The New Zealand shooting is not going to stop me from criticizing Islam

FGM is not a religious practice, is not called for in any religious text of Islam.
Just one problem there....Muhammed specifically condones it and teaches someone the best way to do it in the hadiths. And many Muslims see him as the perfect human and believe his actions are perfect and correct. So, for the people who believe Islam DOES mandate it, they don't need a verse directing them to do it. Their prophet condoned it, so they must do it as well. To them, it most certainly is a religious practice.


Hey, if you are going to nit pick, every religion in its current form is insane.
 
Hey, if you are going to nit pick, every religion in its current form is insane.
That's true, even if you don't nitpick. But that doesn't make them all equivalent. Nor does it make their adherents or their literalism equivalent. So, after you have done the light work of tossing off that lazy, pedantic statement, you still have left 9n the table the differences in the religious texts themselves and the difference in the scope of fundamentalism in each religion.

Just addressing the second idea: Islam needs a reformation. You can (incorrectly) equate all religions in their depth of immoral nonsense, but you cannot equate their modernity or literalist bases.
 
Hey, if you are going to nit pick, every religion in its current form is insane.
That's true, even if you don't nitpick. But that doesn't make them all equivalent. Nor does it make their adherents or their literalism equivalent. So, after you have done the light work of tossing off that lazy, pedantic statement, you still have left 9n the table the differences in the religious texts themselves and the difference in the scope of fundamentalism in each religion.

Just addressing the second idea: Islam needs a reformation. You can (incorrectly) equate all religions in their depth of immoral nonsense, but you cannot equate their modernity or literalist bases.


I know. One can read the NT and walk away with the belief that Jesus hated and instructed the slaughter of Jews. You can read the OT and walk away with the belief that God has a problem with bacon.

If there is wisdom in those writings that would apply today, it certainly isn't literal.

I know objectively that celebrating the marriage of Mohammed to a prepubescent child is a tad more perverse than celebrating the torture and death of Jesus, but not by much.
 
One can read the NT and walk away with the belief that Jesus hated and instructed the slaughter of Jews. You can read the OT and walk away with the belief that God has a problem with bacon.
Yes and yes. But western society has benefitted from centuries of secular reformation of the type which seems to elude Muslim communities across the world. And we need to empower moderate Muslims who are willing to point at evil shit in Islam and say, "that's evil, ignore that part". This is a death sentence in most of the Muslim world today.
 
One can read the NT and walk away with the belief that Jesus hated and instructed the slaughter of Jews. You can read the OT and walk away with the belief that God has a problem with bacon.
Yes and yes. But western society has benefitted from centuries of secular reformation of the type which seems to elude Muslim communities across the world. And we need to empower moderate Muslims who are willing to point at evil shit in Islam and say, "that's evil, ignore that part". This is a death sentence in most of the Muslim world today.


I know. Most kids in my neighborhood went to church every sunday to avoid getting a beating, not because they believed that God was edible. I was just luckier.

If my head was going to get chopped off, I probably would have went too.
 
If my head was going to get chopped off, I probably would have went too.
Damn right you would have. But that isn't the state of affairs in what we like to call, "reality". So all of these people throwing themselves in front of Islam like human shields are providing cover to the people making and carrying out that threat, while also making themselves a huge obstacle to the moderate Muslims trying to reform their own religion.
 
Just one problem there....Muhammed specifically condones it and teaches someone the best way to do it in the hadiths. And many Muslims see him as the perfect human and believe his actions are perfect and correct. So, for the people who believe Islam DOES mandate it, they don't need a verse directing them to do it. Their prophet condoned it, so they must do it as well. To them, it most certainly is a religious practice.

I just slapped around another Islamophobic twat on this subject in another thread. (Or maybe it was this one, not going back to look).

No, that Hadith does not say what the Islamophobes claim it did. Also, Hadiths are not the Koran.

The reality- the practice predates Christianity and Islam, Christians practice it, and it's largely limited to North Africa.

Why do you people feel the need to LIE in order to make your points?

There are plenty of things in Islam to legitimately criticize, but you guys go with this because it sounds nasty.
 
