The Marines get it

CSM

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2004
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Northeast US
Los Angeles Times
October 14, 2005

Marines Hit Recruiting Goal, Won't Lower Bar

By Tony Perry, Times Staff Writer

SAN DIEGO — Unlike the Army, the Marine Corps met its national recruiting goals for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30 and has no plans to lower its standards for recruits, officials said.

The Marine Corps achieved 102% of its goal for enlistments in the reserves and 100% of its goal for active-duty enlistments, according to figures released by the Defense Department.

The Army's figures were 84% for the Army Reserve, 80% for the National Guard, and 92% for its active-duty force. As the nation's largest service, the Army needs to attract a larger number of recruits than the Marine Corps, the Navy or the Air Force.

To aid in its recruitment program, the Army announced last week that it had increased from 2% to 4% the percentage of recruits it would accept who score near the bottom of the military aptitude test, so-called Category IV recruits.

The Marine Corps will continue restricting Category IV recruits to 1% of the total, officials said.

Also, Army officials said they were lowering from 67% to 60% the Army's goal for signing recruits who scored in the top half on the aptitude test.

The Marine goal remains 63%. In the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 69.5% of Marine recruits scored in the top half of the test, said Master Sgt. James Edwards of the recruiting command at Quantico, Va.

With casualties mounting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army and Marines have found recruiting more difficult. Overcoming opposition from parents of potential recruits is often the biggest challenge, officials said.

Both services have added recruiters. For several months this year the Marine Corps missed its monthly goal for recruits.

Military sociologist David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland, said the Army's recruiting problems are partly due to a decade-long decline in enlistments among African Americans, who have come to doubt whether the military is an equal-opportunity employer.

The Marine Corps has a smaller percentage of African Americans in its ranks and thus is not as affected by the decline, Segal said. African Americans make up 23% of the Army and 12% of the Marine Corps, according to a recent Government Accountability Office study.

Also, Segal said the Marine Corps has done a better job of overcoming opposition among parents of all races to having their children enlist. "My sense is that more Marines come from Marine families so the parents are already on board," he said.

Marine recruiters send a video to the parents of would-be recruits explaining how boot camp will make their son or daughter more physically fit and more mature. School counselors are invited to visit boot camps at San Diego and Parris Island, S.C.

For fiscal 2005, the Marine Corps had recruited 8,350 men and women for the reserves and 32,955 for the active-duty force. Of the four services, only the Army missed its active-duty recruiting goal. The Army had hoped to enlist 80,000 recruits but fell short at 73,373.

The Air Force Reserve (113%) and Marine Reserve (102%) exceeded their recruitment goals.

The Army and Marine Corps differ in their advertising pitches to potential recruits.

In their pop-up ads on the Internet, for example, the Army says, "Join the U.S. Army. Discover all the opportunities the U.S. Army has to offer," while the Marine Corps asks "Do you have what it takes? Contact a Marine recruiter."

In one of the Army's television ads, an African American youth tells his mother he is enlisting so that he can earn money for college.

In a TV ad that debuted Oct. 1, the Marines emphasize the demands of boot camp.

"The main thing we show, or sell, if you will, to young men and women are the intangibles: self-discipline, service to country, service to team," said Maj. Joe Kloppel, spokesman for the Western Recruiting Region based in San Diego.

"Those things don't change with the economy," he said.
 
one of my neighbours applied to the Marines. He unfortunatly had a drug
habbit. Crystal Meth. He failed his first drug test. THe Marine Lt. in
command of recruiting here in Boise gave him the advice to drink
a lot of Cranberry juice and vinegar mix and not do the drugs.

He did and passed the drug test on the 2nd try. Then he was in
the weekend preparation thing with the Marines.

He was scheduled to go to bootcamp. He still continued his drug habbit.
Before bootcamp the Marines did another drug test. He failed
again and was dishonoably discharged.

