The North Pole could melt this year

[Foxfyre]

It's a non-issue.
The climate changes. Get over it.

It isn't a non-issue when our President and Congress are forcing more and more taxes and regulation on us and could lock us into international agreements that could impact every aspect of our collective lives together. I think the responsible thing is to learn as much as possible about it using ALL the scientific opinion out there and making our voices heard.

I have a natural disinclination to willingly accept restrictions on my freedoms and/or making major lifestyle changes that reduce my quality of life based on what very well may be flawed or bogus science.

 

[Chris]

Given some time, I can probably come up with at least some reference sources, but this article in the NYT, while not specifically mentioning an 'ice free' Arctic ocean, does mention year round temperatures that would preclude the presence of ice:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/science/earth/01climate.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

55 million years ago? You must be joking. The seabed there wasn't even at the pole 55 million years ago. Ever heard of plate tectonics?

We are pouring 8 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. Half the North Pole has melted in just 50 years. This is no joke.

 

[BrianH]

55 million years ago? You must be joking. The seabed there wasn't even at the pole 55 million years ago. Ever heard of plate tectonics?

We are pouring 8 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. Half the North Pole has melted in just 50 years. This is no joke.

IPCC....Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change...Not Intergovernmental Panel for Human Made Global Warming. And look at the vid (link) I posted about the "authors" of the IPCC fourth report.

 

[Foxfyre]

55 million years ago? You must be joking. The seabed there wasn't even at the pole 55 million years ago. Ever heard of plate tectonics?

We are pouring 8 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. Half the North Pole has melted in just 50 years. This is no joke.

Fifty years isn't even half a blink in the grand scheme of things on Earth. Five thousand years is barely a blink and whether you like it or not, the Arctic was ice free 55 million years ago and has been more ice free than it is now numerous times and even NASA doesn't think the current ice melt is due to AGW or global warming:

October, 2007--Assume for a moment that a new study by NASA proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that manmade global warming was indeed responsible for the recent ice melts in the Arctic. Think media would have reported it?

In reality, that's a bit of a trick question, for in the past several weeks, television newscasts, papers, and magazines have been filled with hysterical assertions about decreasing Arctic ice levels destined to cause imminent flooding to coastal regions around the world.

As such, it certainly was no surprise when NASA released a report Monday claiming "the rapid decline in winter perennial ice the past two years was caused by unusual winds," virtually no media outlets shared the information with the citizenry, and those that did still blamed the melting ice on - you guessed it - global warming.
Unusual Winds Caused Arctic Ice Melts, Not Global Warming | NewsBusters.org

I happen to love storms. When a really promising cloud comes up, even though I do not hope for lives to be endangered or property destroyed, I eagerly anticipate the charged air, lightning, thunder, and rain pounding on the roof. If the cloud doesn't meet expectations I am disappointed.

Is that the phenomenon at work here? Some of you people are so desperate for us to be in global crisis, you don't want to see any evidence that even suggests that all is quite well?

 

[Chris]

IPCC....Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change...Not Intergovernmental Panel for Human Made Global Warming. And look at the vid (link) I posted about the "authors" of the IPCC fourth report.

Attacking the hockey stick graph. Here's a graph for you..

 

[Chris]

Fifty years isn't even half a blink in the grand scheme of things on Earth. Five thousand years is barely a blink and whether you like it or not, the Arctic was ice free 55 million years ago and has been more ice free than it is now numerous times and even NASA doesn't think the current ice melt is due to AGW or global warming:



I happen to love storms. When a really promising cloud comes up, even though I do not hope for lives to be endangered or property destroyed, I eagerly anticipate the charged air, lightning, thunder, and rain pounding on the roof. If the cloud doesn't meet expectations I am disappointed.

Is that the phenomenon at work here? Some of you people are so desperate for us to be in global crisis, you don't want to see any evidence that even suggests that all is quite well?

Why do you lie about NASA?

May 15, 2008
NASA Team Pinpoints Human Causes of Global Warming
Human-caused climate change has impacted a wide range of Earth's natural systems, from permafrost thawing to plants blooming earlier across Europe to lakes declining in productivity in Africa.

