CDZ The Nuts And Bolts Of The Coming Hillary Defeat

[DarkFury]

I think more folks should be taking Trump serious I really do. If anything spells defeat for Hillary it's spelled T-R-U-M-P. Got a video here on how and just why Trump IS taking Republicans AND Independents and yes Democrats away from those OLD same old same old lines we hear from BOTH sides.

The connection to the America people is REAL and the climb is REAL. Democrats can cry "plant" or whatever they want. But STILL the fact remains America is moving right. For every inch America has moved left it will move right. That's just the nature of balance.

An 8 minute NON political video looking at the why's of balance of movement and the nerves and the tones he is striking.

 

[Statistikhengst]

I respect your right to think that more people should take Donald Trump seriously.

However, please explain why the video is non-political. You stated that it is non-political. I contend that that statement is a brazen lie, unworthy of the CDZ.

I watched the video. It is an ugly screed that says "Americans, REAL Americans, have been dreaming of a candidate who says the obvious: that illegal immigrants from Mexico are a low-rent bunch that includes rapists and murderers".

That statement alone is just about as political as it can get.

And the video went out of it's way to mention that GOP candidate Jeb Bush is married to a Mexican woman. That is called "guilt by association" and is a common political trick. And it invokes bigotry.

And an attack on Pres. Obama:

"And even the Washington Post blasted Pres. Obama for his silence on Miss Steinway"

There are also ugly tones of racism in this video:

"Imagine that: a white man who doesn't apologize".
"Immigrants learn the magic words very quickly, don't they... if you don't want drug runners and murderers prancing across the border, you're a white supremacist."

"As Ann Coulter points out, we don't get to choose who is born here. I wish we could."

And attacks on the left in general:

"Lefties have had to run-off and look up crime statistics"

So, please explain how the video you claim is non-political is actually "non-political". Please explain how this is anything but a screed.


Coyote - why don't you watch the video, too...

 

[ScienceRocks]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

 

[DarkFury]

I respect your right to think that more people should take Donald Trump seriously.

However, please explain why the video is non-political. You stated that it is non-political. I contend that that statement is a brazen lie, unworthy of the CDZ.

I watched the video. It is an ugly screed that says "Americans, REAL Americans, have been dreaming of a candidate who says the obvious: that illegal immigrants from Mexico are a low-rent bunch that includes rapists and murderers".

That statement alone is just about as political as it can get.

And the video went out of it's way to mention that GOP candidate Jeb Bush is married to a Mexican woman. That is called "guilt by association" and is a common political trick. And it invokes bigotry.

And an attack on Pres. Obama:

"And even the Washington Post blasted Pres. Obama for his silence on Miss Steinway"

There are also ugly tones of racism in this video:

"Imagine that: a white man who doesn't apologize".
"Immigrants learn the magic words very quickly, don't they... if you don't want drug runners and murderers prancing across the border, you're a white supremacist."

"As Ann Coulter points out, we don't get to choose who is born here. I wish we could."

And attacks on the left in general:

"Lefties have had to run-off and look up crime statistics"

So, please explain how the video you claim is non-political is actually "non-political". Please explain how this is anything but a screed.


Coyote - why don't you watch the video, too...

The CDZ as I understand it is for civil debate by MEMBERS. I have read nor heard of ANY rule that prevents a "hot" topic from being SHOWN. If my understanding IS correct it's up to the members to remain civil.

I would call that video NON political. That man is ENTITLED to his freedom of speech and makes MANY valid points. It's YOU that is choosing to read politics into it. The video is not racist or foul mouthed at all.

I feel/think you are upset because it does NOT meet YOUR vision of valid or well presented. The second point I think of the CDZ is to provide for a area to break down the CONTENT in an adult fashion.

Content control is NOT the feature the CDZ promotes it promotes the civility of MEMBERS and their text to screen and civil discourse and behavior and I fail to see where that video brings ANY harm to that goal.

 

[DarkFury]

@Statistikhengst Just a little add here before I drop this subject. You are arguing the CDZ is about content control and my stance is the CDZ is about self control. But we have another problem here as well.

