CDZ The Nazino Affair

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    If you want to imagine a world without religion, you really dont need to.

    Just look at the horrible things the communists have done.

    The Russian Island of Cannibals | Mysterious Universe

    It was 1933 in the former Soviet Union, and Stalin’s brutal regime was in the midst of a diabolical plan originally thought up by a Genrikh Yagoda, the head of the Joint State Political Directorate, which was the Soviet secret police force. The grand plan was envisioned as sending up to 2,000,000 of society’s undesirables to the desolate wastes of Siberia and Kazakhstan in order to set up what was termed “special settlements,” and which most of us today know as the notorious gulags. It was thought that within two years, these settlements full of their “labor colonists” would be able to tame these wild, untouched lands and manage a state of self-sufficiency, moving them out of the cities and having them successfully populate the most remote and inhospitable regions, even though these regions were rife with famine at the time. The idea was that these people could inhabit these regions and live on their own, thereby purifying and cleansing Soviet cities of their more unsavory elements that were essentially considered parasites feeding off of civilized society....

    The “undesirables” that were to be sent were mostly the homeless, beggars, petty criminals, gypsies, the mentally handicapped and the insane, more or less anyone who didn’t fit into the ideals of the Communist class structure, but it seems that simply not having a proper internal passport was enough to get someone on the list. By April of 1933, 25,000 people had been rounded up and loaded into stinking, cramped trains to be sent off into the far corners of the frigid wilderness, and they were to pass through a transit camp at the remote Siberian region Tomsk on the way. The trip was a harrowing one, with very little food or water to go around, which caused the rise of gangs who beat or killed other prisoners to steal their food and belongings. Once they arrived at Tomsk things did not get any better. They had arrived a few days before they were expected, and the Tomsk authorities had been given very short notice in the first place, meaning they were poorly equipped to deal with the deluge of prisoners pouring in. There was not enough food, water, and medicine to go around, and furthermore the Tomsk authorities viewed the urban prisoners as wretched, diseased, and dangerous. Not surprisingly, many of the prisoners perished during the whole ordeal, but considering what was to happen next they were probably among the lucky ones.

    In an effort to take pressure off of the limited available resources and to relieve the strain of the overcrowded camp, around 6,000 of the bedraggled prisoners were chosen to be moved to another temporary camp until it could be figured out just what to do with them. Four river barges typically used for hauling wood were hastily refurbished into prison vessels and the mass of freezing, starving prisoners were crammed aboard to be brought to an isolated speck of land surrounded by rivers, around 3 km long and 600 meters wide and located 800km away by the name of Nazino Island. Conditions aboard the barges were even worse than they had been aboard the trains, with prisoners kept stuffed below decks to wallow in filth and allocated only a meager 200 grams of rotting bread per person a day on which to subsist. There was no other food aboard the barges, no cooking utensils nor extra clothing, and very little water. Even the guards accompanying the prisoners were new recruits who didn’t have uniforms and in some cases even shoes. By the time the barges reached Nazino Island, 27 of the prisoners had already died due to the horrid conditions and around a third of the rest barely had the strength to stand....

    Things quickly went from bad to worse when it was found that their new home was a frigid wasteland of thorny brush bereft of any natural food sources, and a further 300 prisoners died in a snowstorm on the first night as they slept out in the open without shelter. Nevertheless, the prisoners were abandoned there and left to fend for themselves without supplies, tools, or cooking utensils, and only a few guards who were practically as haggard as they were to preserve order. The only thing they were left with was around 20 tons of moldy flour which was dumped onto the shore of the island and then to be distributed equally, but things rather quickly devolved into chaos when the starving prisoners converged upon the flour in a churning, disorderly stampede which quickly turned to brawls and rioting. The panicked guards ended up firing into this crowd of people in a mad dash to get food, leaving many of them dead or wounded. For those who were able to secure flour for themselves, their troubles were only starting. Since there were no ovens or equipment with which to actually make bread, little water to be had, and not even any containers to put it in, most people resorted to mixing the flour with dirty, disease infested river water and eating it raw, which led to rampant dysentery and typhoid.

