The New Communism: Healthcare

PoliticalChic

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Once upon a time the cognoscenti were proud to tell all that they were communists! Proud to be on the cutting edge of societal thought, clearly ahead of everyone else. But once the horrendous nature of the ideology became apparent, it was no longer possible to wear that badge.

Then, they were liberals, then progressives…whatever incarnation served, until its predilections became known.

Now, the rebirth of the thinking that we, the proletariat, the bourgeois, must be deprived of our lives and our liberties.
The new title is Communitarian, and the new bumper sticker is ‘social justice,’ and nowhere is it more evident than in the healthcare debate.

Read their own self-description, and recognize the political babble of the 1950’s American Communists:

“Communitarianism emerged in the 1980s as a response to the limits of liberal theory and practice. Its dominant themes are that individual rights need to be balanced with social responsibilities, and that autonomous selves do not exist in isolation, but are shaped by the values and culture of communities…The critique of one-sided emphasis on rights has been key to defining communitarianism…"Rights talk" thus corrupts our political discourse, and is used to trump genuine conversation, public deliberation, and practical compromise…rights need to be seen in a more balanced framework, and that the U.S. would benefit by a temporary moratorium on the manufacture of new rights.
While a few communitarians have developed refined institutional analyses to match their critiques—one thinks of liberal-communitarian Ezekiel Emanuel's very interesting proposals on health care…”
CPN - Tools

“Another key administration figure… is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, self-described 'communitarian, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.

The shocking element is that, in the words of Democat former Colorodo Governor Dick Lamb, "the elderly have a patriotic duty to die."
 
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Well, let's see. The government has taken over the banks. They have taken over the auto industry. They have taken over the home mortgage industry. Now they are trying to take over health care. I predict that in a few months they will be trying to make it illegal to own any firearms. Then Hitler Obama will have completed his task. He wants the government to control every aspect of your life and he will not stop until that happens.
 
Well, let's see. The government has taken over the banks. They have taken over the auto industry. They have taken over the home mortgage industry. Now they are trying to take over health care. I predict that in a few months they will be trying to make it illegal to own any firearms. Then Hitler Obama will have completed his task. He wants the government to control every aspect of your life and he will not stop until that happens.

And they do such a good job, don't they.

On August 4th, 1977, that is 32 years ago, the Department of Energy was established.
It currently has 16,000 federal employees and 100,000 contract employees.
It has a budget of $24.2 billion.
Question: what was the stated reason for the establishment of the department?


Answer: TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE
ON FOREIGN OIL.
Now, based on this level of accomplishment, what are the other initiatives whe should put in the hands of the government?
 
Well, let's see. The government has taken over the banks. They have taken over the auto industry. They have taken over the home mortgage industry. Now they are trying to take over health care. I predict that in a few months they will be trying to make it illegal to own any firearms. Then Hitler Obama will have completed his task. He wants the government to control every aspect of your life and he will not stop until that happens.
Bush began the Socialization, didn't he.
 
Once upon a time the cognoscenti were proud to tell all that they were communists! Proud to be on the cutting edge of societal thought, clearly ahead of everyone else. But once the horrendous nature of the ideology became apparent, it was no longer possible to wear that badge.

Then, they were liberals, then progressives…whatever incarnation served, until its predilections became known.

Now, the rebirth of the thinking that we, the proletariat, the bourgeois, must be deprived of our lives and our liberties.
The new title is Communitarian, and the new bumper sticker is ‘social justice,’ and nowhere is it more evident than in the healthcare debate.

Read their own self-description, and recognize the political babble of the 1950’s American Communists:

“Communitarianism emerged in the 1980s as a response to the limits of liberal theory and practice. Its dominant themes are that individual rights need to be balanced with social responsibilities, and that autonomous selves do not exist in isolation, but are shaped by the values and culture of communities…The critique of one-sided emphasis on rights has been key to defining communitarianism…"Rights talk" thus corrupts our political discourse, and is used to trump genuine conversation, public deliberation, and practical compromise…rights need to be seen in a more balanced framework, and that the U.S. would benefit by a temporary moratorium on the manufacture of new rights.
While a few communitarians have developed refined institutional analyses to match their critiques—one thinks of liberal-communitarian Ezekiel Emanuel's very interesting proposals on health care…”
CPN - Tools

“Another key administration figure… is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, self-described 'communitarian, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.

The shocking element is that, in the words of Democat former Colorodo Governor Dick Lamb, "the elderly have a patriotic duty to die."
Where's a Senator Joseph McCarthy when you need him? There are [pick a number] of Communists in Congress. He denounced the whole Democratic party as traitors. Now, he's a joke.
 
