The next time somebody says "Happy Holidays"...

[konradv]

I love Christmas cause it never fails to get thre asshole atheist libtards progressives in the seasonal hate mode over a man who promoted P E A C E! Ain't that a hoot?

Yeah, but who always starts these whiny Xmas threads? You're such a child!

 

[WillowTree]

I love Christmas cause it never fails to get thre asshole atheist libtards progressives in the seasonal hate mode over a man who promoted P E A C E! Ain't that a hoot?

Yeah, but who always starts these whiny Xmas threads? You're such a child!

I didn't start it.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

While you're at it, why don't you tell us the origin of the term "strawman" as well.

Is that sort of like your user icon? Christian Bale, Jewish Bale and Muslim Bale? LOL! And, by the way, that's a damn funny icon.

 

[Glensather]

Man I feel bad for you guys, having to deal with this.
I'm fortunate in that in my town the majority are Christians, and thus, celebrate Christmas. But there are 2 Jewish families that live here, and every year I tell them "Happy Hanukkah" when they come by my work.

If I did live in a major metropolitan area, though, I would use the phrase "Happy Holidays" so I wouldn't exclude anyone. December has a lot going for it when it comes to holidays, and I respect people's right to enjoy their preferred religion's holy day.

Random question, slightly off-topic:
Christians use December 25th to celebrate Jesus' birth. Although everyone now knows about how the holiday itself is composed of several different holidays, do you think that if we somehow found out that Jesus was born on, say, August 21st, Christians would lobby to move Christmas to that day?

I think that they would, and that they would have every right to, especially.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

Happy Holidays isn't about being non-religious, you fucking idiot... it's about acknowledging more than one religious holiday during this season, some of which are even celebrated secularly.

Oh don't give us this crap. Playing coy isn't going to help.

If you're one of those fucking bitches like my dad's wife who goes APESHIT if somebody says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, then you have some fucking problems.

Someone wishes me Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, I'll tell them to go and shove a pinecone up their ass. And, that's no problem at all.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Man I feel bad for you guys, having to deal with this.
I'm fortunate in that in my town the majority are Christians, and thus, celebrate Christmas. But there are 2 Jewish families that live here, and every year I tell them "Happy Hanukkah" when they come by my work.

If I did live in a major metropolitan area, though, I would use the phrase "Happy Holidays" so I wouldn't exclude anyone. December has a lot going for it when it comes to holidays, and I respect people's right to enjoy their preferred religion's holy day.

Random question, slightly off-topic:
Christians use December 25th to celebrate Jesus' birth. Although everyone now knows about how the holiday itself is composed of several different holidays, do you think that if we somehow found out that Jesus was born on, say, August 21st, Christians would lobby to move Christmas to that day?

I think that they would, and that they would have every right to, especially.

How 'bout, rather than Happy Holidays, it just be "Happy...whatever the hell it is you celebrate"?

And, moving Christmas to August 21st? Hey, that would be alright. But, it would be better if it were about July 21st, right about in the middle of summer.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Happy Holidays isn't about being non-religious, you fucking idiot... it's about acknowledging more than one religious holiday during this season, some of which are even celebrated secularly.

If you're one of those fucking bitches like my dad's wife who goes APESHIT if somebody says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, then you have some fucking problems.

You sure have a big mouth lefty hiding behind a computer. It's about majority rule and the majority of people are Christians in the U.S.

Now go fuck yourself punk.

LOL wow, your head's wedged pretty far up your ass. It's got fuck-all to do with lefty/righty majority anything. It's about respect for other people and other cultures. In case you haven't noticed, America is a melting pot of everyone.

Fuck respecting other cultures. This is the United States of America and they should respect OUR culture. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. They want their own culture, they can go back to wherever the hell it is/was they came from. There were cultures, and may still even be cultures, which engaged in human sacrifice. Shall we respect that culture...too?

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

It wasn't the 'PC crowd' that "butthurt over it"... it was Americans of all colors, creeds, religions, nationals, atheists, that were and are concerned about all Americans. It's called 'We the people'.

And Dec 25th is called Christmas.

And Yule.

If I take a dump on Christmas...is it a Yule..........log?

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

It wasn't the 'PC crowd' that "butthurt over it"... it was Americans of all colors, creeds, religions, nationals, atheists, that were and are concerned about all Americans. It's called 'We the people'.

And Dec 25th is called Christmas.

By the Pagans

The Pagans did not call it "Christmas". It was called "Saturnalia".

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Is Santa somewhere in that pic.... If so, he is one lucky SOB!