YOU chose to avoid the topic and presented a straw man argument that had nothing to do with content/message. That would be a troll INSIDE the CDZ which is NOT allowed as I understand it.

Your complaint should have been made using the report button and NOT in the thread. If I understand the rules correct. Good day.

 

[candycorn]

Trump will not be president. He has not offered a single workable solution to any problem America faces. As for the voting blocks, they will break down as they always do, angry white men for the Republicans, nearly every one else for the Democrats. Hillary is pretty much the only one that can derail her presidency. As we've seen in the past, she has a likability problem which just gets worse when she tries to become more folksy. She needs to make the election about qualified and not; about ready and not. If she does that, she wins. If she tries to be ordinary folk; she may lose.

 

[DarkFury]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

You know I went to that site and lurked it, mostly because everybody here talks about it. There nothing really there but hate.

But now on topic. Americans are tired of being lied to they really are and the number of angry Americans has been growing for years. Trump has touched that base and given it life and by putting the issues forward has validated the thoughts of many Americans.

Hillary on the other hand has avoided taking stands avoided the press and just announced avoiding the first debate. That looks bad reason or not.

I think the real question here is do you see leadership? Do you see it in her or him? And what kind of leadership? The hand wringing kind that says many things and makes many promises but fails to deliver?

Or do you see the civilian style general the quarter back? America USED to lead the world in just about everything. If we expect and truly want to go forward and retake our heritage and promote our future as a nation as a world leader do we wring our hands and do the same old same old? Or do we get fired up again and not only try but do what said impossible.

That's why leadership is important.

 

[DarkFury]

Trump will not be president. He has not offered a single workable solution to any problem America faces. As for the voting blocks, they will break down as they always do, angry white men for the Republicans, nearly every one else for the Democrats. Hillary is pretty much the only one that can derail her presidency. As we've seen in the past, she has a likability problem which just gets worse when she tries to become more folksy. She needs to make the election about qualified and not; about ready and not. If she does that, she wins. If she tries to be ordinary folk; she may lose.

Her like problem is no where near as bad as her honesty problem. When you are dealing with a population that has been lied to over and over and over yet again honesty becomes critical. And a majority of Americans view her as a liar.

That is a HUGE problem for her today. A few years ago it may not have mattered that much but today's voters want honesty even IF it's raw and sharp.

We ARE without a doubt entering a time when honesty over comes politics. THAT would explain Sanders rise. NO socialist has ever had the good numbers Sanders has EVER. But his honesty about his thoughts over comes the political stripe he comes from.

 

[candycorn]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

You know I went to that site and lurked it, mostly because everybody here talks about it. There nothing really there but hate.

I would think you'd feel right at home there.

But now on topic. Americans are tired of being lied to they really are and the number of angry Americans has been growing for years. Trump has touched that base and given it life and by putting the issues forward has validated the thoughts of many Americans.

In normal times, Immigration polls at about 3%. Education and jobs are what Americans care about. What he has done was tap into xeneophobia and hatred more than anything else.

In all cases, he has yet to come up with a plan that would pass Congress much less work.

I think the real question here is do you see leadership? Do you see it in her or him?

I see leadership in her much more than Mr. Trump. There is a difference between being a leader and being a bully. Calling people "loser" and handing out your opponent's cell phone number isn't leadership; they are what are called stunts. At some point, Americans want to know the strategy. Leadership without strategy is what leads to disaster.

And what kind of leadership?

A former Secretary of State who is respected worldwide is much more of a leader than one who is insulting to our neighbors.

Or do you see the civilian style general the quarter back? America USED to lead the world in just about everything. If we expect and truly want to go forward and retake our heritage and promote our future as a nation as a world leader do we wring our hands and do the same old same old? Or do we get fired up again and not only try but do what said impossible.
That's why leadership is important.

And the strategy for that is what?

 

[Statistikhengst]

@Statistikhengst Just a little add here before I drop this subject. You are arguing the CDZ is about content control and my stance is the CDZ is about self control. But we have another problem here as well.