Great topic Pol chic - some of us read the writing on the wall last year and some are just now recovering from their Kool Aid hangover

Isn't Acorn an association of communitarian organizers?

Man I'd love to see some of BHOs old college papers.
 
Once upon a time the cognoscenti were proud to tell all that they were communists! Proud to be on the cutting edge of societal thought, clearly ahead of everyone else. But once the horrendous nature of the ideology became apparent, it was no longer possible to wear that badge.

Then, they were liberals, then progressives…whatever incarnation served, until its predilections became known.

Now, the rebirth of the thinking that we, the proletariat, the bourgeois, must be deprived of our lives and our liberties.
The new title is Communitarian, and the new bumper sticker is ‘social justice,’ and nowhere is it more evident than in the healthcare debate.

Read their own self-description, and recognize the political babble of the 1950’s American Communists:

“Communitarianism emerged in the 1980s as a response to the limits of liberal theory and practice. Its dominant themes are that individual rights need to be balanced with social responsibilities, and that autonomous selves do not exist in isolation, but are shaped by the values and culture of communities…The critique of one-sided emphasis on rights has been key to defining communitarianism…"Rights talk" thus corrupts our political discourse, and is used to trump genuine conversation, public deliberation, and practical compromise…rights need to be seen in a more balanced framework, and that the U.S. would benefit by a temporary moratorium on the manufacture of new rights.
While a few communitarians have developed refined institutional analyses to match their critiques—one thinks of liberal-communitarian Ezekiel Emanuel's very interesting proposals on health care…”
CPN - Tools

“Another key administration figure… is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, self-described 'communitarian, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.

The shocking element is that, in the words of Democat former Colorodo Governor Dick Lamb, "the elderly have a patriotic duty to die."

What a dingbat you are. Was Bismarck a communist? Don't worry, we will have a real Health Care System in this nation, and you will help pay for it. Happy now?

Otto von Bismarck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

– Otto von Bismarck, 20.03.1884[32]

The 1880s were a period when Germany started on its long road towards the welfare state it is today. The Social Democratic, National Liberal and Center parties were all involved in the beginnings of social legislation, but it was Bismarck who established the first practical aspects of this program. The program of the Social Democrats included all of the programs that Bismarck eventually implemented, but also included programs designed to preempt the programs championed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Bismarck’s idea was to implement the minimum aspects of these programs that were acceptable to the German government without any of the overtly Socialistic aspects.

Bismarck opened debate on the subject on 17 November 1881 in the Imperial Message to the Reichstag, using the term practical Christianity[33] to describe his program. In 1881 Bismarck had also referred to this program as Staatssozialismus, when he made the following accurate prediction to a colleague:

"It is possible that all our politics will come to nothing when I am dead but state socialism will drub[force] itself in. (Der Staatssozialismus paukt sich durch.)"[34]
Bismarck’s program centered squarely on insurance programs designed to increase productivity, and focus the political attentions of German workers on supporting the Junker's government. The program included Health Insurance; Accident Insurance (Workman’s Compensation); Disability Insurance; and an Old-age Retirement Pension, none of which were then currently in existence to any great degree.

Based on Bismarck’s message, The Reichstag filed three bills designed to deal with the concept of Accident insurance, and one for Health Insurance. The subjects of Retirement pensions and Disability Insurance were placed on the back burner for the time being.[35]


[edit] Health Insurance Bill of 1883
The first bill that had success was the Health Insurance bill, which was passed in 1883. The program was considered the least important from Bismarck’s point of view, and the least politically troublesome. The program was established to provide health care for the largest segment of the German workers. The health service was established on a local basis, with the cost divided between employers and the employed. The employers contributed 1/3rd, while the workers contributed 2/3rds . The minimum payments for medical treatment and Sick Pay for up to 13 weeks were legally fixed. The individual local health bureaus were administered by a committee elected by the members of each bureau, and this move had the unintended effect of establishing a majority representation for the workers on account of their large financial contribution. This worked to the advantage of the Social Democrats who – through heavy Worker membership – achieved their first small foothold in public administration.[35]


