The Nation of Islam's minister convicted of bank fraud

[Delta4Embassy]

Pretty sure all religions forbid lying.

I see...could you demonstrate that for Christianity?

Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor

Some debate whether that 'perjury' prohibition extends to all lying since you obviously lie in warfare to your enemy.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you support banning all speech you disagree with?

No, do you?

Nope. If you'll notice, I didn't call for any groups to be "banned".

What about a right wing group advocating violence?

Nope. I don't believe that the right to free association is somehow negated by speech that I don't like.

Or speech that is illegal?

I don't believe that any speech should be illegal, and for the most part, the Supreme Court agrees with me. It's very hard to convict someone of the crime of making illegal threats, the Brandenburg test is very specific.

But if it were legally determined that comments made by a representative of a group contained illegal threats, then the responsibility for that would fall on the individual who made the illegal comments, not the group he represents.

 

[depotoo]

Wrong-

Articulation of taqiyya

According to the authoritative Arabic text, Al-Taqiyya Fi Al-Islam: "Taqiyya [deception] is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it. We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream...Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era."

The primary Quranic verse sanctioning deception with respect to non-Muslims states: "Let believers not take for friends and allies infidels instead of believers. Whoever does this shall have no relationship left with Allah – unless you but guard yourselves against them, taking precautions." (Quran 3:28; see also 2:173; 2:185; 4:29; 22:78; 40:28.)

Al-Tabari's (838-923 AD) Tafsir, or Quranic exegeses, is essentially a standard reference in the entire Muslim world. Regarding 3:28, he wrote: "If you [Muslims] are under their [infidels'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them, with your tongue, while harbouring inner animosity for them... Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels in place of believers – except when infidels are above them [in authority]. In such a scenario, let them act friendly towards them."

Regarding 3:28, the Islamic scholar Ibn Kathir (1301-1373) wrote: "Whoever at any time or place fears their [infidels'] evil, may protect himself through outward show."

So? This the first time in history a church leader got caught embezzling or something?

Greetings Delta...actually in Islam Muslims are strictly forbidden to *lie.* This is Qur'an 2:42, Yusuf Ali translation:

"And cover not Truth
With falsehood, nor conceal
The Truth when ye know (what it is)."...

This isn't the only lie that the NOI has been involved in...here is another interesting story about their *lie* not to carry weapons; video of former NOI representative Khalid Muhammad referring to an event at which he drew a firearm (in his slang words "pulled his stuff" which is Black American slang for drawing a firearm) while guarding Farrakhan...how can they be trusted to TELL THE TRUTH with all of the lying I wonder...:

 

[Anonymous1977]

Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor

I see...and those other than your neighbor?...

 

[Anonymous1977]

Wrong-

Articulation of taqiyya

According to the authoritative Arabic text, Al-Taqiyya Fi Al-Islam: "Taqiyya [deception] is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it. We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream...Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era."

The primary Quranic verse sanctioning deception with respect to non-Muslims states: "Let believers not take for friends and allies infidels instead of believers. Whoever does this shall have no relationship left with Allah – unless you but guard yourselves against them, taking precautions." (Quran 3:28; see also 2:173; 2:185; 4:29; 22:78; 40:28.)

Al-Tabari's (838-923 AD) Tafsir, or Quranic exegeses, is essentially a standard reference in the entire Muslim world. Regarding 3:28, he wrote: "If you [Muslims] are under their [infidels'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them, with your tongue, while harbouring inner animosity for them... Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels in place of believers – except when infidels are above them [in authority]. In such a scenario, let them act friendly towards them."

Regarding 3:28, the Islamic scholar Ibn Kathir (1301-1373) wrote: "Whoever at any time or place fears their [infidels'] evil, may protect himself through outward show."

I learned that all translations of the Qur'an are not accurate. But here are the two translations from the two standard translations among Muslims, of Qur'an 3:28, translations from the Noble Qur'an and the Yusuf Ali Qur'an (from the website: The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم:)

Noble Qur'an
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return.

Yusuf Ali
Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

Nothing in what you cited changes Qur'an 2:42:

"And cover not Truth
With falsehood, nor conceal
The Truth when ye know (what it is)."

Everything must fit the entire context of things, so your citations must be considered within the context of Qur'an 2:42...

 

[Anonymous1977]

Pretty sure all religions forbid lying.

Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor

Actually guys, here is what the Bible says about lying (the Bible's story of the lying prophet:)

1 Kings 13:11-32
(11)Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father.
(12)And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah.
(13)And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,
(14)And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
(15)Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
(16)And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
(17)For it was said to me by the word of the Lord, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
(18)He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the Lord, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
(19)So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
(20)And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the Lord came unto the prophet that brought him back:
(21)And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the Lord, and hast not kept the commandment which the Lord thy God commanded thee,
(22)But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
(23)And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
(24)And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.
(25)And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
(26)And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the Lord: therefore the Lord hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake unto him.
(27)And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him.
(28)And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass.
(29)And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him.
(30)And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother!
(31)And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones:
(32)For the saying which he cried by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.

 

[depotoo]

I actually got that from an Islamic website.

Wrong-

Articulation of taqiyya

According to the authoritative Arabic text, Al-Taqiyya Fi Al-Islam: "Taqiyya [deception] is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it. We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream...Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era."

The primary Quranic verse sanctioning deception with respect to non-Muslims states: "Let believers not take for friends and allies infidels instead of believers. Whoever does this shall have no relationship left with Allah – unless you but guard yourselves against them, taking precautions." (Quran 3:28; see also 2:173; 2:185; 4:29; 22:78; 40:28.)

Al-Tabari's (838-923 AD) Tafsir, or Quranic exegeses, is essentially a standard reference in the entire Muslim world. Regarding 3:28, he wrote: "If you [Muslims] are under their [infidels'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them, with your tongue, while harbouring inner animosity for them... Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels in place of believers – except when infidels are above them [in authority]. In such a scenario, let them act friendly towards them."

Regarding 3:28, the Islamic scholar Ibn Kathir (1301-1373) wrote: "Whoever at any time or place fears their [infidels'] evil, may protect himself through outward show."

I learned that all translations of the Qur'an are not accurate. But here are the two translations from the two standard translations among Muslims, of Qur'an 3:28, translations from the Noble Qur'an and the Yusuf Ali Qur'an (from the website: The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم:)

Noble Qur'an
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return.

Yusuf Ali
Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

Nothing in what you cited changes Qur'an 2:42:

"And cover not Truth
With falsehood, nor conceal
The Truth when ye know (what it is)."

Everything must fit the entire context of things, so your citations must be considered within the context of Qur'an 2:42...

 

[Anonymous1977]

I actually got that from an Islamic website.

Everything on the internet isn't true, my friend...

 

[aris2chat]

So I recently discovered that a man convicted of lying to banks and stealing $323,000 from them (while he was a member of the Nation of Islam) is a top Nation of Islam official.

His name is Akbar Muhammad and here are two links about his conviction:

(From The St. Louis Post-Dispatch:) Nation of Islam figure pleads guilty of fraud He used multiple Social Security numbers to hide debts from lenders. : News

(From A Singular Voice blog:) N.O.I Minister Larry 4X Prescott (aka Akbar Muhammad), Convention Speaker For MANA, Pleads Guilty to Bank Fraud

A quote from the blogger: "What makes [Akbar's] crime all the more appalling is the fact that he held a number of 'fund raisers' (are you all starting to get the picture) in different cities in support of his legal defense fund knowing full well that he was guilty!"

The blogger said this referring to fund raisers held by Mr. Muhammad wherein he asked for money to help pay for his legal defense, which is therefore more stealing if he knew that he was guilty.

The Nation of Islam is an American religious group headed by Louis Farrakhan.

Comments?...

good

 

[Anonymous1977]

good

I agreed that it is good that he was convicted...Another lie from the group (the Nation of Islam:)

Video showing that "Fard Muhammad" the man that the group worships as God, was a convicted drug-dealer named Wallace Ford...information about his conviction is online by searching "Wallace Ford 1926 state poison act conviction."


PICTURE 1: Side-by-side of Wallace Ford mugshot & Fard Muhammad photo.
PICTURE 2: Full Wallace Ford mugshot.
PICTURE 3: Various mugshots of Mr. Ford.

Hopefully Farrakhan will be the next convict in this group of lying criminals...

 

[Anonymous1977]

...this Akbar Muhammad is the same man implicated to have been involved in the assassination of Black leader, Malcolm X at 08:53 in this Youtube video, under his former Nation of Islam name "Larry 4X"...:

 

[Anonymous1977]

...Mr. Muhammad pictured with Louis Farrakhan (Farrakhan center, Muhammad left:)

 

[Anonymous1977]

Pictures about lie that Wallace Ford (as the NOI calls him "W. Fard Muhammad") is God...

THIS PICTURE: Wallace Ford mugshot (left)/"Fard Muhammad" (right)

THIS PICTURE: Side & Forward Wallace Ford mugshot


THIS PICTURE: Various mugshots of Mr. Ford ("Fard.")