YOU chose to avoid the topic and presented a straw man argument that had nothing to do with content/message. That would be a troll INSIDE the CDZ which is NOT allowed as I understand it.

Your complaint should have been made using the report button and NOT in the thread. If I understand the rules correct. Good day.

Uhm, no.

The CDZ is about honesty and civility in debate.

You were not honest when you characterized the video as "non-partisan". It is anything but non-partisan.

There is no rule against presenting a partisan video in the CDZ. Have at it. Only, you should then be truthful about it. That would not make the video any less relevant, well, assuming that the linkage between the video and your intent in the OP title is there. And sure, the guy in the video can express any opinion he wants to. Where, oh where did I say that he does not have that right?

Furthermore, your OP Title:

The Nuts And Bolts Of The Coming Hillary Defeat

has absolutely nothing to do with the video you use as the basis for your argument. That video attempts to show why Trump is doing well among Republicans. It actually has little to do with Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps you can explain why you pick such a title that is so disjunct in relation to the material you use to support your point.

For these reasons, your OP imo makes little sense and is hard to accept as a serious topic for debate in the CDZ.

 

[DarkFury]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

You know I went to that site and lurked it, mostly because everybody here talks about it. There nothing really there but hate.

I would think you'd feel right at home there.

But now on topic. Americans are tired of being lied to they really are and the number of angry Americans has been growing for years. Trump has touched that base and given it life and by putting the issues forward has validated the thoughts of many Americans.

In normal times, Immigration polls at about 3%. Education and jobs are what Americans care about. What he has done was tap into xeneophobia and hatred more than anything else.

In all cases, he has yet to come up with a plan that would pass Congress much less work.

I think the real question here is do you see leadership? Do you see it in her or him?

I see leadership in her much more than Mr. Trump. There is a difference between being a leader and being a bully. Calling people "loser" and handing out your opponent's cell phone number isn't leadership; they are what are called stunts. At some point, Americans want to know the strategy. Leadership without strategy is what leads to disaster.

And what kind of leadership?

A former Secretary of State who is respected worldwide is much more of a leader than one who is insulting to our neighbors.

Or do you see the civilian style general the quarter back? America USED to lead the world in just about everything. If we expect and truly want to go forward and retake our heritage and promote our future as a nation as a world leader do we wring our hands and do the same old same old? Or do we get fired up again and not only try but do what said impossible.
That's why leadership is important.

And the strategy for that is what?

But she lies CC she lies. And look at who respects her. Third world nations who will respect ANYBODY that hands them a check. That's who respects her.

And look at who does NOT respect her. Russia and China and they compete with us. That IS where you NEED respect from countries that compete with you NOT the world welfare abusers.

 

[DarkFury]

@Statistikhengst Just a little add here before I drop this subject. You are arguing the CDZ is about content control and my stance is the CDZ is about self control. But we have another problem here as well.

YOU chose to avoid the topic and presented a straw man argument that had nothing to do with content/message. That would be a troll INSIDE the CDZ which is NOT allowed as I understand it.

Your complaint should have been made using the report button and NOT in the thread. If I understand the rules correct. Good day.

Uhm, no.

The CDZ is about honesty and civility in debate.

You were not honest when you characterized the video as "non-partisan". It is anything but non-partisan.

There is no rule against presenting a partisan video in the CDZ. Have at it. Only, you should then be truthful about it. That would not make the video any less relevant, well, assuming that the linkage between the video and your intent in the OP title is there. And sure, the guy in the video can express any opinion he wants to. Where, oh where did I say that he does not have that right?

Furthermore, your OP Title:

The Nuts And Bolts Of The Coming Hillary Defeat

has absolutely nothing to do with the video you use as the basis for your argument. That video attempts to show why Trump is doing well among Republicans. It actually has little to do with Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps you can explain why you pick such a title that is so disjunct in relation to the material you use to support your point.

For these reasons, your OP imo makes little sense and is hard to accept as a serious topic for debate in the CDZ.

Please quit trolling my thread with your off topic antics. There ARE on topic valid points being made here.
Thank you.
Fury

 

[Statistikhengst]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

You know I went to that site and lurked it, mostly because everybody here talks about it. There nothing really there but hate.

