The Medicated Child

[KittenKoder]

What can I say ?---science is proven wrong by itself almost daily. Yank the heart out of that robot carrying your brain and let me know how well your brain works afterwords.

Computers need a fuel source just as much as our brains, they are just simpler machines and thus their requirements are fewer (only one fuel source). Our blood is what carries the fuel sources, moved by our hearts, through our veins. The mechanical computer uses electricity only (our bodies produce it's own using other fuels) transported from a power source (battery or power plant) to the parts with wires. The analogy is not flawed, just simplistic. Biology goes into far more detail and explains all the different processes but the concepts of robotics and computers actually mimic living beings. As a matter of fact they have been experimenting with producing simple duplicates of brains using our mechanical technology for decades, and many robotics hobbyists use an insect level computer brain in their robots (very simplistic and only capable of minimal learning). If the power source of a computer is cut, all the RAM vanishes, effectively "killing" it, the only salvation is that with mechanical brains we can save the data, on hard drives, so when the power source is restored it can reload that data, thus allowing it to be revived infinitely. The analogy actually continues much more than this, down to how muscles and hydrolics function the same. The cells in our bodies work specific jobs, just like tiny little machines, and like machines our bodies wear out eventually. So again, how are we that different beyond having a spirit or soul?

Since robotics and computers were INVENETED by the human mind how could they do anything but reflect the workings of a human mind ? Yes-your

analogy is flawed and simplistic.

and does nothing to prove that body chemistry doesn't affect ones thinking or resulting behavior.

You think that the robot analogy for the human body says that? No, it does not. The analogy does more to show that every system within the body is connected, not separate and that by altering the body chemistry you can alter brain development, though with our understanding of the brain this is not a good thing for anyone before a specific age (which varies slightly with each person and cannot be predicted accurately yet). The brain is not static until such an age and altering the physiology of someone before it does become static can only risk more harm than good.

 

[Againsheila]

YouTube - More lies from Psychiatry

Okay, obviously the drug was not working as intended from the very start and they should have gone back to the doctor IMMEDIATELY. Most anti-depressants don't start affecting the system so quickly, they usually take up to two weeks to start working. A mild form should be the first attempt.

Yes, depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and yes anti-depressants work. I know this because it worked on me. I thought I was going through the change, night sweats, nausea 24 hours a day, difficulty sleeping, even missed several periods. Tried a pregnancy test, but nope, wasn't pregnant. Went to the doctor, had several tests, no it wasn't the change...the doctor, bless her heart finally said to me, "I know what's wrong with you, you're depressed. Let's face it, you're life's the shits." Wonderful bedside manner, that doctor, but she was right. I went on Paxil. It worked. I slept more regularly, no more nausea, my periods started up again. More importantly, no more mood swings. Yes, it was a very mild dose but it made a big difference in my life. I'm still on anti-depressants, though a different one, it's still a mild dose.

Again, from personal experience, I can tell you you're wrong. More children are on meds today because more children need them. MOST parents will not put their kids on meds without good reason. It's important for the parents to find out the most they can about the meds the doctors are putting their kids on, including the side affects and it helps to find a support group. Without that support group, I wouldn't have known that one of the side effects of the drug my son was taking was a permanent side effect of tourettes. I took him off the drug when he started developing facial ticks.. the doctor said I was wrong, but later called to tell me that I was right after he talked to a pediatric-neurologist.

Doctor's don't know everything. It's up to us parents to find out as much as we can about our children and any medication prescribed by the doctors. I don't blame this mother, she did as she thought was right, but I do think, if she'd done some research, her son would be alive today. I sure wouldn't let my son out of my sight for several weeks after starting a new med, especially one that he started having side effects from the start.

 

[Againsheila]

The teacher simply didn't want to deal with 4 high energy little boys in her classroom. She preferred medicating them. It was a huge battle with the principal to get him moved out of her class, but to me, this is a huge problem.

You may want to ask to see your child's school file also. If there is anything in there that is not accurate demand that it be taken out. Once on the shit list possibly always on the shit list.

Our son is dyslexic so reading was always a struggle for him. (In his mind the letters appeared from right to left not left to right) When he was younger they passed him through three grades before anyone even suggested to have him tested. (I did not know there was even a problem).

By the time he reached junior high he suffered reprecussions from what a teachers aide's had written into his permanant file a few years before. This gal had even gone as far as to tell him he was retarded because she did not believe there was such a thing as dyslexia. One bitch was into harrassing him daily. It had gotten so bad that he was puking blood everyday in her class. This went on for weeks until I was informed. The gal told me about adding, "I'm sure he is doing this on purpose". We sent him to a specialist and they did xrays. He had a herniated esophagus. I am very thankful for the decent teachers that stood by him even though they did not gain anything but harsh reviews for their efforts. Nor did they get contract renewals. Local politics in school districts can be a booger to deal with if your child has any special needs. We finally were able to simply hire tutors for our son.