Damn right you would have. But that isn't the state of affairs in what we like to call, "reality". So all of these people throwing themselves in front of Islam like human shields are providing cover to the people making and carrying out that threat, while also making themselves a huge obstacle to the moderate Muslims trying to reform their own religion.

The reality is, I'm an old man, and I've lived long enough to see the one way that to get away with dehumanize a people is to demonize them as "the other". We aren't at war with Islam because their belief in a sky fairy is worse than yours. ANY religion can be abused to justify horrible acts. For that matter, so can Atheism.

Our problem with the ME is that we keep invading it, and then wondering why they fight back. The drove out the British and French, and we are taking up where they left off. We prop up bad leaders and then wonder why they turn on us.

There was this great movie called "The Battle of Algiers" - where in one scene, they captured a rebel leader, and asked him why they put bombs in women's baskets. He replied "Why do you drop bombs from airplanes? We would happily trade our baskets for your planes."

Here's the thing. We can win a war against Al Qaeda or ISIL (Daesh). We can't win a war against Islam. When discussing this subject becomes a lot of Islam bashing, punctuated by things like this New Zealand guy shooting women and children and people trying to rationalize it, then you have made it that.
 
No, that Hadith does not say what the Islamophobes claim it did. Also, Hadiths are not the Koran.
It absolutely says what i just said it says. And the new testament is n9t the old testament. Saying the hadiths are not the Quran does not make them any less important to Muslims. Wear a t-shirt with mohammed's face on it in the middle East, if you don't believe me. Mohammed does not appear in the Quran. Would you then argue that devotion to Mohammed has no roots in Islamic texts? No, and what a stupid attempt by you to do such a thing now.

Praying also predates Christianity and Islam. That doesn't mean islams are not praying because of religion. So that argument is stupid and you should immediately retire it, lest you embarrass yourself.
 
Just addressing the second idea: Islam needs a reformation. You can (incorrectly) equate all religions in their depth of immoral nonsense, but you cannot equate their modernity or literalist bases.

It's not our place to say so. I could say Catholicism needs a reformation. Like stop boning Altar Boys up the ass. But since I am no longer a Catholic, it's really not my place to say. The ironic thing is that most of the fighting against the Taliban, Daesh and Al Qaeda HAS been done by other Muslims. But our idiotic policies will just create the next group of angry dipsticks and you'll blame their religion for that.

Hey, reform we can really work on. American foreign Policy. We can start by not screaming "Anti-Semite" every time someone even mildly criticizes Israel.
 
It absolutely says what i just said it says.

No it doesn't. Please put the quote out there... from a translation that doesn't come from an Islamophobic website.

Saying the hadiths are not the Quran does not make them any less important to Muslims.

They don't hold the same weight, and they are not as universally held. A better comparison would be the Catholic Catechism or Protestant texts. They aren't the scripture in main.

Kind of like the bullshit about 76 Virgins... appears nowhere in the Koran. But you guys swallow that shit whole.

Praying also predates Christianity and Islam. That doesn't mean islams are not praying because of religion. So that argument is stupid and you should immediately retire it, lest you embarrass yourself.

Uh, the stupid argument is that FGM is like praying. FGM exists in North African culture for a specific reason... if you cut off a woman's clitoris, she won't enjoy sex and will be less likely to cheat. Mummies we've recovered indicates this was common practice among the Egyptians, but I'm not out to blame Osiris for the practice, either.
 
It absolutely is, i reject that completely. It's everyone's place to opine on it.

Guess, what, if you walk into a church and tell them why their religion is stupid, you'll get the same welcome you'd get in a Mosque. Maybe they'll try to argue with you, maybe they'll kick your ass, but they'll probably just ask you to leave.

It's still not your place to tell ANYONE else what they should believe.
 
No it doesn't.
It does. No, you can look it up for yourself. To help you out, do a search for the Hadith verse used to justify FGM. Or don't. I won't lose any sleep either way.

Uh, the stupid argument is that FGM is like praying.
It is, in that the practice existed before Islam. The people who do FGM say they do it for islam. You say they don't. Obviously you are a fool to say it. Better go whine to them first, instead of to people like me who take them at their word.
 

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