The most important right in a Democracy

[Truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/2efwz9


The study shows just how unreliable the machines we have been voting on are.

These are the machines the R congress encouraged voting officails to buy and handed out your tax dollars to encourage their purchace acrossed the nation.

Why did they do that?

All that needed to be done was to instruct the poll workers to empty the chad bins and the old ones worked fine.

 

[Annie]

I think the punch hole cards worked ok. I think paper ballots using X's would be better.

 

[Truthmatters]

The ONLY reason you saw the problems you did int Florida was the little bins that catch the punched out chads had not been emptied regularly.

There were so many people voting in that election the the chads built up quickly and people did not realise the little hole was not made as well as it should be.

The solution was so easy ad cheap.

Empty the bins and when you vote make sure the little chad gets punched out of the right hole.

So all that really needed to be done was to tell voters that.

BUT NO!

The R congress decided to spend MILLIONS on new electronic machines which have now proven complete wastes of money and now counties all over America will have to scrap the brand new machines and buy some kind of new equipment.

if it were me making the decision I would go back to the chads and just teach the poll workers to periodically EMPTY THE CHAD BINS!

Or an X on a piece of paper as you say.

 

[Alucard]

http://tinyurl.com/2efwz9


The study shows just how unreliable the machines we have been voting on are..

TM did you even read the article? The article itself said:

"NJIT noted such an event was unlikely under real election conditions"

"They're all very workable. A lot of things were taken out of context,"

I've worked the polls with these exact machines in NJ and things went flawless...

 

[Truthmatters]

By flawless you mean didnt break down?

The 33 flaws were in the printers which were not the original parts ot the equipment.

They are an attempt to fix the unauditable machines the Right Wing Owned companies who originally designed for American voting.

Why did people who design ATMs for years not to lose one fricking penny and leave an extensive paper trail design machines of rus to vote on with out ANY paper trail.

These new "Fixes" are being used by very few and have many problems themselfs.

How can I trust the next election when I have not trusted any election held on these machines and rightly so?

 

[pegwinn]

How can I trust the next election when I have not trusted any election held on these machines and rightly so?

Easy Fix.

Get rid of the paradigm that requires a secret ballot.

Walk into your polling place and prove you have the right to vote. Then locate the signature sheet with your candidates name on it. Sign in the next blank space. Go home knowing that your vote is counted.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I Love how the democrats screamed bloody murder and made a change happen and now are crying that the republicans cheated them.

 

[Annie]

I Love how the democrats screamed bloody murder and made a change happen and now are crying that the republicans cheated them.

Ummm, I've pretty much been a Republican, from about 20 on up. I still think KISS, (keep it simple, stupid), is the best action regarding elections. I want them honest.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ummm, I've pretty much been a Republican, from about 20 on up. I still think KISS, (keep it simple, stupid), is the best action regarding elections. I want them honest.

Who bitched and moaned about the 2000 election? Who DEMANDED an INSTANT fix to a non existant problem? Who is NOW complaining about that INSTANT FIX, claiming the Republicns cheated them? Oh and for the record, if the republicans control the machines, did they forget to fix the 2006 election?

 

[Annie]

Easy Fix.

Get rid of the paradigm that requires a secret ballot.

Walk into your polling place and prove you have the right to vote. Then locate the signature sheet with your candidates name on it. Sign in the next blank space. Go home knowing that your vote is counted.

How does providing proof of identification negate 'secret ballot?' Proof of ID to me means that the votes were of registered voters.

 

[Diuretic]

Easy Fix.

Get rid of the paradigm that requires a secret ballot.

Walk into your polling place and prove you have the right to vote. Then locate the signature sheet with your candidates name on it. Sign in the next blank space. Go home knowing that your vote is counted.

But...but....we - Australia - gave you the secret ballot*. We helped you make voting more democratic....you want to throw that away?






*But France had it even earlier.

 

[pegwinn]

How does providing proof of identification negate 'secret ballot?' Proof of ID to me means that the votes were of registered voters.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that as Kathi goes to the polling place she is logged in after providing proof she is a registered voter. Say two photo ID's + a voters registration card maybe? Then you simply sign in.

Pick up a clipboard with your candidates name on it. Just like a petition sheet. Sign your name on the next blank line. Voila you have just voted for whomsoever you wish.

If there is a problem, they can compare the signature on the petition to the sign in log to the signature on file where you got your voter card. No worries.

But...but....we - Australia - gave you the secret ballot*. We helped you make voting more democratic....you want to throw that away?

You did? Well thanks guy. As for myself I could care less if anyone knows who I voted for. Of course I am perfectly content with what we have. I just figure that some will never be happy until it is totally transparent.

Now, how does a secret ballot make voting more democratic?

 

[Annie]

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that as Kathi goes to the polling place she is logged in after providing proof she is a registered voter. Say two photo ID's + a voters registration card maybe? Then you simply sign in.

Pick up a clipboard with your candidates name on it. Just like a petition sheet. Sign your name on the next blank line. Voila you have just voted for whomsoever you wish.

If there is a problem, they can compare the signature on the petition to the sign in log to the signature on file where you got your voter card. No worries.




You did? Well thanks guy. As for myself I could care less if anyone knows who I voted for. Of course I am perfectly content with what we have. I just figure that some will never be happy until it is totally transparent.

Now, how does a secret ballot make voting more democratic?

In my 'dreamworld', Kathianne would go to polls, show driver's license or utility bill that matches my address. Then vote, in a simple as process as possible, (X marks the choice).

