The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[MartyNYC]

Article 30 of the Treaty applies to the assignment of "Nationality" to the inhabitance of the territories. The obligation to the assignment of nationality was met by the creation of the 1925 Citizenship Law.

The entire purpose of this clause had to do with the elimination of the possibility of "Stateless People." It had nothing to do with the transfer of territory.

So they make Palestinians citizens of a place that is not a state.


You are too funny.

Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews. Historically, Jews are palestinians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And of course you conveniently leave out the fact that by that time Palestine was already vested with sovereignty of the Jewish Nation, and defined thus, from day one.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

I know, selective vision would be more convenient.

And yet before the Treaty of Lausanne,
the designation of that territory was already defined by the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.

British Mandate, nicknamed palestine, was established at the San Remo Conference to implement the Balfour Declaration resulting in Israeli statehood, as stated in the actual mandate text. No mention of the creation of a state of palestine or a palestinian state. No palestinian nation existed.

Where do they mention state, Israel or exclusive sovereignty.

Links with quotes please.

 

[MartyNYC]

And of course you conveniently leave out the fact that by that time Palestine was already vested with sovereignty of the Jewish Nation, and defined thus, from day one.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

I know, selective vision would be more convenient.

And yet before the Treaty of Lausanne,
the designation of that territory was already defined by the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.

British Mandate, nicknamed palestine, was established at the San Remo Conference to implement the Balfour Declaration resulting in Israeli statehood, as stated in the actual mandate text. No mention of the creation of a state of palestine or a palestinian state. No palestinian nation existed.

Where do they mention state, Israel or exclusive sovereignty.

Links with quotes please.

Jewish National Home appears prominently in the British Mandate, nicknamed palestine. There wasn’t a palestine in the Ottoman Empire.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You often claim that I said something, → that I really did not say at all!

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.​

​

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

​

You always claim that military power negates rights.

(COMMENT)

I don't think I have ever maintained military power does anything relative to "rights." In our discussions of late, especially in my Posting #636, I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once. Article 4 of the 1933 Montevideo Convention has nothing at all to do with the "Right to Sovereignty." In fact, "sovereignty" is not addressed even once as a right or duty in the Convention; except externally as a reservation by the US.

Military Power becomes a strength in terms of the defense of territorial integrity. A nation that cannot maintain territorial integrity and cannot exercise the responsibilities and duties of government authority over that territory, CAN NOT claim to have the Right of Sovereignty in that territory. But over the years, I have recognized that you tend to confuse what the meaning of having a "RIGHT" conveys.

I have the "Right" to earn a million dollars. No one is "Obligated" to pay me a million dollars. You have the "right" to maintain a million dollars. But no one is "obligated" to protect your million dollars without due compensation.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

The same is true of territory. If the Arab Palestinians have territory in which they can demonstrate they exercise the responsibilities and duties of government authority over, they can claim "sovereignty." Once they are a sovereign nation, they are juridically equal (among other nations), enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: By George, I think you have it (almost).

Article 30 of the Treaty applies to the assignment of "Nationality" to the inhabitance of the territories. The obligation to the assignment of nationality was met by the creation of the 1925 Citizenship Law.

The entire purpose of this clause had to do with the elimination of the possibility of "Stateless People." It had nothing to do with the transfer of territory.

So they make Palestinians citizens of a place that is not a state.


You are too funny.

(COMMENT)

Yes, I agree. It takes a bit of gray matter exercise to get this much of an understanding.

(Paraphrasing on an excerpt from "Memorandum "A" of A/AC.21/UK/42 TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE” 25 February 1948)

Palestine was a legal entity but was NOT a sovereign state. Palestine was a territory administered under Mandate by His Majesty Government (United Kingdom), who was entirely responsible for both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs during the period June 1920 to May 1948.​

Remember, the Palestine Government was a territory administered under Mandate by the Sovereign State of the United Kingdom. This was recognized by the Permanent Court of International Justice / International Court of Justice:

A05 Mavrommatis Jerusalem Concessions ​

Judgment of 26 March 1925 (including the text of the declaration of M. Altamira) ​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

And of course you conveniently leave out the fact that by that time Palestine was already vested with sovereignty of the Jewish Nation, and defined thus, from day one.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

I know, selective vision would be more convenient.

And yet before the Treaty of Lausanne,
the designation of that territory was already defined by the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.

British Mandate, nicknamed palestine, was established at the San Remo Conference to implement the Balfour Declaration resulting in Israeli statehood, as stated in the actual mandate text. No mention of the creation of a state of palestine or a palestinian state. No palestinian nation existed.

Where do they mention state, Israel or exclusive sovereignty.

Links with quotes please.

Jewish National Home appears prominently in the British Mandate, nicknamed palestine. There wasn’t a palestine in the Ottoman Empire.

Nice duck.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once.

You always do. The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

You have always approve that.

 

[Hollie]

I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once.

You always do. The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

You have always approve that.

You have that wrong. The only thing between the Pal-Arabs and their korans, delusions of Jew slaughter and some imagined caliphate are Israeli's guns. The Arab-Moslem terrorists have a perceived right to the slaughter of the Jewish people. They have that spelled out in clear terms.