Geez, my son can throw up at will and they keep sending him home saying he's sick. When I pointed out it happens after the fun activities and before the sit down, paperwork, they finally agreed to keep him. Then, as he moved into another class it would happen every Thursday. I asked "What's happening on Thursdays that he doesn't like?" They started keeping him again.

Fact, the public schools are pretty bad. Some of the teachers shouldn't be teaching, some of them should be sainted. I don't know what to do to fix the schools, but I sure wouldn't medicate my kid just based on a teacher's say so.

 

[RodISHI]

The brain is not static at any time. Although until maturity the thought processes of the brain are still in developmental stages.

The secret life of the brain. PBS

The teen brain. PBS

 

[KittenKoder]

The brain is not static at any time. Although until maturity the thought processes of the brain are still in developmental stages.

The secret life of the brain. PBS

The teen brain. PBS

Talking relatively, should have been clearer on that in my posts, sorry.

 

[Againsheila]

The brain is not static at any time. Although until maturity the thought processes of the brain are still in developmental stages.

The secret life of the brain. PBS

The teen brain. PBS

Talking relatively, should have been clearer on that in my posts, sorry.

According to a pediatric neuropsychiatrist my son saw when he was five, brains are pretty well developed by 16 and aren't going to develop any further.

 

[KittenKoder]

The brain is not static at any time. Although until maturity the thought processes of the brain are still in developmental stages.

The secret life of the brain. PBS

The teen brain. PBS

Talking relatively, should have been clearer on that in my posts, sorry.

According to a pediatric neuropsychiatrist my son saw when he was five, brains are pretty well developed by 16 and aren't going to develop any further.

However, as was pointed out, every living thing is different even within the same species. This is why 18 was a decent point to determine adulthood, it's the high end of the average. Some to extend even beyond that, but the expensive testing required to determine that would not be cost effective.

 

[RodISHI]

Geez, my son can throw up at will and they keep sending him home saying he's sick. When I pointed out it happens after the fun activities and before the sit down, paperwork, they finally agreed to keep him. Then, as he moved into another class it would happen every Thursday. I asked "What's happening on Thursdays that he doesn't like?" They started keeping him again.

Fact, the public schools are pretty bad. Some of the teachers shouldn't be teaching, some of them should be sainted. I don't know what to do to fix the schools, but I sure wouldn't medicate my kid just based on a teacher's say so.

There are some very fine teachers and administrators in the system. I would not discount them all by the tacky actions of a few. Truth is it was a fifty fifty situation for us and I was active in the care and instruction of my children's lives. Not everyone has that ability or opportunity to be so active in their childrens lives. We were fortunate enough to meet a few angels along the way that assisted in helping my son to learn how to become an overcomer. I count that all as a blessing.

I sure would not simply medicate a child just because they seem unmanagible or because they have temper tantrums. Then again it seems like common sense should rule but that is not always the case.

My one and only nephew was a challenge. He could not get Rod to pay attention to his inquiry of where his aunt (me) was at one day. On the third inquiry Rod had still not answered him and then he looked up from what he was working on. The kid had a 20 inch rachet extension in his hands in a pose that was aiming the extension for Rod's head if he did not get an answer. Rod told him, "Put that thing down before I shove it up your ass". The nephew dropped it and said sweetly, "Where's my aunt?" He was five. My brother had recently gotten married and the kid pulled a similar action on one of her six foot teens. They stuck him in a mental institution for awhile.


Here is the deal. He never had anyone to teach him how to interact socially or teach him manners or moral responsibilities. His mom was busy making her money literally on a main street hooking. His mom learned that was the way to make a buck from her mom. That is the way life goes most generally here. Generally many problems can be a learned behavior. Children can also pick up behavior problems in public settings. Our son learned to hide in the bushes to smoke from an older child who brought cigs from home in Headstart. His son now learns from his older siblings and his mom the former stripper?? Can our son eventually help his son overcome whatever problems his son may need to overcome? I sure hope so and I believe he can.

The grandbaby was into temper tantrums early on. I would not let him crawl into my lap one day with a cup of milk in his hands. I told him. Nope you ain't spilling that in my lap. He puckered up and looked as if he was going to scream. He then decided grandma did not fall for that shit. His face changed and he reach over and handed me his milk so he could get into my lap. That is the reasoning power of a 13 month old babe.

 

[alan1]

The Medicated Child

Please watch this PBS report when you have an hour to spare, FRONTLINE: the medicated child | PBS

I’m not a doctor, and neither of my kids was ever suspected of or diagnosed with any type of mental condition. What I do have is some other types of personal involvement, and just some common sense.