 

[Diuretic]

.....

You did? Well thanks guy. As for myself I could care less if anyone knows who I voted for. Of course I am perfectly content with what we have. I just figure that some will never be happy until it is totally transparent.

Now, how does a secret ballot make voting more democratic?

You're welcome.

A secret ballot is good for democracy because it stops voters from being threatened or bribed. I mean you might be happy with someone knowing how you voted but what if you were threatened and felt that you shouldn't comply with the threats and went ahead and voted the way you wish and then someone seeing how you voted got his mates and bashed the crap out of you for ignoring his threats? See what I mean? Or if someone bribed someone to vote a certain way, that person took the money and voted a different way and got belted etc. A secret ballot removes those aspects.

 

[pegwinn]

You're welcome.

A secret ballot is good for democracy because it stops voters from being threatened or bribed. I mean you might be happy with someone knowing how you voted but what if you were threatened and felt that you shouldn't comply with the threats and went ahead and voted the way you wish and then someone seeing how you voted got his mates and bashed the crap out of you for ignoring his threats? See what I mean? Or if someone bribed someone to vote a certain way, that person took the money and voted a different way and got belted etc. A secret ballot removes those aspects.

Nothing is impossible. But I think your scenario is very unlikely in nations with a well developed history of electoral process. Perhaps in an emerging society where an apparently free electorate (like Iraq) is just getting into the swing of voting.......

Makes no difference to me, but, my suggestion would eliminate all doubt about the winner of the contest.

 

[Diuretic]

Nothing is impossible. But I think your scenario is very unlikely in nations with a well developed history of electoral process. Perhaps in an emerging society where an apparently free electorate (like Iraq) is just getting into the swing of voting.......

Makes no difference to me, but, my suggestion would eliminate all doubt about the winner of the contest.

You're kidding. Haven't you heard of "caging"? Haven't you caught up with the corruption in various states of the electoral system in the US? Does Diebold ring a bell? I don't want to figuratively poke you in the eye but if you think it wouldn't happen in the US then I have a big bridge across this lovely big harbour I want you to have a look at, tell me if you're interested in buying it.

 

[pegwinn]

You're kidding. Haven't you heard of "caging"? Nope. Haven't you caught up with the corruption in various states of the electoral system in the US? Does Diebold ring a bell? Neither statement has resulted in a trial let alone conviction, let alone stolen election that I am aware of. I don't want to figuratively poke you in the eye but if you think it wouldn't happen in the US then I have a big bridge across this lovely big harbour I want you to have a look at, tell me if you're interested in buying it. Always up for a good land deal. If you are as paranoid about holding onto it as you are about elections.... I might get a good price.

Let's cross that bridge when we get to it

 

[Bullypulpit]

http://tinyurl.com/2efwz9


The study shows just how unreliable the machines we have been voting on are.

These are the machines the R congress encouraged voting officails to buy and handed out your tax dollars to encourage their purchace acrossed the nation.

Why did they do that?

All that needed to be done was to instruct the poll workers to empty the chad bins and the old ones worked fine.

The sad fact of the matter is that anyone in the sleaziest gambling hell in Vegas has more protections and rights to redress regarding electronic gaming machines than the average voter does with electronic voting machines.

<center><a href=http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/voting/press/nyt/2004-06-13%20NYT%20Gambling%20on%20Voting.pdf>Gambling on Voting</a></center>

And the <a href=http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:qK4SgX_DMPkJeople.csail.mit.edu/rivest/voting/press/nyt/2004-06-13%2520NYT%2520Gambling%2520on%2520Voting.pdf+gambling+on+voting&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a>same document</a> in HTML format

 

[Bullypulpit]

You're kidding. Haven't you heard of "caging"? Haven't you caught up with the corruption in various states of the electoral system in the US? Does Diebold ring a bell? I don't want to figuratively poke you in the eye but if you think it wouldn't happen in the US then I have a big bridge across this lovely big harbour I want you to have a look at, tell me if you're interested in buying it.

Greg Palast has some good info on voter caging and Rove-bot, Tim Goodman's, involvement in it in 2004.

<center><a href=http://www.gregpalast.com/raging-caging-what-the-heck-is-vote-caging-and-why-should-we-care/>Raging Caging What the heck is vote caging, and why should we care?</a></center>

 

[pegwinn]

Greg Palast has some good info on voter caging and Rove-bot, Tim Goodman's, involvement in it in 2004.

<center><a href=http://www.gregpalast.com/raging-caging-what-the-heck-is-vote-caging-and-why-should-we-care/>Raging Caging What the heck is vote caging, and why should we care?</a></center>

Never heard this term before now. This line sticks out "Why weren’t these African-American voters home when the Republican letters arrived? The homeless men were on park benches, the students were on vacation—and the soldiers were overseas."

Anyone who thinks Dems (or any other pol above the municipal level) actually give a shit about the homeless voting needs to buy Diuretics bridge. College students on vacation? Possibly but not likely. Troops? Give me a break. Every unit bigger than a platoon has a voting assistance officer who will ensure that every servicemember can and will vote if they want to.

This is just another Race Card played by one group against the other. I am soooooo tired of conspiracy theories. But, in the spirit of civilised discussion..... Can anyone point to court actions whereby this theory withstood the standards of evidence? Or barring that, a class action suit by the "disenfranchised" that actually garnered an award?

My mind is open on this, but the bs sensor is on high.