Cynthia Rosenzweig of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Science in New York and scientists at 10 other institutions have linked physical and biological impacts since 1970 with rises in temperatures during that period, including changes to physical systems, such as glaciers shrinking, permafrost melting, and lakes and rivers warming. Impacts also included changes to biological systems, such as leaves unfolding and flowers blooming earlier in the spring, birds arriving earlier during migration periods, and ranges of plant and animal species moving toward the poles and higher in elevation. In aquatic environments such as oceans, lakes, and rivers, plankton and fish are shifting from cold-adapted to warm-adapted communities.

"This is the first study to link global temperature data sets, climate model results, and observed changes in a broad range of physical and biological systems to show the link between humans, climate, and impacts," said Rosenzweig, lead author of the study.

Rosenzweig and colleagues also found that the link between human-caused climate change and observed impacts on Earth holds true at the scale of individual continents, particularly in North America, Europe, and Asia.

Photograph of a forest When permafrost melts, the layer of loose soil deepens and trees lose their foundations and tip over. Similar impacts across Earth are likely due to human-caused climate change.

To arrive at the link, the authors built and analyzed a database of more than 29,000 data series pertaining to observed impacts on Earth's natural systems, collected from about 80 studies each with at least 20 years of records between 1970 and 2004.

The team conducted a "joint attribution" study in which they showed, first, that at the global scale, about 90 percent of observed changes in diverse physical and biological systems are consistent with warming. Other driving forces, such as land use change from forest to agriculture, were ruled out as having significant influence on the observed impacts.

Next, the scientists conducted statistical tests and found that the spatial patterns of observed impacts closely match temperature trends across the globe, to a degree beyond what can be attributed to natural variability. So, the team concluded that observed global-scale impacts are very likely due to human-caused warming.

"Humans are influencing climate through increasing greenhouse gas emissions and the warming is causing impacts on physical and biological systems that are now attributable at the global scale and in North America, Europe, and Asia," said Rosenzweig.

An unexpected consequence of rising temperatures may be its effect on long-dead prehistoric life.

For thousands of years animal waste, and other organic matter left behind on the Arctic tundra, have been sealed off from the environment by permafrost. Now climate change is melting the permafrost and freeing mass quantities of prehistoric “ooze” from its state of suspended animation.

Russian scientist, Sergei Zimov, has been studying climate change in Russia's Arctic for 30 years now. He is worried that as this organic matter becomes exposed to the air it will drastically accelerate global warming predictions even beyond some of the most pessimistic forecasts.

"This will lead to a type of global warming which will be impossible to stop," he said.

According to Zimov, when the organic matter left behind by mammoths and other wildlife is exposed to the air by the thawing permafrost, microbes that have been dormant for thousands of years will spring back into action. They’ll begin once again to emit carbon dioxide and methane gas as a by-product. Zimov says thought the microbes are tiny, they will start emitting these gases in enormous quantities simply because there will be a lot of them.

Yakutia is a region in the north-eastern corner of Siberia, where a belt of permafrost contains the mammoth-era soil. It covers an area roughly the size of France and Germany combined. There is even more of it elsewhere in Siberia.

"The deposits of organic matter in these soils are so gigantic that they dwarf global oil reserves," Zimov said. U.S. government statistics show mankind emits about 7 billion tons of carbon a year."Permafrost areas hold 500 billion tons of carbon, which can fast turn into greenhouse gases," Zimov added. "If you don't stop emissions of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere ... the Kyoto Protocol (an international pact aimed at reducing greenhouse emissions) will seem like childish prattle."

On other continents, including Africa, South America, and Australia, documentation of observed changes in physical and biological systems is still sparse despite warming trends attributable to human causes. The authors concluded that environmental systems on these continents need additional research, especially in tropical and subtropical areas where there is a lack of impact data and published studies.

The study, published May 15 in the journal Nature, concludes that human-caused warming is resulting in a broad range of impacts across the globe.

 

[Foxfyre]

So, Kirk, you are unimpressed with NASA data disputing global warming as the cause of melting Arctic ice but cite the Goddard Institute as the only authority? James Hanson of the Goddard Institute and his hand picked group are the biggest NUTs of all when it comes to global warming alarmism; I could cite dozens of experts who strongly disagree with him and them, but since you don't seem to be interested in anything other than what suits your obsession on this, I won't bother. Do have a nice day, however.