Yeah, he's in the chair, saying, "YEEEAAAHHHHH....MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS! HO HO HO HO HO!!!!!!!"

 

[Luissa]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

Or How about your remind a right wing loon that when they get pissed off someone said Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

Thank you for proving people are stupid when they make a big deal about saying Happy Holidays.

 

[Rinata]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

I may start saying "happy holidays" since religious fanatics take it as an insult. I say merry Christmas out of habit but getting reactionary assholes riled up over dumb shit is a gift that keeps on giving.

Nobody has ever become upset when I said, "Merry Christmas". But maybe it's because we are not as uptight in SoCal, thank God!!

 

[Rinata]

Happy Holidays isn't about being non-religious, you fucking idiot... it's about acknowledging more than one religious holiday during this season, some of which are even celebrated secularly.

If you're one of those fucking bitches like my dad's wife who goes APESHIT if somebody says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, then you have some fucking problems.

You sure have a big mouth lefty hiding behind a computer. It's about majority rule and the majority of people are Christians in the U.S.

Now go fuck yourself punk.

LOL wow, your head's wedged pretty far up your ass. It's got fuck-all to do with lefty/righty majority anything. It's about respect for other people and other cultures. In case you haven't noticed, America is a melting pot of everyone.

 

[there4eyeM]

It is incredible that people think words have some kind of meaning outside the context of communication. Being symbols, they mean what the speaker intends and what the 'hearer' understands. They have no independent existence.

 

[Againsheila]

I love Christmas cause it never fails to get thre asshole atheist libtards progressives in the seasonal hate mode over a man who promoted P E A C E! Ain't that a hoot?

Well this atheist doesn't hate christmas. For me it is a constant source of amusement seeing all these people who mostly cannot afford it get suckered into feeling guilty if they don't buy a bunch of overpriced crap for people they wouldn't spend any money on at all if it were not for this fake holiday. Most of em charge this shit on credit cards and end up spending months paying it off. Good times!

What really pisses you off is seeing them enjoy themselves. Sucks to be ewe.

You know, this year, like most, is a practical Christmas. Pajamas, thermal underwear, etc. And this is for adults. As children, one of my kids favorite Christmas present was the box the Fridge came in. We decorated it up of course. Yeah, we had a couple of Christmases where we spent too much, but it didn't go on credit cards. Believe it or not, the big ticket items, like computers were bought for school, not for Christmas. My youngest, low functioning autism actually got an old laptop for Christmas a couple of years ago with some appropriate software, you know, children's books that read to him, a paint program etc. My sister and her family don't buy gifts for each other anymore, only for the grand kids. Her kids and she and her husband put some money together and give it to a local shelter.

I've known a lot of people who celebrate Christmas who aren't Christians. And of course, now seems to be the time for this true story:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJi41RWaTCs]Christmas in the Trenches - written and performed by John McCutcheon - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

It wasn't the 'PC crowd' that "butthurt over it"... it was Americans of all colors, creeds, religions, nationals, atheists, that were and are concerned about all Americans. It's called 'We the people'.

And Dec 25th is called Christmas.

By the Pagans

Pagan Origin

In 1990, the Solon, Ohio (a Cleveland suburb) school board banned all nativity and other Christmas scenes on any school property because they felt it violated the separation of church and state. They were challenged in court when outraged parents opposed them, feeling that Christmas was being stolen from their children and the community. The board lost the case! The citizenry had contended that Christmas was a worldwide tradition that was not part of, and transcended, religion. It was deemed to be secular -- a part of virtually all cultures worldwide.

[So, changing the name "Christmas" isn't even necessary in the first place.]

The court decision affirmed that Christmas has no Christian roots! However, the court's opinion also noted that Bible reading and prayer obviously are associated with Christianity --a remarkable admission! The court concluded that Christmas-keeping and manger scenes could remain because they are not really part of either Christianity or religion -- but prayer and Bible reading, which are, must remain excluded from schools!

Nearly all aspects of Christmas observance have their roots in Roman custom and religion. Consider the following admission from a large American newspaper (The Buffalo News, Nov. 22, 1984): "The earliest reference to Christmas being marked on Dec. 25 comes from the second century after Jesus' birth. It is considered likely the first Christmas celebrations were in reaction to the Roman Saturnalia, a harvest festival that marked the winter solstice -- the return of the sun -- and honored Saturn, the god of sowing. Saturnalia was a rowdy time, much opposed by the more austere leaders among the still-minority Christian sect. Christmas developed, one scholar says, as a means of replacing worship of the sun with worship of the Son. By 529 A.D., after Christianity had become the official state religion of the Roman Empire, Emperor Justinian made Christmas a civic holiday. The celebration of Christmas reached its peak -- some would say its worst moments -- in the medieval period when it became a time for conspicuous consumption and unequaled revelry."

