The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[ESay]

Well, okay. I have read your link. And I seem to understand now what you tried to say by it. That the Jews are not indigenous people to the land and don't have a right to claim it. Right?

The Old Testament clearly lays out the relationship between the Israelite's and God. The Lord did choose the Israelite's as His chosen people while at the same time He set conditions on them. If they chose to abide by His commandments, they would be fruitful and multiple exceedingly.

The path they took and the outcome of these actions is coming to fruition as we speak. But that is not the point of this thread. This thread is about who is indigenous to the region.

The Israelite's abandon Canaan and move to Egypt leaving everything behind. Since they abandoned their homeland (Canaan) and moved to Egypt I do not believe they have any rightful claim to the land today.
-

Well, first af all, I want to admit that my comprehension of the OT is quite low, because I began to read it not so much time ago and my knowledge of it is quite scarce yet.

As far as I understand, you mentioned the time of Joseph, right? Then, first af all, my understanding is the term 'their land' can be applied with some conditions. Land of Hebrews is more about describing the land where they lived, with some other people, rather than about possession. People of that time there were nomads and didn't have established states.

This land became really the land of Israel when the Jews conquered it and established their state there after Moses.

 

[watchingfromafar]

G-d's covenant is eternal no matter what Israel do,

No matter "what" Israel does defies the covenant. Trump claims he can shoot and kill a stranger in the street and no be punished for it, it seems you are just as ignorant.

we will be redeemed, for the sake of His Name,

To say you will be redeemed means they/you did a wrong and He will look the other way. That my sweet plump dumpling is NOT God’s way but the devil’s mind set instead.

The conditions are on how we will experience it collectively,

Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

not on the covenant itself, that is eternal.

The Israelites are not gods, they are not eternal. They lived and continue to live based on lies, and racism and for this He will punish them for it. Your kind is being judged as we speak and your punishment will occur in my lifetime; this I can assure you.

The Israelites didn't abandon Canaan

Yes they did and you cannot prove otherwise

Israel A"H was supposed to be sent in chains as a slave to Egypt,

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.
(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:
(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.
(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

Chains? "gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land"

G-d turned everything that Israel A"H was received with royal accommodations.

Prove it or stop lying

But of course you never read the entire book.

I have read it; you my sweet plump dumpling should read it too
-

 

[Taz]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

 

[watchingfromafar]

This land became really the land of Israel when the Jews conquered it and established their state there after Moses.

You are relying on folklore to justify your position.

Definition of folklore
1: traditional customs, tales, sayings, dances, or art forms preserved among a people

The Jews of old had no army, they were shepherds.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
-

 

[ESay]

This land became really the land of Israel when the Jews conquered it and established their state there after Moses.

You are relying on folklore to justify your position.

Definition of folklore
1: traditional customs, tales, sayings, dances, or art forms preserved among a people

The Jews of old had no army, they were shepherds.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
-

You can call it folklore, I am okay with that. You can propose some other source.

Yes, they came to Egypt as shepherds. But if you read the Numbers, you will see that they were organized by Moses as a large military unit. The tribes had their own places when the Jews stayed on some place or walking; all men from 20 years old were counted etc.

 

[MartyNYC]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Palestine was Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate, which became Israel.

 

[rylah]

G-d's covenant is eternal no matter what Israel do,

No matter "what" Israel does defies the covenant. Trump claims he can shoot and kill a stranger in the street and no be punished for it, it seems you are just as ignorant.

It's grotesque how you'll loose all integrity just like that, by the first sentence.

we will be redeemed, for the sake of His Name,

To say you will be redeemed means they/you did a wrong and He will look the other way. That my sweet plump dumpling is NOT God’s way but the devil’s mind set instead.

Regardless of right and wrong redemption is a function of being Adam,
it's not looking the other way, rather that G-d has His plans,
and because G-d chose to carry His Name in Israel.

The conditions are on how we will experience it collectively,

Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

Yeah, this verse is talking about Ammonites,
the enemies of Israel.

All Israel's enemies end up in the dust bin of history.

not on the covenant itself, that is eternal.

The Israelites are not gods, they are not eternal. They lived and continue to live based on lies, and racism and for this He will punish them for it. Your kind is being judged as we speak and your punishment will occur in my lifetime; this I can assure you.

Actually Israel is eternal as the laws of the earth and heavens, and beyond:

"For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you. "

Yeshayahu 54​

The Israelites didn't abandon Canaan

Yes they did and you cannot prove otherwise

It wasn't abandonment,
everything was a according to the eternal covenant:

And He said to Abram, "You shall surely know that your seed will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and they will enslave them and oppress them, for four hundred years.

Beresheet 15
​

Israel A"H was supposed to be sent in chains as a slave to Egypt,

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.
(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:
(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.
(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

Chains? "gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land"

See above, and following :

And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Tell your brothers, 'Do this load up your beasts and go, enter the land of Canaan.

18And take your father and your households and come to me, and I will give you the best of the land of Egypt, and [you will] eat the fat of the land.'

19And you [Joseph] have been commanded [to tell them], 'Do this: take yourselves wagons from the land of Egypt for your young children and for your wives, and you shall carry your father and come.

20And let your eye not be concerned about your utensils, for the best of all the land of Egypt is yours.' "

21And the sons of Israel did so, and Joseph gave them wagons by Pharaoh's orders, and he gave them provisions for the way.