That guy also had a criminal youth record and an outstanding warrant
from another state that caught up with him later.

It seems to me that all the talk about high standard his
less then truthfull.

The events I described happened in Winter 2004.
 
How is that not high standards, they caught him doing drugs when he was told not to and was kicked out.


Sounds to me like they're doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing.
 
I was surprised that after he failed the first drug test they told
him how to clean his system and give him another one.

I am sure the official regulations don't allow for that leeway.
 
nosarcasm said:
I was surprised that after he failed the first drug test they told
him how to clean his system and give him another one.

I am sure the official regulations don't allow for that leeway.

I'm very surprised. The Marines are not in a shortage for enlistment, there is no need to lower their standards. Each Marine recruiter tells me that they were told to never enlist a man they wouldn't want to serve with, or who they don't think can be a Marine.
 
well the person in question is a good guy per se, and fortunatly in
jail beat the drug problem and does neither take drugs nor drink anymore.
Maybe they just wanted to give him a chance. Its hard
to expolate from one sample on the population of applicants.

I have read in the press about US army recruiters that
got in trouble for not meeting the quota. THis probably encouraged
their transgressions.

It still remains to be seen if the armed forces can attract enough recruits
for the continued war effort. Raising benefits has already attracted
some new recruits.
 
nosarcasm said:
I was surprised that after he failed the first drug test they told
him how to clean his system and give him another one.

I am sure the official regulations don't allow for that leeway.

It's called giving someone an opportunity to get out of their rut. Had the applicant been sincere and discontinued his drug use, th eopportunity to change his life was there. He obviously was not sincere, and he didn't get a second break.

A lot of us took that opportunity and have never looked back.

Point is, you have to want to be a Marine more than you want to be a piece a shit. If you do, they will put your ass to work, but they will also take better care of you than any other branch of service, IMO.
 
nosarcasm said:
one of my neighbours applied to the Marines. He unfortunatly had a drug habbit. Crystal Meth. He failed his first drug test. THe Marine Lt. in command of recruiting here in Boise gave him the advice to drink a lot of Cranberry juice and vinegar mix and not do the drugs.

The first test is a prelim. The question is, had he taken an oath yet? Likely not. The Lieutenant was cutting him a break, there is always a second test just to verify the first.

He did and passed the drug test on the 2nd try. Then he was in
the weekend preparation thing with the Marines.

He was scheduled to go to bootcamp. He still continued his drug habbit.
Before bootcamp the Marines did another drug test. He failed
again and was dishonoably discharged.

Failing his second test was indicative of a fraudulent enlistment. Your friend didn't want to be a Marine. He wanted a pretty uniform, the ability to attract beautiful women by the dozen, and a paycheck. He wasn't dishonorably discharged either. You have to be a Marine first, then fuck up, then get a Court Martial. He got voided.

That guy also had a criminal youth record and an outstanding warrant
from another state that caught up with him later. Uh Yeah. Real stellar performer here. Looks like bombing the drug test was the best thing for him.

It seems to me that all the talk about high standard his less then truthful. Where do you get that? IF the discussion of standards is bogus, he'd have passed the second test using the recruiters sample and his convictions would have run under an SSN that was one digit off. I think you are confused.
The events I described happened in Winter 2004.


Lowering standards allows people to feel better about themselves for no good reason. It also makes them easier targets and contributes to increased SGLI payments.
 
It seems to me that all the talk about high standard his less then truthful. Where do you get that? IF the discussion of standards is bogus, he'd have passed the second test using the recruiters sample and his convictions would have run under an SSN that was one digit off. I think you are confused.

Had he shipped, he'd have been dropped once the results of his ENTNAC came back. If nothing else, he'd have been put on admin hold until he resolved his legal issue IF it was simply paying a fine. If he had to appear, his ass would be going home.

At any rate it's just a admin discharge for fraudulent enlistment; which btw, DOES carry a max 5 years in prison and $10k fine under the USC for making a false statment on an official US gov't document. I've never seen anyone prosecuted for it though.
 