My ex-wife was diagnosed as being bi-polar a few years ago. She is currently on medication that allows her to function as a normal adult. I personally just thought that she was an alcoholic prior to the diagnosis, and so did her family, and even herself.
(Just a quick and funny side note to this is that when my oldest daughter was 16 she once told me “Mom is fucking crazy”. That was the first time I ever heard one of my children use the F word.)
My ex-wife was 40 years old before she was eventually diagnosed as being bi-polar. She had been in rehab clinics numerous times and had seen many psychiatrists and psychologists over the years before this diagnosis came about.
So, my question is, how the hell do you diagnose a child as being bi-polar?

I once dated a woman that had both her sons under treatment for ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). The boys were 8 and 11, and she had a 6 year old daughter. The daughter was not under medical treatment. My daughters were 9 and 11 at the time. Me having children at that age, I also knew quite few other parents with children in the same age group. Personally, I never thought her boys were much different in behavior than the other boys I knew that were that age. Except when she had them drugged up. Shortly after she gave them their meds, they were like little zombies. In the mornings, prior to them taking their drugs, they were loud, somewhat rambunctious, full of mischief and just plain fun to talk to. Once those meds kicked in, they were completely different children.

Once, when she had to go out of town for a weekend working seminar, I took care of her kids for the weekend. Me, not being in the routine of medicating kids, I forgot to give them their meds Saturday morning. And, I forgot Saturday evening as well. I’m telling you, these boys were not out of control, and didn’t require any special treatment without their drugs. Sunday morning I remembered I was supposed to give them medication. The 11 year old took his medication. I think more out of habit and expectation than for any other reason. But, the 9 year old challenged me. He didn’t want to take the meds. And you know what, he wasn’t just being obstinate. I paraphrase here, but this is what he told me,
I didn’t take my medicine yesterday and nothing bad happened. You didn’t have to spank me for being bad, I didn’t get in fights with my brother or sister. I played nice with the kids across the street. I didn’t yell or scream or throw any temper tantrums. Yesterday was the best day ever, and I want to have another day just like it. I don’t think I can if you make me take those pills.

Damn, I almost cried. And, I didn’t make him take the pills. And he was just fine for the rest of the day.

His mother was pissed at me when she got home Sunday evening and I told her about it. She insisted that he needed the meds to control his behavior. I flat out told her that I couldn’t date somebody that wanted to drug her children into being little zombies just so she didn’t have to be an active, involved and engaged parent. That was the end of our relationship.

So, back to the above linked broadcast. While I certainly believe that some children do have emotional and mental issues that need to be treated, I am also firmly of the opinion that in today’s current environment, childhood emotional and mental issues are being extremely overly diagnosed and treated. What the hell has changed since I was 10 years old? 35 years ago there were almost no kids being drugged for ADHD, or, as they simply called it back then, hyperactivity.

I’ll probably get some shit for this, but dammit, we as a society need to quit drugging our children and start being parents. You can’t throw your kids into the easy-bake oven of life and expect them to turn out like some sort of celluloid hero.

My oldest son's first diagnoses was ADHD, now it's Asperger's Syndrome. In first grade, without the medication, he couldn't sit still for 5 minutes, I know, I went and observed. With the medication, he was much better behaved. I didn't give him the medication over any of the breaks or the weekends, only during school when he would have to sit and pay attention. By 3rd grade, he was developing facial ticks, I discovered the medication he was on could cause tourette's syndrom so I took him off it. He hasn't been on medication since.

I don't think most parents medicate their children unnecessarily. Believe me, it was a difficult decision for me. It was just as difficult deciding to take him off his meds. At this point in time, neither of my autistic children are on regular meds, but I do have some anti psychotic medication for my youngest when he gets upset. Trust me, you don't want to see a temper tantrum by a 240 pound 6 ft tall 2 year old.

Oh, and boy are more than 4 times as likely to suffer from neurobiological disorders like ADHD and autism than girls.

AgainSheila,
I know that there are children that have things like ADD, ADHD and other illnesses. Not all of them are medicated out of convenience, but I think many are.

 

[eots]

its a complete fraud..used to give parents the validation they seek..that it is not their fault

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcgYQfvjMD8[/ame]

 

[Againsheila]

its a complete fraud..used to give parents the validation they seek..that it is not their fault

YouTube - Even Doctors Can't Describe ADD/ADHD

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

 

[KittenKoder]

Psychological disorders have little effect on intellect in most cases.

 

[eots]

its a complete fraud..used to give parents the validation they seek..that it is not their fault

YouTube - Even Doctors Can't Describe ADD/ADHD

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on narcoleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered theIr brains physically...NONE...ZERO% OF THE CHILDREN TESTED WITH ADHD...that had never received medication should any physical brain abnormalities..FACT

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

 

[Againsheila]

Psychological disorders have little effect on intellect in most cases.