 

[Chris]

So, Kirk, you are unimpressed with NASA data disputing global warming as the cause of melting Arctic ice but cite the Goddard Institute as the only authority? James Hanson of the Goddard Institute and his hand picked group are the biggest NUTs of all when it comes to global warming alarmism; I could cite dozens of experts who strongly disagree with him and them, but since you don't seem to be interested in anything other than what suits your obsession on this, I won't bother. Do have a nice day, however.

What? No Exxon supported scientific studies?

The North Pole is melting. There is no dispute about that. Soon it will be gone completely. I wonder what made it melt so quickly?

 

[AllieBaba]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE
IT'S OUR FAULT, WE MUST FEEL BAD NOW! IT'S OUR FAULT, WE MUST FEEL BAD NOW! QUICK SELF-FLAGELLATE!

Fricking spastics.

 

[editec]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE
IT'S OUR FAULT, WE MUST FEEL BAD NOW! IT'S OUR FAULT, WE MUST FEEL BAD NOW! QUICK SELF-FLAGELLATE!

Fricking spastics.

No dipshit.

The sky isn't falling.

The ice cap is melting.

Do try to keep up.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't have to keep up. This same panicked shit has been circulating since the dawn of time. There's always a group of apologetic, neurotic, self-hating people who believe neither they nor anybody else should be on this planet, and who believe that the planet is going to crash and burn at any second, and it will all be our fault.

I'm not sure the North Pole has even been iced over every year this century. Does anybody bother to actually look into this information before they take it and run shrieking down the street?

 

[BrianH]

Attacking the hockey stick graph. Here's a graph for you..

How does your graph explain prolonged snow storms in May? Ask some posters on this board when their last snowfall was. Not to mention about 4 years ago it snowed 12 inches on the Texas coast. All you're saying is that there's more CO2 in the atmosphere, no one is arguing that. But HUMANS ARE NOT CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING. Ask your buddy AL Gore why he flew his private jet to get his Nobel Peace prize. He should have jet-pooled to save the planet.

And you still fail to address the vid I posted. The IPCC has a fourth report that conveniently leaves out their ever so FAMOUS hockey-stick graph with no mention of where it went. THey simply abandoned it because it left out KEY information. Many scientist resigned because of it and asked their names to be taken off the report. Watch the CLIP...

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=zfafW_3oJ3Q&feature=related]YouTube - The IPCC removes the Hockey stick[/ame]

 

[Charles_Main]

You people are so retarded

 

[BrianH]

You people are so retarded

So since you're now officially apart of this thread, doesn't that include you as well? (j/k)

 

[jreeves]

The group you quoted is funded by Exxon....

On it's website Sherwood B. Idso writes that "our typical response is that we never discuss our funding. Why? Because we believe that ideas about the way the world of nature operates should stand or fall on their own merits, irrespective of the source of support for the person or organization that produces them ... It is self-evident, for example, that one need not know from whence a person's or organization's funding comes in order to evaluate the reasonableness of what they say, if - and this is a very important qualification - one carefully studies the writings of people on both sides of the issue."[2]

The Center states on its website that it "accepts corporate, foundation and individual donations" and that "all donations are kept confidential".[3]

Sherwood Idso confirmed that Exxon "made some donations to us a few times in the past" but attributed this to the fact that "they probably liked what we typically had to say about the issue. But what we had to say then, and what we have to say now, came not, and comes not, from them or any other organization or person."[2]

ExxonMobil's 2001 list of groups it funded listed a $10,000 contribution to the CSCDGC in 2001. Center for Science in the Public Interest, "Center for the study of carbon dioxide and global change", Integrity in Science, undated, accessed March 2004. [4]

StopExxon.org reports CSCDGC has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005 comprising: [5]

1998: $10,000
2000: $15,000
2003: $40,000
2005: $25,000

LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO.....

Wonder who would have more credibility? StopExxon.org(which has a adversial name to begin with) or a leading scientist studying the effects of carbon dioxide? You do realize, humans breathing is also causing global warming correct. Every time you breathe out you expel carbon dioxide from your lungs.
I guess Dr. Ballings is fine huh, since you didn't try to smear his name. Well he concludes the same thing as Idso. So go to foolthefoolsowecanlineourpockets.org and find some attempted smears on him too as well.

 

[Chris]

LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO.....

