The Myth of Occupied Territories

P F Tinmore, et al,

I thought the Basic law set the terms at 4 years.

2005 Amendment to the Basic Law (current) said:
Article 36

The term of the presidency of the National Authority shall be four years. The President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency, provided that he shall not occupy the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms.

SOURCE: The Basic Law of 2005 A.D. Concerning the Amendment some of the Provisions of the Amended Basic Law of 2003.

The constitution does not give a specific term of service for the PM and his Ministers. They hold office until they are replaced.

The PLO or the Arab League have nothing to do with it.
(COMMENT)

But, if you are correct, then it is not a true democratic process. One election does not make a democracy.

Governments can be classified into several types: said:
A dictatorship consists of rule by one person or a group of people. Very few dictators admit they are dictators; they almost always claim to be leaders of democracies. The dictator may be one person, such as Castro in Cuba or Hitler in Germany, or a group of people, such as the Communist Party in China.

The World Factbook: Definitions of the major governmental terms are as follows. said:
Dictatorship - a form of government in which a ruler or small clique wield absolute power (not restricted by a constitution or laws).

SOURCE: Definitions

SOURCE: Item 5. Dictatorship

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I thought the Basic law set the terms at 4 years.

2005 Amendment to the Basic Law (current) said:
Article 36

The term of the presidency of the National Authority shall be four years. The President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency, provided that he shall not occupy the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms.

SOURCE: The Basic Law of 2005 A.D. Concerning the Amendment some of the Provisions of the Amended Basic Law of 2003.

The constitution does not give a specific term of service for the PM and his Ministers. They hold office until they are replaced.

The PLO or the Arab League have nothing to do with it.
(COMMENT)

But, if you are correct, then it is not a true democratic process. One election does not make a democracy.

Governments can be classified into several types: said:
A dictatorship consists of rule by one person or a group of people. Very few dictators admit they are dictators; they almost always claim to be leaders of democracies. The dictator may be one person, such as Castro in Cuba or Hitler in Germany, or a group of people, such as the Communist Party in China.

The World Factbook: Definitions of the major governmental terms are as follows. said:
Dictatorship - a form of government in which a ruler or small clique wield absolute power (not restricted by a constitution or laws).

SOURCE: Definitions

SOURCE: Item 5. Dictatorship

Most Respectfully,
R

But, if you are correct, then it is not a true democratic process. One election does not make a democracy.

That is true and it is Abbas with the help of US money and weapons (and Israel) who will not allow constitutional procedures to move forward.
 
Hamas’ actions in Gaza was a coup

Q. When an elected government is boycotted, its ministers kidnapped, and its defeated rival armed by hostile powers, what do you call it when this same government defends itself?

A. A coup.

What sounds like a bad joke is in fact exactly how some — from newspaper editorials to the UK Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett — have chosen to describe what happened in Gaza. By contrast, this report from Reuters clarifies matters somewhat:

The US government began to lay the ground for President Mahmoud Abbas to dismiss the Hamas-led Palestinian government at least a year before the Islamist group’s violent takeover of the Gaza Strip last week.

Western, Israeli and Palestinian official sources said over the weekend that, far from being an ad hoc response to Hamas’s offensive, Abbas’s declaration of a state of emergency and his replacement of a Hamas prime minister with Western favorite Salam Fayyad marked the culmination of months of backroom deliberations, planning and US prodding …

… Many Western officials and analysts see the offensive as a pre-emptive strike by Hamas before Washington could build up Fatah. Hamas says it made its move against a US-backed coup.

Virginia Tilley, on The Electronic Intifada, described how Abbas’ response to the Hamas show of strength was a series of entirely illegal and dubious moves, all of which were greeted with praise and congratulations by Israel, the EU and the US.

Decoding the media's Palestinian "civil war" | The Electronic Intifada
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, yes... I read the Ben White article on the "The Electronic Intifada 19 June 2007" and "Politico."

Hamas’ actions in Gaza was a coup

Virginia Tilley, on The Electronic Intifada, described how Abbas’ response to the Hamas show of strength was a series of entirely illegal and dubious moves, all of which were greeted with praise and congratulations by Israel, the EU and the US.
(QUESTION)

Was it really a "coup?" I admit that it appears to be a a sudden and decisive political action; but!!! was it illegal? What made it illegal? OR! Was it merely good political theater and maneuvering?

(COMMENT)

You will notice that the Ben White article went on to say:

The conflict is a fight between the secular moderates of Fatah said:
Moreover, what is also ignored is the fact that Hamas have openly stated that their fight is not against Fatah per se, but against element within Fatah, notably Dahlan and his associates, who continue to work with the US and Israel.

SOURCE: ROLE OF THE MEDIA - Decoding the media’s Palestinian "civil war" by Ben White The Electronic Intifada 19 June 2007

Notice that HAMAS is fighting the elements in Fatah that want to address the conflict under the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly
Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/2625 (XXV)].

DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES said:
All States shall pursue in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control
and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.

All States shall comply in good faith with their obligations under the generally recognized principles and rules of international law with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, and shall endeavour to make the United Nations security system based on the Charter more effective.

We should remember that by Covenant, HAMAS is diametrically opposed to the Declaration of Principles, and instead, has adopted the Principle of Jihad. This is just one of the many reasons that the outside world does not embrace HAMAS. It is why Israel, the EU and the Middle East Quartet (among others) see HAMAS as counter-productive as a leadership element for the Palestinian people and an obstructionist to the cause of regional peace and security.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, yes... I read the Ben White article on the "The Electronic Intifada 19 June 2007" and "Politico."

Hamas’ actions in Gaza was a coup

Virginia Tilley, on The Electronic Intifada, described how Abbas’ response to the Hamas show of strength was a series of entirely illegal and dubious moves, all of which were greeted with praise and congratulations by Israel, the EU and the US.