[edit] Accident Insurance Bill of 1884
Bismarck’s government had to submit three draft bills before they could get one passed by the Reichstag in 1884. Bismarck had originally proposed that the Federal Government pay a portion of the Accident Insurance contribution. Bismarck’s motive was a demonstration of the willingness of the German government to lessen the hardship experienced by the German workers as a means of weaning them away from the various left-wing parties, most importantly the Social Democrats. The National Liberals took this program to be an expression of State Socialism, which they were dead set against. The Center party was afraid of the expansion of Federal Power at the expense of States Rights. As a result, the only way the program could be passed at all was for the entire expense to be underwritten by the Employers. To facilitate this, Bismarck arranged for the administration of this program to be placed in the hands of “Der Arbeitgeberverband in den beruflichen Korporationen”, which translates as “The organization of employers in occupational corporations”. This organization established central and bureaucratic insurance offices on the Federal, and in some cases the State level to perform the actual administration. The program kicked in to replace the health insurance program as of the 14th week. It paid for medical treatment and a Pension of up to 2/3rds of earned wages if the worker was fully disabled. This program was expanded in 1886 to include Agricultural workers.[35]


[edit] Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889
The Old Age Pension program, financed by a tax on workers, was designed to provide a pension annuity for workers who reached the age of 70 years. At the time, the life expectancy for the average Prussian was 45 years. Unlike the Accident Insurance and Health Insurance programs, this program covered Industrial, Agrarian, Artisans and Servants from the start. Also, unlike the other two programs, the principle that the Federal Government should contribute a portion of the underwriting cost, with the other two portions prorated accordingly, was accepted without question. The Disability Insurance program was intended to be used by those permanently disabled. This time, the State or Province supervised the programs directly.[35]
 
Great topic Pol chic - some of us read the writing on the wall last year and some are just now recovering from their Kool Aid hangover

Isn't Acorn an association of communitarian organizers?

Man I'd love to see some of BHOs old college papers.

Are the Young Republicans a bunch of Fascists?

I don't have to see college papers to ascertain that the Bush administration was composed of people with definate Fascist leanings.

Statement of Principles
 
Great topic Pol chic - some of us read the writing on the wall last year and some are just now recovering from their Kool Aid hangover

Isn't Acorn an association of communitarian organizers?

Man I'd love to see some of BHOs old college papers.

Are the Young Republicans a bunch of Fascists?

Not usually. Usually they're just upper middle class 30 somethings who cannpt imagine what life is like for those who aren't just like them.

I don't have to see college papers to ascertain that the Bush administration was composed of people with definate Fascist leanings.

Statement of Principles

One man's fascist is another man's strong leader, OR.

To date nobody has ever been able to clearly define the difference between any other garden variety totalitarian and a fasicst totalitarian.

I personally think the only difference is uniforms.

The facist totalitarians have a better sense of style than most communist or shamocractic totalitarians.
 
Well, let's see. The government has taken over the banks. They have taken over the auto industry. They have taken over the home mortgage industry. Now they are trying to take over health care. I predict that in a few months they will be trying to make it illegal to own any firearms. Then Hitler Obama will have completed his task. He wants the government to control every aspect of your life and he will not stop until that happens.

And they do such a good job, don't they.

On August 4th, 1977, that is 32 years ago, the Department of Energy was established.
It currently has 16,000 federal employees and 100,000 contract employees.
It has a budget of $24.2 billion.
Question: what was the stated reason for the establishment of the department?


Answer: TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE
ON FOREIGN OIL.
Now, based on this level of accomplishment, what are the other initiatives whe should put in the hands of the government?
We should put the government in charge of increasing poverty. If that was the stated goal, we should see a decrease in short order.
 
Once upon a time the cognoscenti were proud to tell all that they were communists! Proud to be on the cutting edge of societal thought, clearly ahead of everyone else. But once the horrendous nature of the ideology became apparent, it was no longer possible to wear that badge.

Then, they were liberals, then progressives…whatever incarnation served, until its predilections became known.

Now, the rebirth of the thinking that we, the proletariat, the bourgeois, must be deprived of our lives and our liberties.
The new title is Communitarian, and the new bumper sticker is ‘social justice,’ and nowhere is it more evident than in the healthcare debate.

Read their own self-description, and recognize the political babble of the 1950’s American Communists:

“Communitarianism emerged in the 1980s as a response to the limits of liberal theory and practice. Its dominant themes are that individual rights need to be balanced with social responsibilities, and that autonomous selves do not exist in isolation, but are shaped by the values and culture of communities…The critique of one-sided emphasis on rights has been key to defining communitarianism…"Rights talk" thus corrupts our political discourse, and is used to trump genuine conversation, public deliberation, and practical compromise…rights need to be seen in a more balanced framework, and that the U.S. would benefit by a temporary moratorium on the manufacture of new rights.
While a few communitarians have developed refined institutional analyses to match their critiques—one thinks of liberal-communitarian Ezekiel Emanuel's very interesting proposals on health care…”
CPN - Tools

“Another key administration figure… is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, self-described 'communitarian, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.

