The Myths of Reaganomics

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you admit that socialism always fails, but still give credit to Reagan for dismantling the Soviet Union just because he made that his "Number 1 Foreign Policy Objective."

If I make it my number one objective to have the sun rise this morning do I get credit for it when it does?

Look, you're not too bright so I'm not going to waste much more time talking to you. My three previous posts have addressed your "points" and you are impervious to them so I'm going to save some electrons and not repeat myself any more.

Find a grown up to read my posts to you

Frank, you have taken Mr Wookie Suit to the cleaners on this exchange. Every point you have made is right, every point he has tried to make is wrong.
If not for Reagan the Soviet Union would probably still be limping along and Obama would be apologizing for all those spies we arrested, while arranging aid to prop them up because they are the devil we know. Sort of like his Iran policy.
Game, set, match Reagan and the good guys. Sorry, Kevin. Better luck next time.

Well I'm absolutely shocked you hold this opinion. Never saw it coming.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sorry, Kevin. You were outclassed by Frank on this one.
Maybe start a thread on care and cleaning of the wookie suit and you'll do better.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Sorry, Kevin. You were outclassed by Frank on this one.
Maybe start a thread on care and cleaning of the wookie suit and you'll do better.

It's not if you win or lose, it's how you play the game.

 

[Toro]

They did a poll in Europe several years ago on the causes of the fall of communism. Reagan was something like forth or fifth down the list. It is a very American-centric view, actually Republican-centric view, that Reagan caused the fall of communism.

There is little doubt that he contributed. He provided the moral backbone to call communism what it was, evil, and funded a build-up in arms that the USSR simply could not match.

However, he certainly wasn't the only reason. The people who lived under the iron curtain, who smashed down the walls and stood in front of the tanks in Red Square were responsible. The election of a Polish pope was responsible. Solidarity, the Polish trade union, was also responsible.

And the biggest reason was probably the contradiction of the internal logic of communism itself. Communism could not continue indefinitely because it distorts the allocation of resources away from productive uses. Eventually, communism was going to collapse because it was communism. Communism may have collapsed earlier had OPEC not come into existence because oil was one of the USSR's biggest earners of foreign exchange.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Euro-weenies hated Reagan. The Greens were all for dropping their pants to the Soviets and engaging in unilateral disarmament. No wonder they didnt give Reagan the credit due.

 

[Oddball]

They did a poll in Europe several years ago on the causes of the fall of communism. Reagan was something like forth or fifth down the list. It is a very American-centric view, actually Republican-centric view, that Reagan caused the fall of communism.

There is little doubt that he contributed. He provided the moral backbone to call communism what it was, evil, and funded a build-up in arms that the USSR simply could not match.

However, he certainly wasn't the only reason. The people who lived under the iron curtain, who smashed down the walls and stood in front of the tanks in Red Square were responsible. The election of a Polish pope was responsible. Solidarity, the Polish trade union, was also responsible.

And the biggest reason was probably the contradiction of the internal logic of communism itself. Communism could not continue indefinitely because it distorts the allocation of resources away from productive uses. Eventually, communism was going to collapse because it was communism. Communism may have collapsed earlier had OPEC not come into existence because oil was one of the USSR's biggest earners of foreign exchange.

Well, Reagan did give the falling-down tar paper shack of Soviet communism the last push before it fell, even though it wouldn't likely have held together in the end anyways.

Ironic that they're now concluding that Keynesian central economic control doesn't work, when our politicians and bureaucrats keep claiming that we're just one more zillion dollar "stimulus" away from economic Nirvana.

 

[code1211]

The system in the USSR lasted for 70 years. Before Reagan no one was predicting its collapse. It continues on in Cuba, despite widespread prediction of collapse when the USSR went away, and N.Korea.

Not too sure whether it was on this board or another, but a woman who lived in the USSR for quite some time posted and gave a very detailed account of how the USSR started its demise in the 1960s. Raygun had nothing to do with it. He was around for the coup de grace ....

... I lived through Raygun and during his time in office, we all thought he was an average president at best. He looked good because his opposition was so weak...

As far as strategery goes, he was what he was and that weren't much. As far an orator, he was brilliant.