GunnyL said:
Had he shipped, he'd have been dropped once the results of his ENTNAC came back. If nothing else, he'd have been put on admin hold until he resolved his legal issue IF it was simply paying a fine. If he had to appear, his ass would be going home.

I didn't wanna get into the rest of it as the asserter was already in over his head, and trying to tread water and hold an ACME anvil in his teeth. But, like the man says....... YOU, are correct sir!

Birthday coming up, you going to the ball?
 
pegwinn said:
I didn't wanna get into the rest of it as the asserter was already in over his head, and trying to tread water and hold an ACME anvil in his teeth. But, like the man says....... YOU, are correct sir!

Birthday coming up, you going to the ball?

I really haven't thought about it. A friend of mine goes every year to one his boss has down around Corpus, but I haven't been since the year before I retired. If the opportunity avails, I may do that.

The only real interaction between myself and the Marine Corps since I retired is I beat them out of a t-shirt at the rodeo in Feb by doing 20 pullups. SInce they had some poolees and applicants around I'm sure they got more than their money's worth of mileage out of that.
 
GunnyL said:
I really haven't thought about it. A friend of mine goes every year to one his boss has down around Corpus, but I haven't been since the year before I retired. If the opportunity avails, I may do that.

The only real interaction between myself and the Marine Corps since I retired is I beat them out of a t-shirt at the rodeo in Feb by doing 20 pullups. SInce they had some poolees and applicants around I'm sure they got more than their money's worth of mileage out of that.

Well, I'm a rookie at this retiree stuff. I still chew my own ass if I look in the mirror and the mustache is out of regs. Meaning this will be my second ball since retirement two years ago. Guest of my kid no less. I no longer PT for shirts and caps. I walk into the recruiters office and announce my presence. That's usually good for coffee and a cap or shirt. If they wanna play tough I threaten to start with the "when I was........" sea stories. Gets em every time.
 
pegwinn said:
Well, I'm a rookie at this retiree stuff. I still chew my own ass if I look in the mirror and the mustache is out of regs. Meaning this will be my second ball since retirement two years ago. Guest of my kid no less. I no longer PT for shirts and caps. I walk into the recruiters office and announce my presence. That's usually good for coffee and a cap or shirt. If they wanna play tough I threaten to start with the "when I was........" sea stories. Gets em every time.
I do the same thing! Of course, I have two sons in the Army (one E-7; one E-6) so I get lots of insight (and shirts, hats, pens, etc) from them. Other folks hate it when we get to talking becuase we get into the Army lingo and bystanders have no idea what the heck we are talking about. When the two younguns give me a hard time I regale them with war stories too...they usually begin with "When I was your age....." . Both of them usually surrender shortly thereafter.
 
pegwinn said:
Well, I'm a rookie at this retiree stuff. I still chew my own ass if I look in the mirror and the mustache is out of regs. Meaning this will be my second ball since retirement two years ago. Guest of my kid no less. I no longer PT for shirts and caps. I walk into the recruiters office and announce my presence. That's usually good for coffee and a cap or shirt. If they wanna play tough I threaten to start with the "when I was........" sea stories. Gets em every time.

In all actuality, the purpose to the pullups was a $50. bet with a former Marine buddy of mine. It was spur of the moment. considering I had inbibed liberally during the rodeo and just minutes prior to was pretty soused.

The T-shirt was gravy! I'll bust out twenty for $50. any time.

I've been retired five years and really have just not had the desire to go around the military since.
 
GunnyL said:
The T-shirt was gravy! I'll bust out twenty for $50. any time.

I've been retired five years and really have just not had the desire to go around the military since.

Yeah for 50 I'd kip out 20. For 75 I'd do it the hard way. I like going around the military. It's like haveing grandkids. I get to socialize, but I don't have to perform the bullshit parts.
 

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