The shocking element is that, in the words of Democat former Colorodo Governor Dick Lamb, "the elderly have a patriotic duty to die."

There are numerous psychological studies on the right wing mind... but you are the classic example of the extreme right wing mind... overwhelming paranoia and totally driven by the strongest human emotion...FEAR...

Look OUT, the black helicopters are circling!!!
 
Once upon a time the cognoscenti were proud to tell all that they were communists! Proud to be on the cutting edge of societal thought, clearly ahead of everyone else. But once the horrendous nature of the ideology became apparent, it was no longer possible to wear that badge.

Then, they were liberals, then progressives…whatever incarnation served, until its predilections became known.

Now, the rebirth of the thinking that we, the proletariat, the bourgeois, must be deprived of our lives and our liberties.
The new title is Communitarian, and the new bumper sticker is ‘social justice,’ and nowhere is it more evident than in the healthcare debate.

Read their own self-description, and recognize the political babble of the 1950’s American Communists:

“Communitarianism emerged in the 1980s as a response to the limits of liberal theory and practice. Its dominant themes are that individual rights need to be balanced with social responsibilities, and that autonomous selves do not exist in isolation, but are shaped by the values and culture of communities…The critique of one-sided emphasis on rights has been key to defining communitarianism…"Rights talk" thus corrupts our political discourse, and is used to trump genuine conversation, public deliberation, and practical compromise…rights need to be seen in a more balanced framework, and that the U.S. would benefit by a temporary moratorium on the manufacture of new rights.
While a few communitarians have developed refined institutional analyses to match their critiques—one thinks of liberal-communitarian Ezekiel Emanuel's very interesting proposals on health care…”
CPN - Tools

“Another key administration figure… is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, self-described 'communitarian, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.

The shocking element is that, in the words of Democat former Colorodo Governor Dick Lamb, "the elderly have a patriotic duty to die."

There are numerous psychological studies on the right wing mind... but you are the classic example of the extreme right wing mind... overwhelming paranoia and totally driven by the strongest human emotion...FEAR...

Look OUT, the black helicopters are circling!!!

Nice way to address the issues.
Oh wait, you didn't.
Yawn.....................
 
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It's pretty interesting to learn that every other Western country is communist, including all of America's rich allies.

I didn't know that. You learn something new every day.

If I read you flaccid sarcasm correctly you are claiming that " every other Western country"
has a national policy that requires its citizens to submit to 'end of life counceling" aimed at reducing the costs of national healthcare.

""One of the most shocking things is page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory absolutely that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session," she said. "They will tell [them] how to end their life sooner."

The proposal specifically calls for the consultation to recommend "palliative care and hospice" for seniors in their mandatory counseling sessions. Palliative care and hospice generally focus only on pain relief until death."
Obamacare for old folks: Just 'cut your life short'

I thought that the Hippocratic Oath was part of the DNA of the medical profession, or have you learned that in " every other Western country" this is dispensed with?

"True change, writes Dr. Emanuel, must include reassessing the promise doctors make when they enter the profession, the Hippocratic Oath. Amazingly, Dr. Emanuel criticizes the Hippocratic Oath as partly to blame for the "overuse" of medical care: the "Hippocratic Oath's admonition to 'use my power to help the sick to the best of my ability and judgment' as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others." (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008.) But Dr. Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their own patient and consider social justice."
Defend Your Health Care

And, since I must bow to your superior knowledge, it must be true that "every other Western country" proudly announces that they will institute long waits for procedures, and refusal to use latest technology and drugs for their sick and infrirm.

"Dr. David Blumenthal, a Harvard professor and key health advisor to President Obama, states that the goal is not only universal coverage but also a similar healthcare experience for everyone, regardless of ability to pay (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). Dr. Blumenthal conceded that "government controls on health care spending are associated with longer waits for elective procedures and reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices."
Defend Your Health Care

Or would you like to admit that we have the finest healthcare system in the world, and the "hope and change" that is being promised is more in tune with the former Soviete Union than the United States of America?
 
It's pretty interesting to learn that every other Western country is communist, including all of America's rich allies.

I didn't know that. You learn something new every day.

Devious infiltrating bastards those communists.

Thank Adam Smith we frequent this place to keep us updated, eh?
 
