales through the Netherlands, Switzerland and Bermuda, according to its records in four countries.

"The maneuvers, permitted by tax law, show how companies that use such strategies most aggressively would get the biggest benefit from the holiday, said Edward D. Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?” said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

You apparently think asking Cisco to pay US taxes on the $20 billion in annual global sales they currently dodge is punishment.

Try thinking of it as paying the US Government back for the cost of infrastructure, schooling, and security that make global corporate profits possible.

Yes, I do. They did not make those sales in the US, and already applied applicable US taxes. Charging them to bring money into the country is stupid.

Did Cisco use any US patent protections to make those foreign sales?

"Cisco transfers a portion of the patent rights to technology developed in the U.S. to a Dutch unit, which sells some of the resulting products back to its parent for eventual distribution in the U.S., according to annual reports filed by the Amsterdam subsidiary. That means Cisco credits about $5 billion in U.S. sales annually to the Netherlands."

Are you willing to have your taxes increased or your government supplied services cut in order to continue subsidizing the corporate shell game?

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

And?

Patents are supposed to be international. If they only applied in one country China could copy any patent filed in the US and sell it for less. That actually violates international treaty law, so they are required to prevent that from happening. They have not always done soe, but are doing better now that they are part of the international community and more dependent on trade.

Are you capable of actual thought, or do you just spout stuff from conspiracy theory sites? If the latter I will just start ignoring your posts, it is a waste of time to talk to people who think the world is a vast conspiracy to control their lives.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, I do. They did not make those sales in the US, and already applied applicable US taxes. Charging them to bring money into the country is stupid.

Did Cisco use any US patent protections to make those foreign sales?

"Cisco transfers a portion of the patent rights to technology developed in the U.S. to a Dutch unit, which sells some of the resulting products back to its parent for eventual distribution in the U.S., according to annual reports filed by the Amsterdam subsidiary. That means Cisco credits about $5 billion in U.S. sales annually to the Netherlands."

Are you willing to have your taxes increased or your government supplied services cut in order to continue subsidizing the corporate shell game?

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg

And?

Patents are supposed to be international. If they only applied in one country China could copy any patent filed in the US and sell it for less. That actually violates international treaty law, so they are required to prevent that from happening. They have not always done soe, but are doing better now that they are part of the international community and more dependent on trade.

Are you capable of actual thought, or do you just spout stuff from conspiracy theory sites? If the latter I will just start ignoring your posts, it is a waste of time to talk to people who think the world is a vast conspiracy to control their lives.

And!

Products developed from US infrastructure, i.e., schools and courts were created in the Netherlands and sold back to the US for eventual distribution in this country. "That means Cisco credits about $5 billion in US sales annually to the Netherlands."

Is Bloomberg a "conspiracy theory site?"

When a former corporate lawyer now teaching at USC law school says:

“'Why should we reward firms for successfully gaming the tax system when we in turn are called on to make up the missing tax revenues?' said Kleinbard, a former corporate tax attorney at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. 'Much of these earnings overseas are reaped from an enormous shell game: Firms move their taxable income from the U.S. and other major economies -- where their customers and key employees are in reality located -- to tax havens.'”

Is it engaging in "actual thought" to give his opinions more credence than anonymous internet posters?

Is reality an "actual thought" for you?

Biggest Tax Avoiders Win Most Gaming $1 Trillion U.S. Tax Break - Bloomberg