    Realizing that they were facing sure doom on the island if they stayed, many of the prisoners tried to make a break for freedom aboard jerry-rigged makeshift rafts, which didn’t go very well at all. Some of these escapees were shot by the ragtag group of guards stationed on the island while others drowned when their rafts disintegrated beneath their feet in the rough waters of the river. Those who actually managed to get out would have soon seen how misguided their plans were, since the only thing to be found downstream was vast expanses of frozen Siberian taiga and there were no roads leading to civilization for hundreds of miles around. In fact the nearest settlement of any size was hundreds of miles upstream at Tomsk, from which they had come in the first place. The handful of people who got away was quickly deemed to be doomed to die out in the Siberian badlands....

    Within a few more days of arriving on Nazino Island, dozens more had died, most of the bodies just lying out in the open, and it was not long before the starving masses of people began to resort to feeding off of the flesh of those who had fallen. It became a common sight to see dead bodies that had been cut up as if by a butcher, stripped of the best pieces of flesh and missing nourishing organs such as livers. It was not long after that that the prisoners began to graduate to cannibalistic murders, hunting each other down for food as if they were animals. Roving gangs of people crazed from hunger fanned out and terrorized the sick or weak, brutally slaying them and consuming their flesh raw. In one particularly disturbing account, a young woman was allegedly captured and tied to a tree, where bloodthirsty cannibals stripped her of meat while she was still alive writhing in agony. A common practice among prisoners was called “bleeding the cow,” in which a group would lure in another prisoner by inviting them to join them in an escape attempt, only to brutally kill and butcher them for their meat when they got the person alone. The few guards stationed on the island ostensibly for the purpose of keeping the prisoners in line were no use in protecting the victims in the face of this bloodbath. Not only were the guards undisciplined and corrupt, with many of them extorting the prisoners on a regular basis, but they were also mostly just as starved and disheveled as any of their charges, with one official once proclaiming that Nazino’s guards were “in no way distinguished from the déclassé elements they were supposed to monitor.” Many years later, one survivor of the ordeal, then in her 80s, who arrived at Nazino Island as a 13-year-old girl would say:

    The things we saw! People were dying everywhere; they were killing each other. When you went along the island you saw human flesh wrapped in rags, human flesh that had been cut and hung in the trees. The fields were full of corpses.

    Unbelievably, the Soviet government either did not know or did not care about how out of hand things had become, and continued to send shipments of even more prisoners to the island, with a further 1,200 arriving on May 27 to face the hardship of this untamed land and its marauding cannibalistic hordes. It is said that some of these new arrivals were savagely attacked and ravaged for their meat practically upon stepping off of the boat. As the savage bloodshed got worse and more people died, the government began to realize the gravity of the situation and became concerned that some of the blood crazed prisoners on the island might actually make their way to remote villages in the region to run amok and become an apocalyptic cannibalistic scourge on the surrounding areas. Reinforcements were sent in to Nazino to aid the outnumbered and under equipped guards that were already there and dozens of prisoners were arrested for cannibalism, but it was too little too late. By the time the camp was totally shut down, just one month after it had started, it is estimated that 4,000 of the initial 6,000 people brought here had died, many of them violently, although the true death toll will likely forever remain unknown as many of the prisoners lacked any sort of proper documentation.


    Nazino affair - Wikipedia
     
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  2. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Katyn massacre - Wikipedia

    The Katyn massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, "Katyń crime"; Russian: Катынский расстрел Katynskij rasstrel, "Katyn shooting") was a series of mass executions of Polish nationals carried out by the NKVD ("People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs", a Soviet secret police organisation) in April and May 1940. Though the killings took place at several different locations, the massacre is named after the Katyn Forest, where some of the mass graves were first discovered.

    The massacre was prompted by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria's proposal to execute all captive members of the Polish officer corps, dated 5 March 1940, approved by the Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, including its leader, Joseph Stalin. The number of victims is estimated at about 22,000.[1] The victims were executed in the Katyn Forest in Russia, the Kalinin and Kharkiv prisons, and elsewhere. Of the total killed, about 8,000 were officers imprisoned during the 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland, another 6,000 were police officers, and the rest were Polish intelligentsia that the Soviets deemed to be "intelligence agents, gendarmes, landowners, saboteurs, factory owners, lawyers, officials, and priests".[1]

    The government of Nazi Germany announced the discovery of mass graves in the Katyn Forest in 1943. When the London-based Polish government-in-exile asked for an investigation by the International Committee of the Red Cross, Stalin immediately severed diplomatic relations with it. The USSR claimed that the victims had been murdered by the Nazis in 1941 and continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990, when it officially acknowledged and condemned the perpetration of the killings by the NKVD, as well as the subsequent cover-up by the Soviet government.[1][2][3][a]