Indeed, the criminal class loves Abbas because he does illegal stuff all the time.

(QUESTION)

Was it really a "coup?" I admit that it appears to be a a sudden and decisive political action; but!!! was it illegal? What made it illegal? OR! Was it merely good political theater and maneuvering?

It was a coup and what could possibly be legal about a coup against an elected and legally constituted government? This was a great government but it was a disaster for Israel. This would have taken "Dayton's forces" out of the hands of Fatah and placed them under the command of Hamas.

Of course the US could not have that so they pumped money, weapons and training into Fatah's forces to take over the elected government. This coup was not a complete success but it did allow Abbas to set up an illegal government in the West Bank.

(COMMENT)

You will notice that the Ben White article went on to say:

The conflict is a fight between the secular moderates of Fatah said:
Moreover, what is also ignored is the fact that Hamas have openly stated that their fight is not against Fatah per se, but against element within Fatah, notably Dahlan and his associates, who continue to work with the US and Israel.

SOURCE: ROLE OF THE MEDIA - Decoding the media’s Palestinian "civil war" by Ben White The Electronic Intifada 19 June 2007

That is true. Hamas (I think it was on the same day) gave amnesty to all members of Fatah who were not involved in the coup.

Notice that HAMAS is fighting the elements in Fatah that want to address the conflict under the Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly
Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/2625 (XXV)].

DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES said:
All States shall pursue in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control
and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.

All States shall comply in good faith with their obligations under the generally recognized principles and rules of international law with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, and shall endeavour to make the United Nations security system based on the Charter more effective.

We should remember that by Covenant, HAMAS is diametrically opposed to the Declaration of Principles, and instead, has adopted the Principle of Jihad. This is just one of the many reasons that the outside world does not embrace HAMAS. It is why Israel, the EU and the Middle East Quartet (among others) see HAMAS as counter-productive as a leadership element for the Palestinian people and an obstructionist to the cause of regional peace and security.

WTF are you talking about? You are making no sense.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't play dumb.

WTF are you talking about? You are making no sense.
(COMMENT)

HAMAS is opposed to any faction within the Palestinian Authority (PA) that even wants to considered a peace or settlement. And that is in contravention with the Declaration of Principles.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Last edited:
P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't play dumb.

WTF are you talking about? You are making no sense.
(COMMENT)

HAMAS is opposed to any faction within the Palestinian Authority (PA) that even wants to considered a peace or settlement. And that is in contravention with the Declaration of Principles.

Most Respectfully,
R

What peace or settlement? It is all blabber while Israel steals more land.

I don't get the Declaration of Principles schtick. Where does that fit?
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, it is only illegal if it is against a specific law.

It was a coup and what could possibly be legal about a coup against an elected and legally constituted government?
(COMMENT)

An attempt to achieve the right of self-determination.

The Palestinian people have the right to engage in an armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories from HAMAS and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of their country.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, it is only illegal if it is against a specific law.

It was a coup and what could possibly be legal about a coup against an elected and legally constituted government?
(COMMENT)

An attempt to achieve the right of self-determination.

The Palestinian people have the right to engage in an armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories from HAMAS and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of their country.

Most Respectfully,
R

No, Rocco, no. Try again.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I understand your defense of the Article 13 Axiom: "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

What peace or settlement? It is all blabber while Israel steals more land.
(COMMENT)

And this is merely a restatement of the Axiom. HAMAS and all those that support it, attempt to sabotage the peace negotiations, and the prophecy becomes fulfilled and you get to tell us that you told us so.

I don't get the Declaration of Principles schtick. Where does that fit?
(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/2625 (XXV)] sets the standard by which a legal government comply; chief among them:
  • All States shall pursue in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.
The HAMAS Axiom (Article 13) directly opposes the Declaration of Principles (good faith negotiations). Which also includes:
  • Refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force.
  • States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.
  • Refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines.
  • Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I kind of figured that you would not have an answer.

Well, it is only illegal if it is against a specific law.

It was a coup and what could possibly be legal about a coup against an elected and legally constituted government?
(COMMENT)

An attempt to achieve the right of self-determination.

The Palestinian people have the right to engage in an armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories from HAMAS and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of their country.
No, Rocco, no. Try again.
(COMMENT)

Since that time, the HAMAS government has not been re-elected, and has expired.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I understand your defense of the Article 13 Axiom: "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

What peace or settlement? It is all blabber while Israel steals more land.
(COMMENT)

And this is merely a restatement of the Axiom. HAMAS and all those that support it, attempt to sabotage the peace negotiations, and the prophecy becomes fulfilled and you get to tell us that you told us so.

I don't get the Declaration of Principles schtick. Where does that fit?
(COMMENT)

The Declaration of Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/2625 (XXV)] sets the standard by which a legal government comply; chief among them:
  • All States shall pursue in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.
The HAMAS Axiom (Article 13) directly opposes the Declaration of Principles (good faith negotiations). Which also includes:
  • Refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force.
  • States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.
  • Refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines.
  • Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.

Most Respectfully,
R

The failure of all those losers to find peace has nothing to do with Hamas.

I still don't get your Declaration of Principles thing. What does it have to do with Hamas defending their country?
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I kind of figured that you would not have an answer.

Well, it is only illegal if it is against a specific law.


(COMMENT)

An attempt to achieve the right of self-determination.

The Palestinian people have the right to engage in an armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories from HAMAS and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of their country.
No, Rocco, no. Try again.
(COMMENT)

Since that time, the HAMAS government has not been re-elected, and has expired.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Prime Minister and his cabinet do not have term limits. They serve until a new government is approved by parliament.
 

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