The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter

avalon.law.yale.edu

Hamas Charter

www.acpr.org.il

 

[MartyNYC]

I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once.

You always do. The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

You have always approve that.

Palestine was a fictional Roman name for ancient Israel, and Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate which became modern Israel.

Jews historically are the true palestinians. Otherwise, palestinians do not exist.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The only thing between Palestinians and their Rights is the inept Arab Palestinian Government and the sheep like following → of the Arab Palestinian People. It is their government and they should be held responsible for fixing it.

I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once.

You always do. The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

(COMMENT)

Israel guns come out only when the danger of Arab Palestinian Violence is afoot. Remember, it is the Arab Palestinian Policy that:

◈◈ "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."​

Speaker at Hamas Police Graduation Ceremony:​

◈ The Sons of Palestine Were Born to Blow up Their Enemies, Die as Martyrs.​

​

You have always approve that.

(COMMENT)

As to what I → "always approve:" Anyday is a good day to kill psychopaths and terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Israel was established on outright robbery.
This is a picture of a Palestinian couple (the man in the wheelchair (Abu Samir) and his wife next to him) standing outside a building that was Abu Samir's family home in Ijzim village, Haifa, before the Nakba. The property is now inhabited by an Israeli couple who appear in the same picture.

You utterly fail to understand the context here, which is: the need for the reclamation of the Jewish homeland precisely because it was taken from the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

You always claim that military power negates rights.

Nope. The claim is that the vague, and not entirely confirmed in IL, "right" to sovereignty /= actual sovereignty. The Arab Palestinians, as a distinct people with a claimed right to self-determination, are required to fulfill certain obligations in order to achieve sovereignty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The only thing between Palestinians and their Rights is the inept Arab Palestinian Government and the sheep like following → of the Arab Palestinian People. It is their government and they should be held responsible for fixing it.

I don't believe I raised the issue of the application of "Military Power" even once.

You always do. The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

(COMMENT)

Israel guns come out only when the danger of Arab Palestinian Violence is afoot. Remember, it is the Arab Palestinian Policy that:

◈◈ "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."​

Speaker at Hamas Police Graduation Ceremony:​

◈ The Sons of Palestine Were Born to Blow up Their Enemies, Die as Martyrs.​

​

View attachment 358810​

You have always approve that.

(COMMENT)

As to what I → "always approve:" Anyday is a good day to kill psychopaths and terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your usual slime piece.

A recent case in point about Israel's guns.:

Many people in Gaza want to go back to farming their land, working their shops, picking their oranges, etc. that they have the right to do. Israel guns them down.

 

[Shusha]

The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

The only thing between Arab Palestinians and their "rights" is the acceptance of equivalent Jewish rights and peace treaties with the neighbors. A people who refuse to make agreements with their neighbors is, by definition, not capable of Statehood.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel was established on outright robbery.
This is a picture of a Palestinian couple (the man in the wheelchair (Abu Samir) and his wife next to him) standing outside a building that was Abu Samir's family home in Ijzim village, Haifa, before the Nakba. The property is now inhabited by an Israeli couple who appear in the same picture.

You utterly fail to understand the context here, which is: the need for the reclamation of the Jewish homeland precisely because it was taken from the Jewish people.

Not by the Palestinians. You need to take that up with the foreign invaders who expelled you.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

The only thing between Arab Palestinians and their "rights" is the acceptance of equivalent Jewish rights and peace treaties with the neighbors. A people who refuse to make agreements with their neighbors is, by definition, not capable of Statehood.

The Palestinians are at peace with all their neighbors.

 

[Shusha]

Israel was established on outright robbery.
This is a picture of a Palestinian couple (the man in the wheelchair (Abu Samir) and his wife next to him) standing outside a building that was Abu Samir's family home in Ijzim village, Haifa, before the Nakba. The property is now inhabited by an Israeli couple who appear in the same picture.

You utterly fail to understand the context here, which is: the need for the reclamation of the Jewish homeland precisely because it was taken from the Jewish people.

Not by the Palestinians. You need to take that up with the foreign invaders who expelled you.

Um. Yeah. So, the Arabs. Including the ones who call themselves Palestinians but differentiate themselves from others by identifying as, you know, Arabs.

 

[Shusha]

The only thing between Palestinians and their rights is Israel's guns.

The only thing between Arab Palestinians and their "rights" is the acceptance of equivalent Jewish rights and peace treaties with the neighbors. A people who refuse to make agreements with their neighbors is, by definition, not capable of Statehood.

The Palestinians are at peace with all their neighbors.

Lol. Arguable.

But you danced away from the point -- which is the requirement to take up the "rights" they claim by performing certain obligations such as acknowledging other's rights and entering into agreements with other States.

 

[Shusha]

P F Tinmore

Why is it funny to expect that sovereignty comes with responsibility as well as rights?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore

Why is it funny to expect that sovereignty comes with responsibility as well as rights?

I never said it didn't.