Consider these quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under "Christmas": "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church...The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt." Further, "Pagan customs centring round the January calends gravitated to Christmas." Under "Natal Day," Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, "...In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world" (emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 edition, adds, "Christmas...was not observed in the first centuries of the Christian church, since the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth...a feast was established in memory of this event [Christ's birth] in the 4th century. In the 5th century the Western church ordered the feast to be celebrated on the day of the Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and at the close of the Saturnalia, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed."

There is no mistaking the ORIGIN of the modern Christmas celebration. Many additional sources could be cited and we will return to this later. Let's begin to tie some other facts together.

It was 300 years after Christ before the Roman church kept Christmas, and not until the fifth century that it was mandated to be kept throughout the empire as an official festival honoring "Christ."

Can Christ be Honored by Christmas?

The most common justification that one will hear regarding Christmas is that people have replaced old pagan customs and intents by asserting that they are now "focusing on Christ." I have heard many say that they are "honoring Christ" in their Christmas-keeping. The problem is that God does not say this is acceptable to Him! Actually, He plainly commands against it! Keeping Christmas dishonors Christ! He considers everything about it to be an abomination! We will soon see why.

Christ said, "But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines and the commandments of men" (Matt. 15:9). Christmas is not a command of God -- it is a tradition of men. Christ continued, "Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition" (Mark 7:9). Every year, throughout the world, on December 25th, hundreds of millions do just that!

We will see that God plainly commands, "Follow not the way of the heathen." But most people do not fear God, and He allows them to make their own decisions. Human beings are free moral agents -- free to obey or disobey God! But woe to those who ignore the plain Word of God!

[I disagree with the writer's sentiment in these last three paragraphs above but, that's for a different debate]

Was Christ Born on December 25th?

Christ was born in the fall of the year. Many have mistakenly believed He was born around the beginning of winter -- December 25th! They are wrong! Notice the Adam Clarke Commentary, volume 5, page 370, New York edition: "It was custom among Jews to send out their sheep to the deserts about the Passover [early spring], and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain." The first rains began in early-to-mid fall. Continuing with the same quote: "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As...the first rain began early in the month of March-esvan, which answers to part of our October and November [begins sometime in October], we find that the sheep are kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flock, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact...See the quotations from the Talmudists in Lightfoot."

[Well, I don't think it should be given up at all. We can celebrate any time we damn well choose. But, in my opinion, Christmas would be better in the middle of summer.]

Luke 2:8 explains that when Christ was born, "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Note that they were "abiding" in the field. This never happened in December. Both Ezra 10:9-13 and the Song of Solomon 2:11 show that winter was the rainy season and shepherds could not stay on cold, open fields at night.

[Not sure, but this guy kind of strikes me as possibly confusing seasons in America with those of the region where Christ was but, that is also fodder for another debate as well, as well as further investigation.]

Numerous encyclopedias plainly state that Christ was not born on December 25th! The Catholic Encyclopedia directly confirms this. In all likelihood, Christ was born in the fall! A lengthy technical explanation would prove this point.

Since we now know that December 25th was nowhere near Christ's actual birthdate, where did the festival associated with this date come from?

Now read this quote under "Christmas": "In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rights when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain, and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian" (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Edit. Vol. II, p. 903).

A final quote about the selection of December 25th as the birthdate of Christ is necessary. Note an article in The Toronto Star, December 1984, by Alan Edmonds, entitled, "We owe a lot to Druids, Dutch": "The Reformation cast a blight on Christmas. By then, of course, clever ecclesiastical politicians had adopted the Pagan mid-winter festival as the alleged birthdate of Jesus, of Nazareth, and thrown in a few other Pagan goodies to make their takeover more palatable."

December 25th was not selected because it was the birth of Christ or because it was even near it. It was selected because it coincided with the idolatrous pagan festival Saturnalia -- and this celebration must be carefully examined. In any event, we do not know the exact date of Christ's birth. While God certainly could have made it known, He chose to hid it from the world's eyes!

Who Was Saturn?