But now on topic. Americans are tired of being lied to they really are and the number of angry Americans has been growing for years. Trump has touched that base and given it life and by putting the issues forward has validated the thoughts of many Americans.

Hillary on the other hand has avoided taking stands avoided the press and just announced avoiding the first debate. That looks bad reason or not.

I think the real question here is do you see leadership? Do you see it in her or him? And what kind of leadership? The hand wringing kind that says many things and makes many promises but fails to deliver?

Or do you see the civilian style general the quarter back? America USED to lead the world in just about everything. If we expect and truly want to go forward and retake our heritage and promote our future as a nation as a world leader do we wring our hands and do the same old same old? Or do we get fired up again and not only try but do what said impossible.

That's why leadership is important.

I do agree with you that the American people are tired of being lied to.

They were tired of being lied to in Vietnam.

They were tired of being lied to about Watergate.

They were tired of being lied to in the Iran-Contra affair.

They were tired about Bill Clinton lying about his affair with a young apprentice.

They were tired about Bush's lies for going to war with Iraq.

They have been tired of many lies.

So, when Donald Trump claims he is going to build a physical wall to completely separate the USA from Mexico, a physical wall that must span 1,954 miles, unbroken, plus also the border to California at Tijuana, and that he is going to force Mexico to pay for a wall that he is going to build, is anyone going to believe him? Being able to close a deal in real estate does not necessarily qualify one to negotiate on the international stage and saber rattling may sound good, but usually brings absolutely nothing.

Does anyone have any idea how expensive a 1,954 mile long wall is going to cost? To maintain? To install surveillance?

So, yeah, let's talk about lies.

How can you trust a candidate who has already lied?

 

[Statistikhengst]

@Statistikhengst Just a little add here before I drop this subject. You are arguing the CDZ is about content control and my stance is the CDZ is about self control. But we have another problem here as well.

YOU chose to avoid the topic and presented a straw man argument that had nothing to do with content/message. That would be a troll INSIDE the CDZ which is NOT allowed as I understand it.

Your complaint should have been made using the report button and NOT in the thread. If I understand the rules correct. Good day.

Uhm, no.

The CDZ is about honesty and civility in debate.

You were not honest when you characterized the video as "non-partisan". It is anything but non-partisan.

There is no rule against presenting a partisan video in the CDZ. Have at it. Only, you should then be truthful about it. That would not make the video any less relevant, well, assuming that the linkage between the video and your intent in the OP title is there. And sure, the guy in the video can express any opinion he wants to. Where, oh where did I say that he does not have that right?

Furthermore, your OP Title:

The Nuts And Bolts Of The Coming Hillary Defeat

has absolutely nothing to do with the video you use as the basis for your argument. That video attempts to show why Trump is doing well among Republicans. It actually has little to do with Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps you can explain why you pick such a title that is so disjunct in relation to the material you use to support your point.

For these reasons, your OP imo makes little sense and is hard to accept as a serious topic for debate in the CDZ.

Please quit trolling my thread with your off topic antics. There ARE on topic valid points being made here.
Thank you.
Fury

Only, I am not trolling.

As far as I can tell, until now, I am the only one to have completely watched the video you use as the crux of your argument and I also quoted a number of things from that video, word for word. Or, do you wish to claim that those things are not in the video? They are, you know, exactly as I quoted them.

This means that the points I have attacked (not the people, but rather, the points) are as on-topic as can be, because it is material that YOU presented.

Secondly, you have still not explained what your thread title is supposed to have to do with your video excerpt, which you undoubtedly use as the crux for your argument.

Please explain this.

 

[DarkFury]

I think Trump may be a white nationalist and may even post on stormfront! He makes some good points on the immigration issue. Our jobs should go to Americans.

You know I went to that site and lurked it, mostly because everybody here talks about it. There nothing really there but hate.

But now on topic. Americans are tired of being lied to they really are and the number of angry Americans has been growing for years. Trump has touched that base and given it life and by putting the issues forward has validated the thoughts of many Americans.