ADHD, Autism, etc., are not psychological disorders, they are neurobiological disorders, which means there is a physical difference in the brain. Again, the IQs worldwide are on a bell curve with the majority having "normal" intelligence and a few super intelligent people and a few, under intelligent people. For those with Neurobiological disorders, the intelligence is on a straight line, which means 1/3 of them are super intelligent, 1/3 have normal intelligence and 1/3 are mentally retarded. My oldest is very smart, my youngest is mentally retarded. They are on both ends of the autism spectrum.

My oldest didn't start college until last Sept at the age of 24, he wasn't socially ready. My youngest is still in diapers at the age of 21.

I'm tired of people who know very little to nothing on the subject spouting off. I'm sick of people who attack parents who medicate their children and I'm sick of people who claim that problems caused by these neurobiological disorders are just "boys being boys." The ultimate insult is when your friend says "If you spanked him more often, wouldn't he behave more normal?" Like spanking is going to cure autism or adhd.

Maybe I'm over sensitive, but there is too much misinformation out there to let it go without challenging it.

 

[Againsheila]

its a complete fraud..used to give parents the validation they seek..that it is not their fault

YouTube - Even Doctors Can't Describe ADD/ADHD

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on neuroleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered there brains physically

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

I know people who have children with ADHD and have never been put on the drugs...there goes your uninformed opinion.

READ the book, then we'll talk.

 

[KittenKoder]

Psychological disorders have little effect on intellect in most cases.

ADHD, Autism, etc., are not psychological disorders, they are neurobiological disorders, which means there is a physical difference in the brain. Again, the IQs worldwide are on a bell curve with the majority having "normal" intelligence and a few super intelligent people and a few, under intelligent people. For those with Neurobiological disorders, the intelligence is on a straight line, which means 1/3 of them are super intelligent, 1/3 have normal intelligence and 1/3 are mentally retarded. My oldest is very smart, my youngest is mentally retarded. They are on both ends of the autism spectrum.

My oldest didn't start college until last Sept at the age of 24, he wasn't socially ready. My youngest is still in diapers at the age of 21.

I'm tired of people who know very little to nothing on the subject spouting off. I'm sick of people who attack parents who medicate their children and I'm sick of people who claim that problems caused by these neurobiological disorders are just "boys being boys." The ultimate insult is when your friend says "If you spanked him more often, wouldn't he behave more normal?" Like spanking is going to cure autism or adhd.

Maybe I'm over sensitive, but there is too much misinformation out there to let it go without challenging it.

Neurological disorders do as well. The tests for intellect are flawed in some ways because they do not account for such disorders even though by definition they should.

 

[Valerie]

its a complete fraud..used to give parents the validation they seek..that it is not their fault

YouTube - Even Doctors Can't Describe ADD/ADHD

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on narcoleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered there brains physically...NONE...ZERO% OF THE CHILDREN TESTED WITH ADHD...that had never received medication should any physical brain abnormalities..FACT

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

I think there is actually a chemistry level that measures bipolar disorder?

 

[dilloduck]

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on neuroleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered there brains physically

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

I know people who have children with ADHD and have never been put on the drugs...there goes your uninformed opinion.

READ the book, then we'll talk.

He has to wait until it comes out on Alex Jones or youtube first.

 

[eots]

There are physical differences in the brains of people with adhd vs "normal" people. Read a book called Neurobiological Disorders for Children and Adolescence.

BTW, my kid, originally diagnosed with ADHD in Kindergarden is now on the Dean's List in college.

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on neuroleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered there brains physically

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

I know people who have children with ADHD and have never been put on the drugs...there goes your uninformed opinion.

READ the book, then we'll talk.

I read the study and its peer reviews !..go ask your doctor...your point is ..ponitless..so what if you know children labeled adhd without medication that means ..nothing...the point is their brains show no physical abnormalities..there is no diagnostic test..it is all opinion and subjective these are just the facts...the statement you made is false

 

[dilloduck]

bullshit there is...small problem with that research...all the children tested where ....already on neuroleptic drugs..its the drugs that altered there brains physically

...I REPEAT..THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC TEST FOR MENTAL ILLNESS

I know people who have children with ADHD and have never been put on the drugs...there goes your uninformed opinion.

READ the book, then we'll talk.

I read the study and its peer reviews !..go ask your doctor...your point is ..ponitless..so what if you know children labeled adhd without medication that means ..nothing...the point is their brains show no physical abnormalities..there is no diagnostic test..it is all opinion and subjective these are just the facts...the statement you made is false

Hurray ! Mental illness doesn't exist !!!!