ajwps
Active Member
Well, Halleluiah, and Phew! What a struggle. I really think we should agree on the text under discussion BEFORE we attempt to debate its meaning. In any event, if you agree that the verse at hand is not spoken by Jesus to His disciples as a direct command, "Come slay My enemies before me right now," then you have to remove this verse from your list of evidence that Jesus, during His ministry, called for slaying people, implying that during His earthly ministry Jesus was an insurgent.
Dont be so certain as yet about who said what about slaying my enemies in front of me in the Luke verse. You said, and I quote, Walwor I will say again, that the nobleman in the parable is Jesus at His second coming- an event which is still in the future, at the culmination of Armageddon.
In the parable, if it is really Jesus abeit the Nobleman in the second coming saying that he, Jesus Christ, in a future return wants his enemies slain in front of him because they do not believe that he is god or that they hoard funds given to them by Jesus, what is the lesson Christ was teaching in order to get a message across in his parable?
Your other point, that Christians later used this verse to justify persecuting or slaying Jews, may be true, but you can't apply meaning to what someone says based on how others interpret it.
Why not? Christianity for the most part has interpreted this Luke verse as it reads in the parable of Jesus and later being the Nobleman wanting to slay his enemies (the Jews) because they refuse to believe a mans word that he is a god. In the second part of this statement, how can I apply meaning to what someone (you) says based on how you interpet it?
I prefer, and so do many Christians who support Israel, to look not at what Scriptural verses have been interpreted as, but what they actually say and mean. This may be a position unique to this place and time in history, but never too late, I say.
Your statement makes very little sense to me. Jesus emnity toward his Jewish enemies who refuse to believe his divinity and possible hoard money that he has given them (parable understanding). Why do you think Christians support Israel now? How can Christianity support 1) those who allegedly killed Christ 2) who do not believe that he was anything but an ordinary man or 3) are the sons of the devil or Satan? Could it possibly be for another reason like the New Testament prophecy of Christ can only return for his second coming without Israel being in the hands of the Jews and the Temple being rebuilt? Is that the real reason?
If we continue this discussion at all, let it be under a different or new thread, as I am tired of seeing the name of the originator of this thread every time I come here to read your responses, and his so-called "Great joke" which is probably the stupidest thing I've read on this board.
Dont be so certain as yet about who said what about slaying my enemies in front of me in the Luke verse. You said, and I quote, Walwor I will say again, that the nobleman in the parable is Jesus at His second coming- an event which is still in the future, at the culmination of Armageddon.
In the parable, if it is really Jesus abeit the Nobleman in the second coming saying that he, Jesus Christ, in a future return wants his enemies slain in front of him because they do not believe that he is god or that they hoard funds given to them by Jesus, what is the lesson Christ was teaching in order to get a message across in his parable?
Your other point, that Christians later used this verse to justify persecuting or slaying Jews, may be true, but you can't apply meaning to what someone says based on how others interpret it.
Why not? Christianity for the most part has interpreted this Luke verse as it reads in the parable of Jesus and later being the Nobleman wanting to slay his enemies (the Jews) because they refuse to believe a mans word that he is a god. In the second part of this statement, how can I apply meaning to what someone (you) says based on how you interpet it?
I prefer, and so do many Christians who support Israel, to look not at what Scriptural verses have been interpreted as, but what they actually say and mean. This may be a position unique to this place and time in history, but never too late, I say.
Your statement makes very little sense to me. Jesus emnity toward his Jewish enemies who refuse to believe his divinity and possible hoard money that he has given them (parable understanding). Why do you think Christians support Israel now? How can Christianity support 1) those who allegedly killed Christ 2) who do not believe that he was anything but an ordinary man or 3) are the sons of the devil or Satan? Could it possibly be for another reason like the New Testament prophecy of Christ can only return for his second coming without Israel being in the hands of the Jews and the Temple being rebuilt? Is that the real reason?
If we continue this discussion at all, let it be under a different or new thread, as I am tired of seeing the name of the originator of this thread every time I come here to read your responses, and his so-called "Great joke" which is probably the stupidest thing I've read on this board.