Hillary on the other hand has avoided taking stands avoided the press and just announced avoiding the first debate. That looks bad reason or not.

I think the real question here is do you see leadership? Do you see it in her or him? And what kind of leadership? The hand wringing kind that says many things and makes many promises but fails to deliver?

Or do you see the civilian style general the quarter back? America USED to lead the world in just about everything. If we expect and truly want to go forward and retake our heritage and promote our future as a nation as a world leader do we wring our hands and do the same old same old? Or do we get fired up again and not only try but do what said impossible.

That's why leadership is important.

I do agree with you that the American people are tired of being lied to.

They were tired of being lied to in Vietnam.

They were tired of being lied to about Watergate.

They were tired of being lied to in the Iran-Contra affair.

They were tired about Bill Clinton lying about his affair with a young apprentice.

They were tired about Bush's lies for going to war with Iraq.

They have been tired of many lies.

So, when Donald Trump claims he is going to build a physical wall to completely separate the USA from Mexico, a physical wall that must span 1,954 miles, unbroken, plus also the border to California at Tijuana, and that he is going to force Mexico to pay for a wall that he is going to build, is anyone going to believe him? Being able to close a deal in real estate does not necessarily qualify one to negotiate on the international stage and saber rattling may sound good, but usually brings absolutely nothing.

Does anyone have any idea how expensive a 1,954 mile long wall is going to cost? To maintain? To install surveillance?

So, yeah, let's talk about lies.

How can you trust a candidate who has already lied?

Mexico gets somewhere between 350 and 400 million a year in aid from us. Trump has said we deduct 100k per ILLEGAL caught from their aid package.

So just 4000 ILLEGALS could wipe out their aid package. So what would then be in the best interest of the Mexican government? Keeping ILLEGALS home OR blowing 400 million in aid?
They WILL build the fence.

 

[DarkFury]

@Statistikhengst Just a little add here before I drop this subject. You are arguing the CDZ is about content control and my stance is the CDZ is about self control. But we have another problem here as well.

YOU chose to avoid the topic and presented a straw man argument that had nothing to do with content/message. That would be a troll INSIDE the CDZ which is NOT allowed as I understand it.

Your complaint should have been made using the report button and NOT in the thread. If I understand the rules correct. Good day.

Uhm, no.

The CDZ is about honesty and civility in debate.

You were not honest when you characterized the video as "non-partisan". It is anything but non-partisan.

There is no rule against presenting a partisan video in the CDZ. Have at it. Only, you should then be truthful about it. That would not make the video any less relevant, well, assuming that the linkage between the video and your intent in the OP title is there. And sure, the guy in the video can express any opinion he wants to. Where, oh where did I say that he does not have that right?

Furthermore, your OP Title:

The Nuts And Bolts Of The Coming Hillary Defeat

has absolutely nothing to do with the video you use as the basis for your argument. That video attempts to show why Trump is doing well among Republicans. It actually has little to do with Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps you can explain why you pick such a title that is so disjunct in relation to the material you use to support your point.

For these reasons, your OP imo makes little sense and is hard to accept as a serious topic for debate in the CDZ.

Please quit trolling my thread with your off topic antics. There ARE on topic valid points being made here.
Thank you.
Fury

Only, I am not trolling.

As far as I can tell, until now, I am the only one to have completely watched the video you use as the crux of your argument and I also quoted a number of things from that video, word for word. Or, do you wish to claim that those things are not in the video? They are, you know, exactly as I quoted them.

This means that the points I have attacked (not the people, but rather, the points) are as on-topic as can be, because it is material that YOU presented.

Secondly, you have still not explained what your thread title is supposed to have to do with your video excerpt, which you undoubtedly use as the crux for your argument.

Please explain this.

To reduce this debate to thread title IS trolling. Once again I ask nicely, ON topic. Do NOT troll.

 

[DarkFury]

I think more folks should be taking Trump serious I really do. If anything spells defeat for Hillary it's spelled T-R-U-M-P. Got a video here on how and just why Trump IS taking Republicans AND Independents and yes Democrats away from those OLD same old same old lines we hear from BOTH sides.