    An investigation conducted by the office of the Prosecutors General of the Soviet Union (1990–1991) and the Russian Federation (1991–2004) confirmed Soviet responsibility for the massacres but refused to classify this action as a war crime or an act of genocide. The investigation was closed on the grounds that the perpetrators of the atrocity were already dead, and since the Russian government would not classify the dead as victims of the Great Purge, formal posthumous rehabilitation was deemed inapplicable.[4]

    In November 2010, the Russian State Duma approved a declaration blaming Stalin and other Soviet officials for having personally ordered the massacre.[5]
     
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  3. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Medvedev Forest massacre - Wikipedia

    The Medvedev Forest massacre was a mass execution in the Soviet Union carried out by the NKVD on September 11, 1941. Barely three months after the German invasion of the Soviet Union, 157 political prisoners incarcerated at Oryol Prison were executed in Medvedev Forest, just outside Oryol, by personal order of Joseph Stalin.[1] Among the victims were Christian Rakovsky, Sergei Efron, Olga Kameneva, and Maria Spiridonova.[2] In 1941, the Orel isolation prison contained some five thousand political prisoners. This execution was one of the many massacres of prisoners committed by the NKVD in 1941.
     
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  4. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Medvedev Forest massacre - Wikipedia

    The Medvedev Forest massacre was a mass execution in the Soviet Union carried out by the NKVD on September 11, 1941. Barely three months after the German invasion of the Soviet Union, 157 political prisoners incarcerated at Oryol Prison were executed in Medvedev Forest, just outside Oryol, by personal order of Joseph Stalin.[1] Among the victims were Christian Rakovsky, Sergei Efron, Olga Kameneva, and Maria Spiridonova.[2] In 1941, the Orel isolation prison contained some five thousand political prisoners. This execution was one of the many massacres of prisoners committed by the NKVD in 1941.
     
  5. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Ok. Stalin was a monster. To make conversation:

    Hitler must have been real monster to have been the greater of two evils.

    Um, I say take out the reference to religion also. I remember some horror stories from my Protestant reformation class not to mention the horrors of too many Allah worshipers getting group think going on.

    Stalin was not a good man though. Imagine FDR and Truman having to deal with him.
     
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  6. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Mostly rubbish, just anti-Catholic propaganda pulled out of somebody's ass. If the claims were true, Europe would have been completely depopulated, and they would have had to import millions more and kill them to make up the difference. Europe would have a population of around 5 now, three Japanese tourists and a Chinese gift shop owner and his wife selling them plastic statues and maps. Lutherans and Anglican and Episcopalians are still basically Catholics, they just don't send the Vatican any franchise fees. The 'Evangelicals' that rose out of Calvinism are the main catalysts for progress re the U.S., the First and Second Great Awakenings providing Jefferson's core voter base, especially those annoying Baptists, who invented separation of church and state and important enough to make even the Federalists write an Amendment to invoke that.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  7. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Gold Member

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    So Jim, how are things going in your neck of the woods?
     
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  8. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Stalin and Hitler were two peas in a pod; Commies and Nazis are pretty much distinctions without a difference for the average person living under either regime; Mao was even worse, but he's the soul mate of today's 'Antifas' and Bernies' Buggerers, so be thankful they lost the election; a Hillary presidency would be like Obama's, turning the U.S. into Red China to please Wall Street.
     
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  9. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    FDR had the typical White Shoe elite's mentality; he thought he was smarter than Stalin and could charm him into doing what he wanted him to do, and completely misread Stalin and his real agendas. It was FDR's most serious flaw, a very common attitude among his peer group in those days. Truman was far less delusional about Stalin, especially by 1947, after Stalin had broken every agreement made with the U.S. and Britain.
     
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  10. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Been having some really slow internet the past couple of days, dont know why.

    My job seems to be going pretty well so far, but its only been a week in.

    No massacres so far, at least as far as I know. But Virginia does have a Democrat governor, so who really knows?

    How are you doing?
     
  11. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Gold Member

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    Doing good.
    Just wish I knew I could retire by 65.
    I hate waking up at 6:30AM but thankfully It's only a 20 minute ride.
     
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