22He gave them all, to each one [several] changes of clothes, and to Benjamin he gave three hundred [pieces of] silver and five changes of clothes.

23And to his father he sent the following: ten he donkeys carrying of the best of Egypt, and ten she donkeys carrying grain, bread, and [other] food, for his father for the way.

Beresheet 45
​

G-d turned everything that Israel A"H was received with royal accommodations.

Prove it or stop lying

The Bein HaBeyarim covenant set the seed of Avraham Avinu A"H to be enslaved by Egypt.
Instead of abandoning Canaan, Israel Avinu A"H was carried on with treasures from Pharaoh, instead of as a slave, as was intended, and given the best of land, while famine in Egypt stopped.

G-d eventually turned the tragedy of Yosef A"H into a blessing.
So until the fathers of the tribes passed, Israel were not enslaved.

But of course you never read the entire book.

I have read it; you my sweet plump dumpling should read it too
-

All that chest thumping is 100%,
maybe work on reading comprehension.

 

[rylah]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

 

[Shusha]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

Again, this simply conflates territory with peoples as though they were the same thing. They are not.

"Native Americans" may be citizens of the United States of America, but they do not refer to themselves, their people nor their traditional lands with terminology of the invader/colonizer like "America". In both Canada and the US, indigenous and aboriginal peoples are increasingly rejecting such terminology in favour of their own self-description. They self-identify using their own language and traditions.

 

[MartyNYC]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

Everyone born in British Mandatory Palestine was British.

 

[Shusha]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

Everyone born in British Mandatory Palestine was British.

This is incorrect.

 

[Taz]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

 

[MartyNYC]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Show me a history of the country of palestine.

 

[Taz]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Show me a history of the country of palestine.

Ya sure, hang on, I’ll get it ready.

 

[rylah]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Actually Native Americans are only 1.6% of the US population,
Native Canadians are about 4.5% of Canada population.

In spite of your claim,
majority of the people born in those countries,
are specifically not defined as natives, or actually belong to any of the native tribes.

 

[MartyNYC]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Actually Native Americans are only 1.6% of the US population,
Native Canadians are about 4.5% of Canada population.

In spite of your claim,
majority of the people born in those countries,
are specifically not defined as natives, or actually belong to any of the native tribes.

If people born in palestine are natives, how come nobody is named Palestini?

 

[Shusha]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

If you are born in Catalonia are you a native of Spain or Catalonia?

 

[rylah]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Actually Native Americans are only 1.6% of the US population,
Native Canadians are about 4.5% of Canada population.

In spite of your claim,
majority of the people born in those countries,
are specifically not defined as natives, or actually belong to any of the native tribes.

If people born in palestine are natives, how come nobody is named Palestini?

View attachment 362596

Most common Israeli surnames are - Peretz, Mizrahi, Cohen, Levy, Avraham and Dahan etc.

Some Israeli Jews have surnames like the ones on Your list: Halebi, Tarablusi or Alfasi...

They do indicate location of diaspora, as much as with many of the East European diaspora,
but what sets the native tribes of those places from the native tribes of Judea, Israel,
is that Judeans carrying these surnames kept their distinct native culture,
to preserve their civilization and re-constitute it in later generations.

 

[MartyNYC]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Actually Native Americans are only 1.6% of the US population,
Native Canadians are about 4.5% of Canada population.

In spite of your claim,
majority of the people born in those countries,
are specifically not defined as natives, or actually belong to any of the native tribes.

If people born in palestine are natives, how come nobody is named Palestini?

View attachment 362596

Most common Israeli surnames are - Peretz, Mizrahi, Cohen, Levy, Avraham and Dahan etc.

Some Israeli Jews have surnames like the ones on Your list: Halebi, Tarablusi or Alfasi...

They do indicate location of diaspora, as much as with many of the East European diaspora,
but what sets the native tribes of those places from the native tribes of Judea, Israel,
is that Judeans carrying these surnames kept their distinct native culture,
to preserve their civilization and re-constitute it in later generations.

I know numerous Israelis with the surname Israeli. How come there is no record of even 1 person named Palestini?

 

[rylah]

Anyone born in Palestine is native to Palestine. See how that works? Very simple.

Really, every one born in America is a Native American?

That’s right. I’m born in America and that makes me a native American. If you’re born in Germany, you’re a native German. ...

Actually Native Americans are only 1.6% of the US population,
Native Canadians are about 4.5% of Canada population.

In spite of your claim,
majority of the people born in those countries,
are specifically not defined as natives, or actually belong to any of the native tribes.

If people born in palestine are natives, how come nobody is named Palestini?

View attachment 362596

Most common Israeli surnames are - Peretz, Mizrahi, Cohen, Levy, Avraham and Dahan etc.

Some Israeli Jews have surnames like the ones on Your list: Halebi, Tarablusi or Alfasi...

They do indicate location of diaspora, as much as with many of the East European diaspora,
but what sets the native tribes of those places from the native tribes of Judea, Israel,
is that Judeans carrying these surnames kept their distinct native culture,
to preserve their civilization and re-constitute it in later generations.

I know numerous Israelis with the surname Israeli. How come there is no record of even 1 person named Palestini?

Because the word 'Palestine' has no meaning in Arabic.