The connection to the America people is REAL and the climb is REAL. Democrats can cry "plant" or whatever they want. But STILL the fact remains America is moving right. For every inch America has moved left it will move right. That's just the nature of balance.

An 8 minute NON political video looking at the why's of balance of movement and the nerves and the tones he is striking.

I hope the dochebag left brings Trump down on their asses.

I wouldn't spit on a New Yorker on fire, but, I'd vote for him just to see the Left implode.

I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Party politics may well be getting ready to take a back seat to honesty in BOTH parties. Clinton will fail that and Bush will as well. I see Bernie as the biggest winner in this.

His socialist politics may not be liked but his honesty about them IS gaining ground.

 

[Roadrunner]

I think more folks should be taking Trump serious I really do. If anything spells defeat for Hillary it's spelled T-R-U-M-P. Got a video here on how and just why Trump IS taking Republicans AND Independents and yes Democrats away from those OLD same old same old lines we hear from BOTH sides.

The connection to the America people is REAL and the climb is REAL. Democrats can cry "plant" or whatever they want. But STILL the fact remains America is moving right. For every inch America has moved left it will move right. That's just the nature of balance.

An 8 minute NON political video looking at the why's of balance of movement and the nerves and the tones he is striking.

I hope the dochebag left brings Trump down on their asses.

I wouldn't spit on a New Yorker on fire, but, I'd vote for him just to see the Left implode.

I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Party politics may well be getting ready to take a back seat to honesty in BOTH parties. Clinton will fail that and Bush will as well. I see Bernie as the biggest winner in this.

His socialist politics may not be liked but his honesty about them IS gaining ground.

A Trump/Sanders race would be the most exciting political race of my lifetime.

Beats the shit out of a Bush/Clinton race, for sure.

 

[DarkFury]

I think more folks should be taking Trump serious I really do. If anything spells defeat for Hillary it's spelled T-R-U-M-P. Got a video here on how and just why Trump IS taking Republicans AND Independents and yes Democrats away from those OLD same old same old lines we hear from BOTH sides.

The connection to the America people is REAL and the climb is REAL. Democrats can cry "plant" or whatever they want. But STILL the fact remains America is moving right. For every inch America has moved left it will move right. That's just the nature of balance.

An 8 minute NON political video looking at the why's of balance of movement and the nerves and the tones he is striking.

I hope the dochebag left brings Trump down on their asses.

I wouldn't spit on a New Yorker on fire, but, I'd vote for him just to see the Left implode.

I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Party politics may well be getting ready to take a back seat to honesty in BOTH parties. Clinton will fail that and Bush will as well. I see Bernie as the biggest winner in this.

His socialist politics may not be liked but his honesty about them IS gaining ground.

A Trump/Sanders race would be the most exciting political race of my lifetime.

Beats the shit out of a Bush/Clinton race, for sure.

I would like to see a Trump/Cruz VS Biden/Sanders
BOTH Presidential runners go at it at same time and on the same stage BOTH VP's go at it in a back and forth with the SAME question.

 

[Derideo_Te]

In Post #17 the OP incorrectly accuses Stat of trolling when he hasn't done anything of the sort. All of his posts have been exactly on topic to the point of quoting the OP word for word.

In post #18 the OP agrees with post #16 that is a blatant CDZ violation.

The content of the OP is a violation of the purpose of the CDZ per this ruling by Intense;

Guidelines for the Clean Debate Forum US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Understand that we are not here to run cover for propaganda or soap box preaching, be it left or right.

The OP is nothing but propaganda that is pro-right and anti-left. The linked video is highly inflammatory making allegations that verge on racism.

Unfortunately it is readily apparent that the OP is abusing the CDZ as nothing more than a "soap box" to shut down legitimate criticism as "trolling" while ignoring all too obvious violations of the written CDZ protocols.

This thread should be moved to the Politics forum where it belongs IMO. Looping in the mods so that they make their call.

theDoctorisIn
Coyote
AngelsNDemons
flacaltenn
Dont Taz Me Bro
AVG-JOE

TYIA