Previous quotes introduced the subject of the Saturnalia. Let's carefully study just exactly who Saturn was. Consider the following quote from another large American newspaper, The Democrat and Chronicle, Rochester, New York, December 1984: "The Roman festival of Saturnalia, Dec. 17-24, moved citizens to decorate their homes with greens and lights and give gifts to children and the poor. The Dec. 25 festival of natalis solis invicti, the birth of the unconquered sun, was decreed by the emperor Aurelian in A.D. 274 as a Winter Solstice celebration, and sometime (later)...was Christianized as a date to celebrate the birth of the Son of Light."

Dr. William Gutsch, chairman of the American Museum of Natural History -- Hayden Planetarium, further confirmed the original name of Christmas with this quote on December 18, 1989, in a Westchester, New York, newspaper, The Reporter Dispatch:

"The early Romans were not celebrating Christmas but rather a pagan feast called the Saturnalia. It occurred each year around the beginning of winter, or the winter solstice. This was the time when the sun had taken its lowest path across the sky and the days were beginning to lengthen, thus assuring another season of growth.

"If many of the trappings of the Saturnalia, however, seem to parallel what so many of us do today, we can see where we borrowed...our holiday traditions. And indeed, it has been suggested that while Christ was most likely not born in late December, the early Christians -- then still an outlawed sect -- moved Christmas to the time of the Saturnalia to draw as little attention as possible to themselves while they celebrated their own holiday."

The Saturnalia, of course, celebrated Saturn -- the fire god. Saturn was the god of sowing (planting) because heat from the sun was required to allow for planting and growth of crops. He was also worshipped in this dead-of-winter festival so that he would come back (he was the "sun") and warm the earth again so that spring planting could occur. The planet Saturn was later named after him because, among all of the planets, with its rings and bright red color, it best represented the god of fire!

Virtually every civilization has a fire/sun god. The Egyptians (and sometimes Romans) called him Vulcan. The Greeks named him Kronos, as did the Phoenicians -- but they also called him Saturn. The Babylonians called him Tammuz (as Nimrod, resurrected in the person of his son), Molech or Baal (as did the Druids). These were all simply the various names for Nimrod. Nimrod was considered the father of all the Babylonian gods.

Child Sacrifice

Notice this horrible practice associated with the worship of the fire god (Nimrod, Saturn, Kronos, Molech and Baal) in the following quote from The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop, page 231:

"Now, this is in exact accordance with the character of the Great Head of the system of fire-worship. Nimrod, as the representative of the devouring fire to which human victims, and especially children, were offered in sacrifice, was regarded as the great child-devourer...he was, of course, the actual father of all the Babylonian gods; and, therefore, in the character he was afterwards universally regarded. As the Father of the gods, he was, as we have seen, called Kronos; and every one knows that the classical story of Kronos was just this, that, 'he devoured his sons as soon as they were born.' (Lempriere Classical Dictionary, 'Saturn.')...This legend has a further and deeper meaning; but, as applied to Nimrod, or 'The Horned One,' it just refers to the fact, that, as the representative of Moloch or Baal, infants were the most acceptable offerings at his altar. We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity. 'The Phoenicians," says Eusebius, 'every year sacrificed their beloved and only-begotten children to Kronos or Saturn.'"

But why was human sacrifice such a key to the worship of this terrible god? What possible good could human beings think they saw in slaughtering their own children? Continuing: "...he who approached the fire would receive a light from divinity" and "through divine fire all the stains produced by generations could be purged away." Therefore, "children were made to pass through the fire unto Molech" (Jer. 32:35).

More can be read on this here:

The True Origin of Christmas

 

[bayoubill]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

Jesus said we should be nice to one another...

I 'spect he wouldn't like the tone of your post...

 

[RosieS]

Happy Mithra's Birthday!

Regards from Rosie

 

[Colin]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

Happy Holidays isn't about being non-religious, you fucking idiot... it's about acknowledging more than one religious holiday during this season, some of which are even celebrated secularly.

If you're one of those fucking bitches like my dad's wife who goes APESHIT if somebody says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, then you have some fucking problems.

You sure have a big mouth lefty hiding behind a computer. It's about majority rule and the majority of people are Christians in the U.S.

Now go fuck yourself punk.

Merry syphilis and a happy gonorreah.

 

[JoeB131]

Run this past them on the origin of the word:

1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from old English haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning "religious festival."

Here they think they're being all clever and non-religious...

Wait until lefties find out about this!

Why are you the one getting upset about the whole "Happy Holidays" thing?

Frankly, I enjoy the hell out of Christmas, watching my little nieces and nephews open their presents. And I don't spend one minute thinking about Jesus during it.