After six years of Nixonian obfuscation, 2 years of Ford's stumbing, bumbling words of confusion, 4 years of Carter's apologetic retreat from an America of strength and the accompanying ongoing disasters of energy, hostages and weakness, Reagan was a rising Sun of hope and courage.

In his first address to the nation as a president that I did not vote for, he described an America that needed to answer a call to lead the world and a vision of greatness and optimism.

He finished by asking God to bless us all and the United States of America. I got chills. Literally.

I left the Democrat Party at that moment and have not looked back.

Anybody who remembers the impotent weakness and directionless wandering of the Carter Administration might be getting a deja vue kind of a feeling right now. i know that I am.

 

[Toro]

The Euro-weenies hated Reagan. The Greens were all for dropping their pants to the Soviets and engaging in unilateral disarmament. No wonder they didnt give Reagan the credit due.

Perhaps, but it is no different than the right in America who has deified him and given him more credit than he deserves.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

They did a poll in Europe several years ago on the causes of the fall of communism. Reagan was something like forth or fifth down the list. It is a very American-centric view, actually Republican-centric view, that Reagan caused the fall of communism.

There is little doubt that he contributed. He provided the moral backbone to call communism what it was, evil, and funded a build-up in arms that the USSR simply could not match.

However, he certainly wasn't the only reason. The people who lived under the iron curtain, who smashed down the walls and stood in front of the tanks in Red Square were responsible. The election of a Polish pope was responsible. Solidarity, the Polish trade union, was also responsible.

And the biggest reason was probably the contradiction of the internal logic of communism itself. Communism could not continue indefinitely because it distorts the allocation of resources away from productive uses. Eventually, communism was going to collapse because it was communism. Communism may have collapsed earlier had OPEC not come into existence because oil was one of the USSR's biggest earners of foreign exchange.

They did another poll right after that one that says my SUV is melting the polar ice caps.

File under: BFD

 

[The Rabbi]

The Euro-weenies hated Reagan. The Greens were all for dropping their pants to the Soviets and engaging in unilateral disarmament. No wonder they didnt give Reagan the credit due.

Perhaps, but it is no different than the right in America who has deified him and given him more credit than he deserves.

Please show links to anyone who has deified Reagan. How much credit do you think he deserves for reversing about 15 years of bad policy?

 

[Toro]

The Euro-weenies hated Reagan. The Greens were all for dropping their pants to the Soviets and engaging in unilateral disarmament. No wonder they didnt give Reagan the credit due.

Perhaps, but it is no different than the right in America who has deified him and given him more credit than he deserves.

Please show links to anyone who has deified Reagan. How much credit do you think he deserves for reversing about 15 years of bad policy?

Are you kidding? Show me all the links of Democrats messianic worship of Obama. FFS, its amusing to watch Republicans hammer Democrats for worshiping at all things Obama. Not because they're wrong but because they do the exact same thing to Reagan! You can't have a Republican debate without one character saying that Reagan was their hero. The Florida Republicans named a highway after him in the state and tried to rename a main road in Tallahassee after him. I'm surprised they haven't commissioned his likeness as the fifth president on Mt Rushmore.

As for credit, yeah, I think he deserves a lot of credit. Weighing the good with the bad, he was a pretty good President.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Think of it: Reagan made no permanent changes, no Newer Deal, no Greater Society.

He cut taxes, rolled back regulation, used the market to compete down the price of energy, build up a military and challenged Soviet Hegemony.

None of it part of a permanent Statist Infrastructure! None of it!

And because he made these incremental changes he is the target of froth and demented hatred form the people he beat: Soviet Statists and the people who love them

 

[The Rabbi]

Your post is incoherent.
Wasn't it Chris Matthews who talked about a tingle in his legs? Who was it who called Obama the last Kennedy brother? It would be easy to Google hyperbolic statements extolling Obama. And he hasn't done anything.
Reagan at least spent 8 years in the White House doing something before people started being appreciative.
As for naming things, how many Eisenhower this and FDR that are there around the country? That doesn't equate with deifying Reagan.
No, Reagan changed the terms of debate in this country. Before, with the Nixon Republicans, the argument was how much should government do. After Reagan the argument became "should government do anything at all?"