Without doubt nationalized health care insurance will give government an excuse to invade our private lives.

But then, pretty much everything that happens becomes an excuse for the government to invade our private lives, doesn't it?

Medicade is going to encourage us to kill ourselves?

After we sign those organ donor releases, of course.
 
The award for "Most destructive effect on public discourse by a single person" for the 2000s, so far, goes to Dick "no doubt" Cheney. ("Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Cheney, speech to national VFW Convention, August 26, 2002. Of course, this is a career-achievement award, not limited to this one event.)

My nominee for the winner in the 1990s would be Elizabeth "Betsy" McCaughey. At various stages in her career she has been a banker, a Republican politician, and a staffer at conservative think tanks, but she entered the public stage in the mid-1990s in the guise of a dispassionate, independent researcher who considered it her duty to inform the American public about the dire threats it faced. Come to think of it, that is more or less the guise Cheney took in warning about the threat from Iraq.

In McCaughey's case, the equivalent of weapons of mass destruction was the original Clinton Health Reform plan. In 1994 she wrote a cover story in the New Republic "revealing" a number of hidden dangers in the Clinton plan that less careful analysts had somehow missed. Unfortunately for McCaughey, most of what she wrote was false. Unfortunately for the Clintons, most of what she claimed was echoed uncritically and became part of the conventional wisdom of why the bill couldn't pass.

After the jump, a passage from my 1995 Atlantic article "A Triumph of Misinformation" about McCaughey's article and its effects. More on this topic in my 1996 book Breaking the News -- and especially about why sloppy press coverage did as much to thwart health-care reform under the Clintons as it did to bring on the Iraq war under Cheney and Bush.

Why bring this up now? Because McCaughey has sprung up again to "reveal" another hidden danger in another Democratic administration's plans. Buried inside the new stimulus bill, she has discovered, are new big-brother tactics similar to those she warned against years ago. In a recent Bloomberg.com opinion column she wrote:

One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective....Hospitals and doctors that are not "meaningful users" of the new system will face penalties. "Meaningful user" isn't defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose "more stringent measures of meaningful use over time" (511, 518, 540-541)

For what is wrong with her "analysis" this time, check out this in The Washington Monthly, which also has a chronology of how the (right wing) press -- led by Fox, Limbaugh, and Drudge -- is again picking up flatly disprovable lies. (Eg, the "new" bureaucracy she warns about already exists, and was established under GW Bush.)

Seriously, every one of McCaughey's statements about public policy from this day forward should be subjected to the "Oh yes, and how did it turn out last time?" test. We are in OJ territory here. Stop this new claim before it gets real traction.
___

From "A Triumph of Misinformation":

Much of the problem for the plan seemed, at least in Washington, to come not even from mandatory alliances but from an article by Elizabeth McCaughey, then of the Manhattan Institute, published in The New Republic last February. The article's working premise was that McCaughey, with no ax to grind and no preconceptions about health care, sat down for a careful reading of the whole Clinton bill. Appalled at the hidden provisions she found, she felt it her duty to warn people about what the bill might mean. The title of her article was "No Exit," and the message was that Bill and Hillary Clinton had proposed a system that would lock people in to government-run care. "The law will prevent you from going outside the system to buy basic health coverage you think is better," McCaughey wrote in the first paragraph. "The doctor can be paid only by the plan, not by you."

George Will immediately picked up this warning, writing in Newsweek that "it would be illegal for doctors to accept money directly from patients, and there would be 15-year jail terms for people driven to bribery for care they feel they need but the government does not deem 'necessary.'" The "doctors in jail" concept soon turned up on talk shows and was echoed for the rest of the year.

These claims, McCaughey's and Will's, were simply false. McCaughey's pose of impartiality was undermined by her campaign as the Republican nominee for lieutenant governor of New York soon after her article was published. I was less impressed with her scholarly precision after I compared her article with the text of the Clinton bill. Her shocked claim that coverage would be available only for "necessary" and "appropriate" treatment suggested that she had not looked at any of today's insurance policies. In claiming that the bill would make it impossible to go outside the health plan or pay doctors on one's own, she had apparently skipped past practically the first provision of the bill (Sec. 1003), which said,


"Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting the following: (1) An individual from purchasing any health care services."

It didn't matter. The White House issued a point-by-point rebuttal, which The New Republic did not run. Instead it published a long piece by McCaughey attacking the White House statement. The idea of health policemen stuck.

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/lets_stop_this_before_it_goes.php
 

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