Wonder who would have more credibility? StopExxon.org(which has a adversial name to begin with) or a leading scientist studying the effects of carbon dioxide? You do realize, humans breathing is also causing global warming correct. Every time you breathe out you expel carbon dioxide from your lungs.
I guess Dr. Ballings is fine huh, since you didn't try to smear his name. Well he concludes the same thing as Idso. So go to foolthefoolsowecanlineourpockets.org and find some attempted smears on him too as well.

Smears? The guy worked for the Western Fuels Association...

"The Center has since tried to distance itself from the Western Fuels Association, however, the Center is run by Keith and Craig Idso, along with their father, Sherwood. Both Idso brothers have been on the Western Fuels payroll at one time or another. Keith Idso, then a doctoral candidate at the University of Arizona, was a paid expert witness for Western Fuels Association at a 1995 Minnesota Public Utilities commission hearing in St. Paul, MN, along with MIT's Richard Lindzen, Patrick Michaels, and Robert Balling (The Heat is On). According to news from Basin Electr ic, a Western Fuels Association member, Craig Idso produced a report, "The Greening of Planet Earth." Its Progression from Hypothesis to Theory," in January 1998 for the Western Fuels Association (Basin Electric Latest News no date given)."

 

[Chris]

How does your graph explain prolonged snow storms in May? Ask some posters on this board when their last snowfall was. Not to mention about 4 years ago it snowed 12 inches on the Texas coast. All you're saying is that there's more CO2 in the atmosphere, no one is arguing that. But HUMANS ARE NOT CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING. Ask your buddy AL Gore why he flew his private jet to get his Nobel Peace prize. He should have jet-pooled to save the planet.

And you still fail to address the vid I posted. The IPCC has a fourth report that conveniently leaves out their ever so FAMOUS hockey-stick graph with no mention of where it went. THey simply abandoned it because it left out KEY information. Many scientist resigned because of it and asked their names to be taken off the report. Watch the CLIP...

YouTube - The IPCC removes the Hockey stick

That's all you have is that they used a misleading graph? The facts are still the same. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by one third in the last 200 years. We are pumping 8 billion metric tons of CO2 into the air every year. We are using the earth's atmophere as a big lab experiment.

 

[jreeves]

Smears? The guy worked for the Western Fuels Association...

"The Center has since tried to distance itself from the Western Fuels Association, however, the Center is run by Keith and Craig Idso, along with their father, Sherwood. Both Idso brothers have been on the Western Fuels payroll at one time or another. Keith Idso, then a doctoral candidate at the University of Arizona, was a paid expert witness for Western Fuels Association at a 1995 Minnesota Public Utilities commission hearing in St. Paul, MN, along with MIT's Richard Lindzen, Patrick Michaels, and Robert Balling (The Heat is On). According to news from Basin Electr ic, a Western Fuels Association member, Craig Idso produced a report, "The Greening of Planet Earth." Its Progression from Hypothesis to Theory," in January 1998 for the Western Fuels Association (Basin Electric Latest News no date given)."

Your pushing the global warming myth is akin to my daughter stating she knows Santa exists.

First you state that wildfires are on the rise....I proved that one false.

Then you state, droughts are on the rise.....I proved that one false.

Then you state that CO2 is causing detriment to the enviroment....I proved that one false.

You use information from some StopExxon.org website without actually providing links to your information. I wonder why?

Lmao...

 

[BrianH]

That's all you have is that they used a misleading graph? The facts are still the same. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by one third in the last 200 years. We are pumping 8 billion metric tons of CO2 into the air every year. We are using the earth's atmophere as a big lab experiment.

You are saying that CO2 is causing global warming, when even highly qualified scientist aren't even sure. There are just as many scientist that debate AGW than support it. What I do have, is a lack of credibility of the IPCC...which is supported by numerous scientist who say that information was manipulated to fit an agenda. And that many scientists who asked to be taken off of the IPCC 4th report were not, and were included in the supposed 500 top scientist crap. The report also excluded many key statements by scientists that specifcally say that no information even supports man-made global warming, or supports that green-house gases (notable CO2) is the cause. These things were conveniently left out. WATER VAPOR is more of a green house gas than CO2... And the sun has more to do with global warming than CO2. CO2 from humans are not causing our other planets to warm also. No matter how much you would wish to be so.

 

[politicsezine]

I saw on the news recently that it was 28 degrees C in Nunavut... meanwhile the temperature in Toronto was only 25. If Canada's arctic is getting so hot... wouldn't it make a good place to vacation?